00:00:23 voy4g3r2: well ya ;) 00:00:59 what's the lib neutral way of adding privilege escalation to a program i'm making? like if i don't wanna expect the user to use sudo, but doas or anything that does priv esc 00:01:07 lw: it was always supposed to be /usr/local/share/man (see hier(7)), just that the mostly useless variables in the ports tree were wrong and so most ports were wrong as they used those variables 00:01:33 <_xor> ah 00:01:39 * _xor heads to hier(7) 00:05:41 .net core also doesn't support freebsd arm64 (at least last time i looked) but that's more understandable since it's not meant to be portable outside of the MS-supported platforms 00:07:13 So, Windows and Linux? 00:07:23 and Mac 00:07:33 ah, right 00:13:33 What about Solaris? WHAT ABOUT THAT.? 00:14:00 I did see sunos being mentioned. didn't really look at the arch's. 00:14:09 will check i a min 00:14:42 was just rebooting the RPi, but wifi suuuucks with 14.0. Using a supported wifi USB dongle thingy 00:15:20 takes forever to set the IP stuff, even though it will get an offer very fast. 00:15:49 no idea if oracle cares for that for java support, but pretty sure MS doesn't care if .net core supports solaris 00:16:50 but for the java thingy I'm having issues with, if it supports Tier 1 archs then Oracle should support aarch64 now as well. 00:17:15 or at least in the latest OpenJDK. this uses 17, not sure what the current stable is 00:20:32 and the extra netif restart to get network up 00:20:55 I need to test if it's a lagg thing or not 00:22:52 meena: sunos has even sparc and sparcv9 support 00:24:30 no solaris at all 00:24:47 surely sunos refers to solaris, i doubt it runs on sunos4 00:25:14 hehe yeah, that was my idea as well. but I thought both were used? 00:25:43 https://bsd.to/RHBY 00:25:44 Title: dpaste/RHBY (Plain Text) 01:27:22 Hello 01:30:33 * meena whispers sweet nothings about sub-packages to lw: https://github.com/ihabunek/toot/issues/324#issuecomment-1901278036 01:30:34 Title: Sixels or Unicode image previews · Issue #324 · ihabunek/toot · GitHub 01:32:05 handbook says thin jails are less secure because they share base and i think processes aren't as isolated maybe? but so how likely are thin jail escapes? 01:35:00 alepzi: can you elaborate on your thinking process there, about why you think "processes aren't as isolated maybe?" 01:35:59 trying to imagine how you got the is making me very confused, so I need you to explain this before we go anywhere else 01:36:53 "Disadvantages of Thin Jails" section in https://docs.freebsd.org/en/books/handbook/jails/#thin-jails 01:36:54 Title: Chapter 17. Jails and Containers | FreeBSD Documentation Portal 01:37:08 first 2 points 01:39:01 and "The jail can be thought of as an almost complete standalone FreeBSD installation, but running within the confines of the host system. This isolation ensures that the processes within the jail are kept separate from those on the host and other jails." in https://docs.freebsd.org/en/books/handbook/jails/#thick-jails 01:39:02 Title: Chapter 17. Jails and Containers | FreeBSD Documentation Portal 01:39:37 you realise this is strictly talking about Filesystem resources, right? 01:40:09 i mean it's talking about processes so wtf does that have to do with filesystem resources? 01:40:19 imo "processes" implies shared memory 01:40:52 like a way for a jailed process to access the running memory of the host or other jails 01:41:26 a jail is, at its core, a (set of) process(es) that are running in fancy chroot 01:42:37 like any other container technology it starts from Filesystem isolation, then adds process isolation, then network isolation and so on 01:43:05 meena: i'm not sure that's ever going to be merged because development of the tui has moved to tooi. but i'll consider it if tooi gets image support, ivan was working on it at one point 01:43:20 ya and i'm talking about the process isolation 01:45:22 alepzi: thick vs think jails is strictly about the nature of the Filesystem isolation. it can affect executables, it could affect what resources those executables see or can manipulate, but it has nothing to do with a process 01:45:45 but doesn't fs imply process too? 01:45:58 there are actually releases for tooi now so i could port that, but i think it makes more sense to hold off until it's more mature, we haven't even decided where the config file should live yet 01:47:26 a process is an executable, or a routine that is loaded into memory and executed on the CPU. and yes, most of those things are loaded from the Filesystem, but in unix, if you modify a running process' executable, that does nothing until it restarts 01:47:34 i do need to do subpackages for audio/pulseaudio at some point though 01:47:58 of toot?? 01:48:13 ?? no, for the jack output module in PA :-) 01:48:20 ok well thin jails *are* less secure than thick jails somehow, right? 