07:09:43 there any modern ci/cd that's opensource and also actually really good? 08:16:08 where in the handbook do i can learn zfs boot environments? 08:18:31 polyex: nowhere https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=263331 (but you could write this!) 08:18:33 Title: 263331 – Explain use of bectl (if using ZFS) in the updating FreeBSD section of the FreeBSD Handbook 08:24:22 unixwitch so we got manpage for bectl just not handbook docs? 08:24:33 yeah 08:26:14 https://klarasystems.com/articles/managing-boot-environments/ 08:26:16 Title: Managing Boot Environments | Klara Inc 08:29:48 looks like boot envs have something to do with jails optionally too 09:38:06 polyex: yes no: you can jail into a BE, like you can chroot / jail into anything 09:39:07 meena so i have host freebsd, i take some be snapshots, then instead of rebooting into a be to test it out, i can launch it in a jail? 09:40:40 or, you can launch a jail do an update, reboot into it, see if works, and activate it for real if it does 09:42:06 so it's like, be's are shared. that's kinda weird. so if a jail is booted with a be and makes a change, then the host is rebooted into it and activated, whatever the jail did to the be now reflects for the host running it? 09:43:26 it's not that the BE is shared, just that any changes you make to a BE (including a non-active one) will be visible if you reboot into it... booting a BE in a jail is just one way to make changes to it 09:53:52 ya but a BE belongs to 1 system, so i'm just surprised another system (a jail) can run it 09:54:02 wouldn't they have different configurations? 09:55:10 depends what it's running, jails can share an IP address with the host and the hostname is set in jail.conf... you might have issues with network daemons not starting properly 09:55:36 also mounting /var on both the jail and the host seems a bit iffy 09:55:53 when we create a BE, what paths or files does it snapshot? i'm wondering what base considers "the operating system" to be 09:56:08 although the default BE config seems to put /var inside the BE, so perhaps that's okay 09:56:40 polyex: ROOT/, unless you specify -r, in which case ROOT/ plus all child filesystems 09:57:11 anything outside ROOT/ is not part of a BE 09:57:11 so only stuff in /root? 09:57:34 ROOT (in caps), /root is the user root's home directory 09:57:53 ohh, ROOT is the zfs dataset right? 09:57:58 yes 09:58:08 zroot/ROOT/14.0-RELEASE_2023-12-22_232055 8K 783G 1.39G / 09:58:08 zroot/ROOT/default 13.0M 783G 6.16G / 09:58:08 zroot/ROOT/main 11.6G 783G 6.60G / 09:58:53 how can i find out what dirs and files are in zroot/ROOT? 09:59:41 -r should probably be default 09:59:41 find / -xdev -print, except this won't include any child filesystems of the root BE... but those aren't used by default, there's only one fs per be 10:01:10 (for a BE other than the active one, find /mnt -xdev -print, assuming the BE is mounted on /mnt) 10:02:40 meena: i saw something about this the other day, it seems there was a desire to only enable -r if bectl detects a 'deep' BE, but i'm not sure why that was... it seems like you'd always want it enabled 10:03:06 deep? 10:03:37 deep meaning there are filesystems beneath ROOT/, like ROOT//usr or something 10:27:09 ty 10:29:24 sway with multiple monitors seems kind of weird, i thought the workspaces would be global, but they're per-monitor, so you have to look at the bar to see which workspace is on which monitor... i guess you get used to it 10:32:22 i'm not looking forward to migrating to wayland. i don't know it for fact but it seems like it's not clearly better than x, only arguably 10:34:08 it's not generally better *but* i do think the design is better in the specific case of KMS/DRM, which is nearly all x86 graphics cards now. since everything X used to do on a driver level is now done by the kernel, and modern applications have abandoned things like Xt entirely 10:34:51 but isn't it cool that x lets you run bin on 1 comp but show the gui on another over network? 10:35:03 i'm still a bit suspicious of it because some people (like GNOME) are pushing weird ideas like client-side decorations which i find pointless 10:35:39 ya gnome sucks 10:36:38 polyex: the X model was nice for things like dumb terminals, but those are hilariously insecure nowadays (unless you use IPsec or something, maybe...), Wayland doesn't prohibit something more like RDP for that although i don't know how much that exists today 10:37:14 (i know there's some support for VNC, but that seems to be more about connecting to Wayland remotely, rather than running remote apps locally) 10:44:52 isn't it cool that… yes, yes it is, but how many people use that? 10:45:09 ^ 10:45:19 although to be fair i do run X apps via ssh X forwarding occasionally 10:45:46 ofc you can still run X apps in Wayland but it would be nice to have native support for that, i think it's still a somewhat common use case 10:45:57 let's try some other exercise: isn't it cool that Unix emulates a 1940 teletype? yes, sure, but wouldn't it be cooler if it pretended to be a computer? 