01:48:59 alepzi: forget thin jails and thick jails for a week or three, and focus on understanding jails 01:49:29 and i am but respectfully i have a right to ask questions even if you don't see the point 01:50:52 does sys/queue.h not do arrays? i'm sure this was added at some point, but it doesn't seem to exist 01:51:41 it's not that i don't see the point, or maybe it it's like that, but to me it feels like you haven't quite grasped that a jail is, first and foremost, just a bunch of processes, isolated from other bunches of processes, at the kernel level. 01:52:36 ya and i'm asking questions to learn specifically more about "isolated from other bunches of processes" 01:52:45 coulda been answered by now too heh 01:55:16 for j in (seq 1000) 01:55:20 sudo -H jail -c persist path=/rescue 01:55:23 end 01:57:19 you can jexec into any of these 1000 jails (or into every), and try to find out what you can find out about the host, and what you can find out about the other jails 01:59:02 1000 must be thin jails because that's minimum 1TB just for jails to have their own base each 01:59:33 do you remember what kevans told you about that? 01:59:45 "thin" and "thick" jails are just terms the handbook made up, they don't exist in concrete terms in the OS itself 02:00:27 ya i'm talking about the pattern the handbook teaches. a shared base vs a duplicate base 02:00:59 read that loop, tell me what it does. 02:02:27 run the jail in jail's home 02:02:58 run which jail? where? what's running in that jail? 02:03:02 there's no target user so i guess that's root 02:03:17 -c creates a new jail 02:03:46 complete your thoughts, write them down, then test it 02:03:46 persist makes jail stick around 02:04:17 i mean i don't get your sidequests i'm just asking a few questions about jails after reading the whole handbook page on it and you're playing games 02:05:12 handbook says a disadvantage of thin jails is security and you wouldn't acknowledge that so i just don't get what your angle is 02:07:49 I'm giving you this sidequest because you don't seem (my observation) to understand what a jail is. any attempts from me to explain have been fruitless you keep asking the same questions 02:08:13 I want you to understand what a jail is, first. 02:09:26 So, think about that loop. formulate your hypothesis(es) (one of them was that it's gonna use 1TB (of what?)) and test them 02:10:05 no i'll ask my question elsewhere where ppl aren't so arrogant to ignore someone and tell them what's what 02:10:26 🤷🏻‍♀️ 02:13:10 it's basic engineering. you can apply it to learning: what's your thesis about this thing? how do you test if your thesis maps to its reality. if it doesn't, how do you find a better thesis 02:15:34 I have already answered your question that thick vs thin only concerns how you manage Filesystem isolation between jails, but you keep asking the same question. take a few hours away from it, and come back fresh at it 02:19:38 if jails run a process how do you jail a node.js app that uses nginx to reverse proxy and the nodejs? can it be self-contained in the jail? 02:20:52 that's something i would (and do) separate 02:21:13 why? 02:22:54 I run this IRC sever in a jail. it's a nodejs app. It's got its own Filesystem for config and uploads and for an SQLite database, abd it only listens on a local network 02:23:46 if you separate everything into its own jail how do you network them? 02:23:48 vnet? 02:25:33 In front of that, i have Apache httpd as terminating TLS proxy, running in its own jail. the only jail that gets a public IP routed / NATed. it runs no billions lines of random JavaScript, just mod_proxy, mod_ssl (mod_md) and mod_security 02:26:12 they talk to each other via an internal network 02:26:56 https://codeberg.org/pkgbase/website/src/branch/main/howto/jails.md 02:26:57 Title: website/howto/jails.md at main - pkgbase/website - Codeberg.org 02:28:38 this is a bit outdated, but the gist is still largely exactly the same as my current setup 02:29:29 I've gotten rid of puppet and that's now a couple lines of shell script 02:31:50 * meena —> sleep. 