10:45:57 I'm always running X apps remotely. Mostly xterms.... 10:48:10 fwiw, this use case is common enough in some environments (enterprise desktop) that companies like Microsoft and Citrix have entire product lines built around it... 10:48:24 true 10:48:33 modern Unix Hardware https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teleprinter 10:48:34 Title: Teleprinter - Wikipedia 10:55:57 i wonder how hard it would be to get the apple magic trackpad working in freebsd. i think there's an open source Windows driver somewhere... 10:56:19 or does atp(4) already support it? 10:56:51 (the manpage says it's for internal trackpads only...) 11:11:12 unixwitch: Linux has it working so, no? 11:33:22 ah, it's supported by bcm5974(4) apparently 12:48:57 any tip for how to fsck 8 disks at once without opening several terminals? 12:50:23 cant be done at boot becouse they need to be attached by geli first 12:52:31 tmux / screen or: fdisk CMD PATH & fdisk CMD PATH & .... 12:53:31 suffinxing & basically backgrounds a task 12:53:39 suffixing* 12:54:08 you also could use 'daemon' its in base 12:55:03 chatgpt made a script for me using tmux, ill try that 12:55:04 thanks 12:55:10 np 12:55:18 beware that both tmux and screen are not in base (if that matterS) 12:55:34 yeah I use tmux from time to time :) 12:55:38 sopparus how accurate are the scripts chatgpt makes u? 12:55:38 :-) 12:55:56 polyex: for stuff like this its almost 100 % 12:56:10 nice 12:56:17 I managed to get bing AI to write perl a week or so ago 12:56:18 more advanced stuff, not so much.. 12:56:19 was quite impressed 13:07:36 after all these years, we finally have a use for generative "A" "I": writing Perl. 13:12:54 :) 13:13:16 I like just chatting to it and asking it increasingly silly things its quite entertaining 13:13:34 when I asked it to write a websocket adapter in POE it actually nicked all the code from a module I wrote years ago which was intersting 13:30:42 i'm trying to sketch out support for automatic IPv6 CLAT configuration (for 464XLAT/NAT64)... the macOS approach is that the CLAT prefix in the RA is configured as an interface attribute (visible in ifconfig), which seems like a reasonable way to make it available to something else that does the actual config 13:31:55 probably better on the forums or the mailing list ;) 13:32:12 yeah, i haven't thought about this enough for that yet :-) 13:33:35 There used to be (back on leenode) #ipv6 that was very good for well chat about ipv6 it may have moved across here, worth a shot at least 13:38:07 #networking is still here, they might be able to help too 13:38:44 i think on the networking side everything is already present (ipfw can do the actual CLAT), it's just a case of working out how to fit the parts together 13:39:24 #perl ;) 15:15:51 are we no longer getting 14.0-STABLE images? https://www.freebsd.org/where/ 15:15:52 Title: Get FreeBSD | The FreeBSD Project 15:19:08 if all else fails, just throw some perl at it? 15:23:32 or throw perl in general :P 15:24:44 jbo, https://download.freebsd.org/snapshots/ISO-IMAGES/14.0/ 15:24:45 Title: Index of /snapshots/ISO-IMAGES/14.0/ 15:24:53 https://download.freebsd.org/snapshots/ISO-IMAGES/14.0/CHECKSUM.SHA256-FreeBSD-14.0-STABLE-amd64-20231216-2ef9079ece5a-266002 15:25:51 unixwitch: hm, I looked up "flang" and it is a tool ("miner's pick with two points"), well but as slang it seems to be used as whatever you want according to www.urbandictionary so I'm sure you can use it as swear word 15:26:26 you can use whatever you like as a swear word if you try hard enough 15:26:49 and regarding perl https://www.mcmillen.dev/sigbovik/ 15:26:51 Title: 93% of Paint Splatters are Valid Perl Programs | Colin McMillen 15:27:00 if you use a swear word enough, it can even change from a swear word to a "normal" word 15:30:16 thank you daemon 15:39:37 np 15:58:29 i don't suppose there's an existing script which can be used to bootstrap a bhyve vm from a source tree? (i can do it manually, just trying to save the effort) 15:59:32 unixwitch: we got build targets for various vm thingies 16:01:04 ah... release/Makefile seems to have something for that. thanks 16:01:33 i forgot release includes vmimages now 16:10:19 unixwitch: regarding multimonitor sway, it just does what i3 does there 16:10:40 that's probably true, but i've never used i3, so that did not inform my expectations :-) 16:28:53 unixwitch: speaking of vm images.. i got a response on teh CURRENT mailing list on the installer stuff.. it looks like that there is a "propogation delay" with images and checksums usually take time to "catch up" 16:29:03 not sure if that is a valid answer.. but it is STILL doing it, so going with that unless something changes :) 16:30:52 voy4g3r2: yeah i saw that, but i don't really see how that would break installing from disc1... the mirror should replace the files atomically? 16:31:38 and that shouldn't be the cause of the issue on 14.0 since that was released ages ago and couldn't possibly still be syncing to mirrors 16:36:27 (the problem Alfonso mentioned is when, say bootonly has synced to the mirror but the sets haven't, or something like that, right? but disc1 should include both the sets and the manifest...) 17:10:31 how do you guys backup your machines? zfs send|recv ? 17:11:14 jbo: yes, i use syncoid (part of sysutils/sanoid) to do it, which so far seems to work well 17:12:01 it has some nice features like using ZFS user properties to disable backups for particular filesystems 17:12:17 I'm trying to figure out how to set up a proper ZFS send|recv based backup system. basically my idea is to have a backup storage destination server in my rack. all other servers are zfs sending to that machine. And then from that backup storage machine I would selectively backup to a remote location (which is $$$) 17:12:45 i.e. I currently have a 1TB account at rsync.net where I can zfs recv (this already works) 17:12:49 but locally I want to backup about 10TB 17:13:09 unixwitch, so you don't dick around with custom shell scripts for your backup purposes? 17:13:46 jbo: i used to, but not anymore, syncoid does everything i need. i *think* it should work for your use case, since you could set the do-not-backup property on the filesystems on the local backup server ... but i haven't tested that. 17:14:14 unixwitch, yeah so currently I too have custom scripts for the backups via zfs send|recv. I perceive my setup as "fragile". 17:15:04 unixwitch, one of the things I feel I never did properly is incremental backups. Basically I have to scripts: One which creates the initial snapshot on the source host, sends it to the destination host and then keeps the snapshot alive. and then another script which does the incremental backup. but that seems so fuckly. 17:15:32 yeah ... this is one reason i didn't want to write my own scripts. doing incrementals right and handling all the edge cases is not trivial 17:15:51 exactly. another problem I had was dealing with mountpoint properties. 17:16:08 I would like them to be replicated, but then also I managed to make the destination host fucked up because it mounted the incorrect datasets :D 17:16:12 In today's "I'm not working" accomplishments, I've fixed two Nginx @LibreNMS graphing issues (it was permissions for nginx-status on the host) and resurrected TimeMachine backups on my air01. 17:16:33 nice dvl! :) 17:16:45 jbo: thanks. It's been a good week so far. 17:17:00 All these things which linger because you're doing other things... 17:17:14 I got about 5 years worth of those :p 17:17:29 this reminds me that i'm actually not backup my desktop right now, i should probably fix that since it only has a single crappy ssd in it 17:17:46 unixwitch, sanoid seems somewhat reasonable on first glance. Although I would have preferred a solution that doesn't advertise it as "for linux, but might maybe sometimes partially work on FreeBSD" :D 17:17:48 unixwitch: but ... with zfs on it? 17:18:17 I like sanoid and syncoid (same package) for snapshots. Very flexible for my stuff. 17:18:44 dvl: yes, but i'm paranoid about this because i've had (consumer) SSDs lose all data on power failure before. perhaps newer ones include power loss protection but i don't really trust cheap hardware 17:18:48 I use syncoid to backup my bhyve instances 17:19:39 unixwitch, so does the zfs recv host also need to run sanoid/syncoid? 