03:04:59 kevans: found another fun netlink thing: it only aligns data to 4 bytes, so the 8-byte values are misaligned https://www.le-fay.org/tmp/30d/BQ9p3H.txt 03:05:27 this seems to be by design: /usr/include/netlink/netlink.h:#defineNL_ITEM_ALIGN_SIZEsizeof(uint32_t) 03:09:54 (unless there's something i'm meant to be doing to make it align properly...) 03:23:09 hrm.. this mandoc -Tlint is showing a whole bunch of stuff.. 03:23:17 must focus, links important.. clean up second 04:49:54 oh no, we don't have LeakSanitizer on FreeBSD? but it's on NetBSD :-( 04:52:00 the interface giving you headaches still? 04:52:08 did you get to resolve the hash map frustrations 04:53:43 i ignored that for now and just used a linked list, might revisit later 04:56:16 hrm a fortran reference in gprof 04:56:45 f77(1) in gprof man page.. but does not look like f77 has been in freebsd since 4.0 04:56:59 ah, jemalloc apparently has some sort of built-in leak detection 04:58:02 weird f77 -> g77 GNU fortran 04:59:02 so from freebsd 4.0 -> freebsd 6.4 it existed.. freebsd 7.0 g77/f77 is gone from base 05:00:02 i will chalk this up to, not touching fortran.. next :) 05:10:06 lw: beyond checking man.freebsd.org would you recommend any sources to see PREVIOUS version of man pages for freebsd? 05:10:52 i am trying to confirm/deny hskbd(4) in hidbus(4) man page and going through msn.freebsd.org i do not see that it EVER existed... 05:13:52 voy4g3r2: check out the src version you want and grep for it 05:15:58 okay, let me see what that unfolds.. i can find the source file and shows this .Xr and my gut is telling me.. remove 05:16:04 but lets see what we find with grep, thank you! 05:21:37 i find it's useful to keep a checkout of at least the currently supported stable branches around for things like this 05:26:13 yeah 05:26:31 i am still chugging along on that pull request 05:26:51 i have expanded 'covering my bases' to man.freebsd.org, raspberry pi, amd64 05:27:06 i got dinged with zzz as it is NOT on armv7 but it is on amd64 05:27:58 and my little command find /usr/src -name "" -type f 05:28:45 but now we have a little find / grep magic, thanks! 06:55:05 voy4g3r2: if you're in a repo, git grep 'blah' might be a bit faster. or git ls-files rather than find 09:03:50 hm, is recvmsg() guaranteed to only read a single message (or part of message)? not two or more in one call? 09:05:56 I thought I was having issues with wifi on my laptop, but last night with the Raspberry P4 and a USB wifi dongle I noticed the same issues. But, I use lagg to easily switch between onboard NIC and wifi. Without lagg wifi is just fine. Anyone else noticed this? 09:06:43 What happens is that a DHCP lease is received, and applied, but the network it still down. After restarting netif three times is finally works. 09:16:08 Seems I'm not the only one: https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/lagg0-doesnt-work-properly-after-upgrade-from-freebsd-13-2-to-14-0.91312/ 09:16:09 Title: Lagg0 doesn't work properly after upgrade from FreeBSD 13.2 to 14.0 | The FreeBSD Forums 10:15:13 Someone else tried "lagg" with wired & wireles connection, to be told that does not work for WiFi; one alternative was of "netgraph" & "bridging": https://tech.lgbt/@Anniiii⊙fd/111691564568971020 10:15:14 Title: Annie: "I am usually quite against guis for pretty much a…" - Ferrodon 10:15:31 s/&/& other was of/ 10:20:56 parv: it may be broken currently, but "to be told that does not work for WiFi" sounds wrong (e.g. https://docs.freebsd.org/en/books/handbook/advanced-networking/#networking-lagg-wired-and-wireless) 10:20:57 Title: Chapter 34. Advanced Networking | FreeBSD Documentation Portal 10:22:29 Well, if someone succeeds with lagg for wifi & ethernet && am still here, would love to read how that works out 10:23:08 I had tried earlier & did not work for me. So yeah 10:23:14 before 13 10:34:15 Using lagg for copper ethernet only - 1GE and 10GE. But that's not what you're asking. 10:37:28 well, I had it setup in a broken way where ethernet and wifi where diffrent subnets, it worked somewhat 10:40:12 AFAIU, it must be direct connection both ethernet and wifi without any switches and wifi routers. 