17:19:50 unixwitch: I've taken to using a Documents directory - all data goes in there. Then I use syncthing to replicate that elsewhere. At that elsewhere, it is snapshot'd and backed up. 17:19:58 jbo: no, from the remote host's point of view it's just connecting via ssh and running some zfs commands 17:20:05 excellent 17:20:11 unixwitch: The bonus, I have more than one laptop. The Documents directory is synced across ALL of them. 17:20:40 dvl: i've been thinking about trying syncthing, but i have things like (for example) 4 copies of the ports tree that i wouldn't want to put in there :-) 17:20:49 so when shit hits the fan and everybody is dying from some weird fungal infection I can always walk up to my backup host, connect a terminal and I see all the stuff on my ZFS filesystem there without the need for any special tooling? sandoid/syncoid is only "client" ware for the backup source host? 17:20:56 unixwitch: You can easily tell Syncthing which things to sync. 17:21:29 jbo: The result is just ZFS filesytems. 17:21:46 jbo: yeah. on the host you just see all the files on the local filesystem, so you can access them, or zfs send them back to the client, or whatever. (note that by default this means it sends encrypted datasets unencrypted... but you can enable encryption on the backup host separately, or there's some way to make it use zfs send -x but i haven't tested that) 17:22:16 so I'm basically replacing my custom crap shell scripts with sanoid/syncoid? that sounds like the solution I was looking for. I really don't want something that does something weird/non-base on the backup destination host. it also sounds like unixwitch went that path already. 17:22:55 this sounds exactly like I was looking for :) 17:22:56 s/on the host/on the backup host/ 17:23:04 thank you guys - much appreciated! 17:24:02 jbo: no worries, enjoy. 17:24:43 jbo: https://dan.langille.org/2019/11/11/zfstools-sanoid-snapshots-on-the-local-host/ and https://dan.langille.org/2022/12/27/using-syncoid-to-backup-zfs-snapshots-home-assistant/ 17:24:44 Title: zfstools & sanoid – snapshots on the local host – Dan Langille's Other Diary 17:25:31 jbo: one thing to be aware of is, if you use sanoid on the client to do auto-snapshots, you might also want to run sanoid on the backup host to have to automatically prune the old snapshots, because syncoid will send those over. but that's optional 17:26:07 dvl, that looks like it's your blog/guide? 17:26:12 (just so I know how trustworthy it is) 17:26:34 jbo: Yes, I wrote that. 17:26:39 excellent - thank you! 17:27:28 unixwitch, I seem to remember from my previous custom crap scripts that there are some flags for zfs recv that would automatically destroy older snapshots or something like that, right? 17:27:53 i haven't looked into that (because i actually want this behaviour) but possibly, yes... you can give custom zfs send/recv to syncoid i believe 17:28:01 custom arguments, i mean 17:28:11 aye 17:29:01 one thing I hate about my current solution is that my source host is ssh'ing as root to the destination host. that is really not pretty. but I assume that has nothing to do with syncoid/sanoid. I remember something about zfs allow-user or similar. 17:29:50 oh, dvl's post actually has some zfs allow magic in there - I better read that now :) 17:30:10 personally, I'd like to have one account per source host. 17:33:53 so i cleaned the grill over the fan intake on my desktop, the idle CPU temperature dropped by 5C and the peak temperature during poudriere dropped by about 10C... i probably should do that more regularly 17:34:28 my solution to that is to simply live in a cleanroom 17:35:53 jbo: yes, zfs allow, so no ssh as root. Also, you can restrict the ssh usage to certain commands only. via ~/.ssh/authorized_keys 17:36:57 unixwitch: got graphs? Post them on the intrawebstuff 17:37:31 no graphs, although i'll probably put it in grafana at some point so i can post some next time i clean it (in 5 years' time) :-) 17:37:45 dvl, any chance this works with doas too? AFAIK the major restriction of doas vs sudo is that doas cannot do wildcard command whitelists 17:37:58 unixwitch: I noticed my IPMI snmpd interface provides temperatures. 17:38:06 jbo: I'm sure it does 17:38:41 for monitoring stuff (including IPMI) I can recommend zabbix. 17:38:48 i just have dev.cpu.0.temperature displayed in my desktop taskbar at the moment. should check if that appears in node_exporter 17:39:28 it doesn't really matter right now but it would nice to have in summer for our server since it gets quite hot in that room 17:39:36 One thing I've separated: Nagios for monitoring (is it running?) and LibreNMS for metrics (how much foo has bar done today?) 17:39:51 dvl, or just zabbix for both :> 17:40:06 jbo: I've never had a reason to move from Nagios. 