11:05:26 Hello. How do I install after ssh? 11:05:36 i'm installing to Orange Pi One H3 11:06:30 Here there is no need to enable SSH additionally, you can just ssh freebsd@ipaddress 11:06:36 with default password freebsd 11:06:50 but where is my TUI install program, might I ask? 11:07:42 freebsd@generic:/bin % whereis sysinstall 11:07:43 sysinstall: 11:09:11 V-T60: if you dd the image to the sd card (or something like that) it's already installed, that is a pre-installed system. if you want to install on other media, you can run bsdinstall 11:10:11 /dev/ufs/rootfs 55G 1.7G 49G 3% / 11:11:53 lw: can i use OpenBSD in FreeBSD jails? 11:12:17 i want an OpenBSD VM, but my system is not very high on performance 11:12:19 not that i'm aware of, you could run freebsd vm on bhyve but i don't think arm64 bhyve support has been merged yet 11:13:47 once i wanted to migrate my OpenSMTPD mail server from OpenBSD to Debian, but that didn't work 11:14:14 everything is located differently, and setup was too complicated from OpenBSD user point of view 11:14:20 hope that won't be the problem here 11:16:50 <_xor> This is so weird and I'm finally running out of ideas. My Wi-Fi doorbell camera is accessible from clients on my wired LAN, but it's NOT accessible from clients on the same Wi-Fi LAN. Wi-Fi AP is in bridge mode, so no routing or firewalling. 11:19:09 <_xor> Only thing I can think of at this point is that it's some firmware issue with the camera. I did misconfigure one of the other cameras with the wrong ip/gateway and so I had to hard reset it, so the only way I can think of that potentially interfering with the doorbell camera is some kind of weird/sticky/whatever ARP entry in the Wi-Fi AP or 11:19:09 <_xor> something, but that seems like a stretch. 11:19:10 but what is root password? 11:19:26 that is definitely not freebsd 11:19:55 <_xor> My main gateway is and it's possible that something got messed up there, but not sure yet. 11:20:07 <_xor> Traffic does have to go through that box. 11:20:33 ok, root/root 11:20:52 <_xor> Hmm, wait. Wi-Fi peers don't have to go through the FreeBSD box, but the other boxes do, the ones that are accessible. 11:20:57 _xor: any chance the AP is set to deny client-to-client communication? this can be separate from any firewall configuration 11:21:26 <_xor> lw: Good point. Checking now, though I'm not getting my hopes up. 11:26:35 <_xor> Hmm, so I can ping the camera from another Wi-Fi client, but no L4 traffic seems to be getting through. 11:27:59 <_xor> So my phone and laptop, both of which are on Wi-Fi, can communicate with each other fine. They can ping each other and I can SSH between them. 11:30:31 <_xor> Both my phone and laptop can ping my doorbell camera too, they just can't do anything beyond ICMP. Tried to cURL an open port on the camera and it just hung (didn't immediately fail, so it was trying to transmit eth frames somewhere). 11:32:07 <_xor> What's weird is that if I enable my WireGuard tunnel on my phone (regardless of whether it's on Wi-Fi or Cellular), then it's able to communicate with the camera fine. Really strange. 12:47:14 how long do people usually keep logs for? i've just set maillog to 30 days on a couple of mail servers, but i'm wondering about increasing the others too 13:22:35 lw: depends on what you need / use logs for 13:29:10 rtprio: good to know 15:06:10 this is a pretty neat tooL; https://bhyve.npulse.net/#hero 15:06:12 Title: BVCP: FreeBSD Bhyve Project 15:06:34 no source code but man it makes setting up -CURRENT a lot easier than commandline 15:26:10 voy4g3r2: been using cbsd here, which also has LibreNMS monitoring support as well via HV::Monitor 15:46:08 Hello 15:46:15 Can i use ext4 inside of jails? 15:46:23 passthrough the hdd inside somehow 15:46:36 or is this non-working absolutely? 15:47:30 I may be missing something, but "passthrough" is a virtual machine concept, not a jails concept. 15:47:49 probably you're not missing anything 15:51:35 hi all 15:53:21 But if you mount (using kernel support or FUSE) an ext4 partition from outside the jail with a mount path that's inside the jail root, you should be able to access its contents from within the jail, albeit with a different pathname than the mount path (ie, if the outside-the-jail mount path is /var/jail/myjail/mnt/myext4partition and the jail chroot is /var/jail/myjail, it would appear as 15:53:27 /mnt/myext4partition) 15:54:42 so freebsd actually works with ext4? 15:54:48 but only read only? or what is the trouble? 