17:40:51 at an old job we used to use Ganglia for metrics... that was pretty nice for monitoring large numbers of servers, but nowadays it probably doesn't do anything grafana+whatever can't do 17:41:09 It reminds me of : use a web browser for web browsing, use a mail client for reading mail, and a news reader for reading news. Dates back a few decades. 17:55:16 unixwitch: agree..i was not 100% sure what that even meant.. but i am leaning a lot towards virtualbox 17:55:34 but finally got another 4tb hard drive on sale.. time to see if i can 'swap' out a 3tb to make an offsite backup 17:55:54 can I disable all DOCS entries from ports by default? 17:57:02 also is it possible to get all of these option windows out of the way? I think my compiling would have been done long ago without them 17:58:14 fowl: i guess "OPTIONS_UNSET+==DOCS" in /etc/make.conf should do the first thing, although i've never tried it 17:58:16 fowl, you can have OPTIONS_UNSED+=DOCS 17:58:37 use 'make BATCH=yes install' to skip options dialogue entirely, if you're installing manually 17:58:38 unixwitch, it's +=, not +== (I do assume it was a typo) 17:58:47 er, i meant to type +=, yeah 18:00:17 I usually have OPTIONS_UNSET+= for EXAMPLES, WAYLAND and PULSEAUDIO :> 18:00:28 thanks friends 18:02:45 [00:09:11] [01] [00:00:19] Finished sysutils/sanoid | sanoid-2.2.0: Success 18:02:47 here we go 18:05:38 fowl: fwiw, if you're building ports frequently, i recommend looking at poudriere or synth (which build packages on a local filesystem you can install with pkg) - or at least portmaster or portinstall, which automate a lot of tedious stuff 18:05:47 er, portupgrade, nor portinstall 18:06:12 a not-so-complete "complete guide on poudriere" I wrote when I first started using it: https://blog.insane.engineer/post/freebsd_poudriere_guide/ 18:06:13 Title: Poudriere: A complete guide 18:06:48 fowl, I can certainly recommend using poudriere even if you're just building locally. 18:06:50 the nice thing about poudriere/synth is not having to deal with these "python/perl/whatever upgrade" flag days... it just does the right thing by default 18:07:41 i remember having all kinds of hassle with those with postupgrade... back before we had poudriere 18:08:02 no poudriere no fun 18:08:17 even when building everything locally 18:08:19 s/postupgrade/portupgrade/ ... i do not know why i cannot type anything today 18:08:24 then you can at least easily do resource restrictions on jails etc. 18:08:32 unixwitch, too much whisky? 18:08:40 vodka, but yes, probably related 18:08:44 hah :D 18:09:49 time to submit drunk patches to fix net-im/tokodon 18:10:06 don't do that 18:12:10 jbo: it's trivial enough that i think i'm safe https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=276025 18:12:12 Title: 276025 – net-im/tokodon: add purpose to USE_KDE 18:12:16 (and i did test it) 18:12:51 hm... are we meant to bump PORTREVISION for these? i think this is the first time i submitted a patch to an existing port 18:13:04 yes, you should. 18:13:16 although I am only a committer since september so probably ask somebody more experienced to be sure. 18:13:25 but from what I know you should bump PORTREVISION for this. 18:13:49 the rationale is that anything that changes the resulting/built package binary should do a bump 18:14:01 yeah, i guess this is required for pkg to pick up the change 18:14:06 yep 18:17:11 dvl, regarding your blog post on syncoid: why are you adding 'mount' to zfs allow on the receiving host? 18:17:34 jbo: I don't recall, but I think it was required to get it to work. 18:18:22 hm, now i got it to build, i don't actually like tokodon very much, it only has a single column layout... but it seems to be the only mastodon client that isn't web-based or an electron app 18:19:19 unixwitch, time for an upstream patch then ;) 18:19:42 i think adding multi-column would be a pretty huge project. maybe i'll have a look if i can't find anything better 18:25:28 dvl: You generally don't need to mount a dataset as part of send/receive. In fact, oftentimes you explicitly don't want it mounted. 18:25:51 mason: All I can say is I didn't add it without reason. 18:26:19 dvl: I have an example of explicitly suppressing mounts in my tool: https://github.com/ChibaPet/backup-zfs 18:26:20 Title: GitHub - ChibaPet/backup-zfs: Shell scripting to automate back-up via ZFS snapshots. 18:27:19 mason: If you go through the article, there's a lot of trial and error document. However, I definitely do not recall the mount issue. 