16:03:00 I'm not familiar enough with ext4 support to tell for sure. It may depend on which FUSE file system you use. (sysutils/fusefs-lkl may let you access it read-write.) 16:17:40 how could I connect to mobile network (I got sim card port in my thinkpad) from tty? 16:18:58 <[0x1eef_]> Do you have an interface for it ? Then ifconfig would probably be the way to go. 16:19:27 I see just em0 (ethernet) and lo0 (wifi) 16:20:12 let me reboot 16:20:32 <[0x1eef_]> lo0 is usually the loopback interface - all traffic on that interface stays local. 16:21:06 don't these usually appear as serial devices that talk PPP? 16:21:22 after reboot still just lo0 and em0 16:21:53 V-T60: yes, see ext2fs(5) 16:22:15 i would start by looking through dmesg and see if you have something that looks like it could be a modem (might be a USB device) 16:22:41 Are ports installed like normal packages? I can't find a difference as I don't have it installed on anything at the moment, but I think I was told that ports are just compiled from source and I think(?) are normal packages other than that. 16:22:57 zayd: yes, nowadays ports builds a pkg and installs that 16:23:19 lw: so it's like what the aur is for arch linux? 16:23:48 not really, AUR is extra/community repository, ports and packages are the same software, ports is just the source for packages 16:24:19 although i suppose you could consider all of ports an "AUR" for the base system... 16:24:46 is there a way to search the non port packages without having freebsd installed on something? is everything in ports available in the normal packages 16:25:11 <[0x1eef_]> freshports.org 16:25:20 not sure about searching (try freshports?) but yes, every port is available as a package, unless the build fails 16:25:59 ok, thanks then. 16:26:07 <[0x1eef_]> There is no non-port packages AFAIK. All packages are built from the ports tree with the default build settings. Compiling a port yourself lets you tweak those build settings. Usually the main reason for doing that, or grabbing an update faster. 16:26:10 (or for a very small number of ports that can't be built as packages for legal reasons... i don't know if any of these still exist?) 16:26:32 hmm, "pci2: " looks like might be responsible for mobile network 16:28:12 does ports.freebsd.org have the same packages as freshports? it looks like i'm getting what i'm looking for more often with ports.freebsd.org 16:28:19 oh, my wifi interface is probaly iwm0, not lo0 16:28:38 graso: what is you wwan car ? 16:28:58 I'd expect them to use usb nowadays 16:29:45 what is this? ugen3.3: at usbus3 16:29:55 i try to connect HDD with such an adapter 16:30:05 i had this line on my daily driver 16:30:18 but i don't - on single board computer with FreeBSD 14.0 16:30:19 @babz how could I check it? 16:30:32 this is the notice that the ugen device has attached to the USB bus 16:30:47 but why i don't get this on single board computer? 16:30:53 the adapter is getting light up 16:31:14 try jiggling the cable 16:31:34 try a different USB port, some of those SBCs have weird... things with their USB 16:31:43 and make sure the USB controller itself is detected in dmesg 16:33:29 lw: i have only one usb port 16:33:43 and on this port i attached USB hub 16:34:00 with this USB hub wifi adapter works fine 16:34:27 but when USB adapter for SATA is attached, nothing happens 16:34:40 despite of the fact the USB wifi adapter is connected or not 16:34:56 i tried to connect additional power to the usb hub, but this doesn't help 16:35:17 does usbconfig lists anything ? 16:37:07 yes, but with/without USB SATA nothing changes 16:37:34 the same output 16:38:31 i connected USB ethernet and it indeed appeared 16:38:45 both in usbconfig and everywhere else 16:39:09 and on your pc where it's enumerated ? it should say its speed and the current it's expecting 16:41:33 ugen3.3: at usbus3, cfg=0 md=HOST spd=HIGH (480Mbps) pwr=ON (500mA) 16:41:45 well, 500mA 5v 16:41:52 but i tried with additional power 16:42:00 with 5v 2a power adapter connected to USB hub 16:43:28 weird 16:45:19 is there a good guide to setting up a freebsd system so it is suitable for handling more sensitive data? by sensitive, a credit card would be a good example, although this data is not credit cards 16:45:36 for example, i am thinking that turning off swap would be part of the process,... 16:49:15 ugen3.2: at usbus3, cfg=0 md=HOST spd=HIGH (480Mbps) pwr=ON (500mA) 16:49:22 oh, this appeared 16:49:30 i connected straigth to the usb port 16:49:46 straight* so this is either usb hub problem 16:49:52 or idk what 16:50:02 but through usb otg wifi works fine 17:02:37 fuse: failed to open fuse device: No such file or directory 17:02:39 what does it mean? 17:02:59 oh, well, kldload fusefs 17:03:02 i mounted 17:43:17 whoever's adding storytime fluff into the handbook is going to ruin it. 7.2 3 paragraphs of bullshit about bulgaria 17:48:32 for any curious: https://docs.freebsd.org/en/books/handbook/network/#config-network-setup -- I see nohting about bulgaria 17:48:33 Title: Chapter 7. Network | FreeBSD Documentation Portal 18:12:12 daemon: i guess they mean developers handbook 18:24:50 yuripv: hey, i am not sure i udnerstand your do while looop comment 18:25:51 with the help of kenrap, we figured out to do this approach: https://gist.github.com/kenrap/d2e7d03854ed6dc31d6cc8c880a11a23 18:25:52 Title: git-step-guide.md · GitHub 18:26:06 and we did use a for loop 18:26:54 yuripv: forgot to mention, it is in reference to this comment you made :https://github.com/freebsd/freebsd-src/pull/1072#pullrequestreview-1834714425 18:26:56 Title: A set of changes to manual pages that were identified to be out of alignment by chrisdavidson · Pull Request #1072 · freebsd/freebsd-src · GitHub 18:27:17 ohhh.. looks liek when i rebased the branches, i sucked in other people's commits, the do/while 18:39:55 voy4g3r2: i did no such comment 18:41:14 ohh, my bad 19:00:51 yuripv: i do have one nugget to ask.. i started doing mandoc -Tlint on a lot of files and there are quite a few warnings, is there threshold of sorts to say what is going to be touched vs not? 19:02:18 like a STYLE issue you ignore verus an error in link 19:02:36 https://bsd.to/XMeh 19:02:37 Title: dpaste/XMeh (Plain Text) 20:50:04 Hey, so I am trying to install netdata on truenas core outside the jail by using pkg-fetch on another machine and transferring the needed packages over... So far it's been working until I got a fatac gcc error that it can't compile so I tried doing a simple hello world file and compile it and get this ' fatal error: stdio.h: No such file or directory' I am not at all good with C but I would guss 20:50:07 that's an indication that no libc is installed? Is there a package I can fetch and install on the box to fix it? 21:15:32 bblinky: it's not that the libc isn't installed, there's every chance that's still under /lib/libc.so.7 — but the headerfiles aren't installed 21:17:45 Right, is there any way I can fix that ? :) 21:20:42 meena: I am quite inexperienced with both gcc and BSD... But I like to get my feet wet 21:24:39 bblinky: first off, I would try regular cc; if that's not installed you know that TrueNAS Core is very much stripped down and unstripping it will be a lot of work 21:26:16 y/eah, there is no cc... 21:26:36 Maybe it's a rabbithole of not necesarry 21:27:40 yeah, so, we've got no stdio.h and no cc, compiling something on it will be difficult 21:27:48 But compiling something *for* it won't be impossible. 21:28:12 * meena tries to remember that quote from phk 21:28:21 if you could identify the version of freebsd it was originally based off of, and it has a memstick image you could live usb into the system 21:28:42 The last time you couldn't get a binary on a system without a compiler on it installed was some time in the 1970s 21:29:11 now you use ai 8) 21:29:12 daemon: I think it's based on 13.2 21:29:39 gpt sucks at coding :p 21:29:51 bblinky, so in theory ... https://download.freebsd.org/releases/ISO-IMAGES/13.2/ -> https://download.freebsd.org/releases/ISO-IMAGES/13.2/FreeBSD-13.2-RELEASE-amd64-memstick.img 21:29:52 Title: Index of /releases/ISO-IMAGES/13.2/ 21:30:13 if you was to put that on a usb and boot the system from it, you could pkg add using that to re-establish those base libraries 21:30:20 at your own risk of course :P 21:30:45 might be worth a dd to an external disk 21:30:57 I might try it.. Right now I am just messing arround on a disposable vm for my own ammusement 21:31:06 daemon: do you really mean pkg add? as in PkgBase? 21:31:44 meena, I mean I always use ports for everything -_-" I thought pkg add was what we used now days for pkg things 21:35:27 if a daemon is controlled through a unix domain socket, i'm guessing the daemon should be responsible for creating the uds file when it starts up, and the ctl bin just connects to that socket file? 21:36:11 whichever process created whatever file would own it, but what you described would be expected behaviour 21:37:04 never mind, we don't have PkgBase builds for 13: https://pkg.freebsd.org/FreeBSD:13:amd64/ 21:37:05 is it possible for multiple instances of the ctl bin to be running (like by different users) all connected to the same socket the daemon created? 21:37:05 Title: Index of /FreeBSD:13:amd64/ 21:38:04 alepzi, yes, because the daemon may be accessible by all instances 21:38:19 all files written by that daemon will be in its user:group though (by default) 21:38:32 unix sockets are not special 21:38:36 so the uds file is 1 writer, 0-n readers 21:38:38 just think of them as file based TCP 21:39:00 ah file based TCP makes sense 21:39:34 and it's bidirectional right? like the server can emit data to the socket, and n clients can both receive that data as well as emit their own to the daemon side? 21:39:51 it can be there is some technicalities in that but yes it supports it 21:39:56 TCP on a file 21:40:13 if client 1 emits a message to the socket file, will the other clients receive it also? 21:41:04 in most cases yes 21:41:35 you can actually play around and test it with ncat and the openbsd version of netcat 21:41:51 ncat is part of the nmap package 21:42:22 -U option if I recall correctly 21:42:41 yep here we go, thx 21:43:27 btw you know if most data programs send over uds is text, or binary, or both? 21:43:48 there whatever you want 21:43:57 cool 21:44:07 sake as tcp and af_unix 21:44:19 udp/tcp/af_unix are protocols 21:44:28 whatever you send over them you can define 21:44:57 you might want to check this out ... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OSI_model 21:44:58 Title: OSI model - Wikipedia 21:45:07 if it's possible, think it's a nice feature of a daemon to be line oriented text so ncat can be a little cli? 21:45:37 that was the thought years ago, infact smtp and IRC are designed that way (more for telnet clients than nc) 21:45:54 its really a question on compression at that point 21:46:19 and no its not really relevant now days 21:46:24 most people are not console hacking 21:46:37 and those that are can bodge a client in perl to unwrap the encryption and other stuff 21:46:49 so for every new daemon with a socket based control they make a custom client instead of just using ncat? 21:47:26 well no the standard control is via signals not sockets (af_unix_ 21:47:58 even dynamic reconfiguration is via signals? 21:48:04 not just restart/stop 21:48:25 and there is a very precise list of how those should be handled here: https://man.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?sektion=3&query=signal 21:48:26 Title: signal(3) 21:48:35 well normally yes 21:48:55 REHUP fore 're-read your config' etc 21:49:55 ya but what about fully dynamic configuration, no config file to speak of 21:50:23 no idea, the only applications I have ever seen with that use databases instead 21:56:27 <_xor> Imagine my surprise :| 21:56:30 ok i'll read up on signals 21:56:39 * _xor is installing Linux onto an older system 21:56:41 thx daemon 21:56:46 ew 21:56:49 <_xor> vi doesn't exist, but vim does...go figure. 21:57:02 <_xor> Well, by default I mean. I always expect vi to be present. 22:00:20 _xor, nano instead of ee as well 22:00:24 kinda weird :P 23:33:24 join #politics 23:33:41 absoluetly not 23:34:00 sorry about that, just installed weechat, and still getting comfortable with the interface 23:34:16 ;) 23:34:47 I do have a question for this channel though, I have a server that has zroot zpool with 4 drives stiped, will it be possible to get this zpool down to a single drive without having to rebuild the whole server? 23:35:28 ...striped 23:36:02 i cannot help there, maybe someone will chime in 23:41:04 daviddossi, the direct answer is no. 23:41:29 daviddossi, however. a traditional dump and restore would put your files back on whatever config you would like 23:41:33 so kvm or usb boot 23:55:45 ok thank you, that is what I thought based on what I have read thus far, was just wondering if there were a shortcut :-) 23:56:55 I understand the os and zpool better now, and having everything under a huge zpool does not make sense, very impressed with the system though, it is solid like a tank, reminds me of the old good days of solaris, but much friendlier in my mind