18:27:36 SCSI sense: ILLEGAL REQUEST asc:21,0 (Logical block address out of range) <--never good when you had a drive to a box 18:27:45 was reading about ucl and someone said it fails the norway bug but what is that? 18:29:59 .no 18:30:13 reminds me of: https://ruudvanasseldonk.com/2023/01/11/the-yaml-document-from-hell 18:30:15 Title: The yaml document from hell 18:30:38 what's the tld got to do with ucl? 18:30:54 ahh 18:30:58 read the article I linked :) 18:31:40 > {"geoblock_regions": ["dk", "fi", "is", false, "se"]} 18:31:41 :D 18:31:53 so the norway problem is basically the pain of dynamic typing, applies to config langs 18:31:59 polyex, yes: https://hitchdev.com/strictyaml/why/implicit-typing-removed/ 18:32:00 Title: The Norway Problem - why StrictYAML refuses to do implicit typing and so should you - HitchDev 18:32:24 so what's a better config lang then? 18:32:31 personally I like XML 18:32:42 but you'll find plenty of people hating on that as usual with everything 18:32:45 dvl: Can you link the article? I'm just going off of channel traffic but I'd enjoy reading it. 18:32:52 not very user friendly but i also like xml 18:32:56 polyex, for simple stuff I like TOML 18:33:07 toml doesn't have norway problem? 18:33:30 mason: [Dec 30 12:24] jbo: https://dan.langille.org/2019/11/11/zfstools-sanoid-snapshots-on-the-local-host/ and https://dan.langille.org/2022/12/27/using-syncoid-to-backup-zfs-snapshots-home-assistant/ 18:33:31 Title: zfstools & sanoid – snapshots on the local host – Dan Langille's Other Diary 18:33:57 ty 18:34:24 polyex, TOML has problems too. XML is the only thing I know that works reasonably well "everywhere" 18:34:29 hence all my shit is XML 18:34:44 i usually write my own config parser with a named.conf-like format. i know this is not trendy nowadays... 18:35:00 would you make a config file format for a program be in xml format tho jbo? 18:35:01 polyex: TOML requires quotation for strings 18:35:24 unixwitch, trendyness is part of the problem. XML isn't trendy. but if it works it work. I see no reason to re-invent the wheel all the time just to end up with yet another solution that just has other problems :) 18:35:45 polyex, yes. I would. I use either XML or TOML. 18:35:45 what about cue or nickel? 18:35:59 shall we discuss all 74820 obscure formats now? :D 18:36:39 some prefer Lua for their configuration files 18:36:47 jbo: i have noticed that about half the time, when an application uses an XML config file, it applies XML in a really weird/unidiomatic/bad way 18:36:55 to which I say, I salute you 18:36:55 Java is usually okay for this but other stuff not so much 18:37:10 unixwitch, I have also noticed that some people use screwdrivers in weird/unidiomatic/bad ways 18:37:19 abusing a tool does not make the tool bad IMHO 18:37:38 XML is kind of hard to read/edit for an unitiated person 18:37:49 see JSON. nothing wrong with JSON but for some reason it gets used in places where it really shouldn't be. doesn't make JSON bad. 18:38:01 jbo: i didn't mean to say that XML is bad, just mentioning my experience with it :-) 18:38:16 unixwitch, you're right - sorry if my response sounded triggery. 18:38:23 imo JSON should only be placed between the browser and the server 18:38:32 Remilia +1 18:39:05 one of the main things I like about XML as a format is that it properly supports attributes 18:39:33 note browser specifically; I think actual non-browser client-eserver APIs should not use JSON 18:39:34 400 18:39:38 no question what 400 is. 18:39:39 -e* 18:39:47 err, that should have been unit="ms" 18:40:15 XML is also great because you can process it without programming. XSLT is great. 18:40:30 "oh, you want to have an HTML rendering of this config file? there you go" 18:41:19 "you want to have a flattened hierarchy of this nested node? there you go" 18:41:49 and then of course xpath. you can actually search XML files properly. 18:42:23 i just twitched seeing this xml stuff and think of ICH e2b(M) transmissions and how ugly it was: https://admin.ich.org/sites/default/files/inline-files/ICH_ICSR_Specification_V2-3.pdf 18:42:30 I think I extolled the benefits of XML a week ago on tokio discord hahaha 18:43:02 i can probably still be tracked in the european union working on that stuff 18:43:06 Remilia <3 18:43:14 i had to give all my info and my first born.. to be able to work on that 18:43:29 but for client-server communication people should really consider using protocols other than HTTP(S) and running strictly typed stuff 18:43:45 or especially server-server 18:43:58 +1 18:44:05 * unixwitch tries to understand gnome-keyring 18:44:45 I wonder if JSON has the Ontario problem because I think that one is abbreviated ON 18:44:52 er 18:44:58 YAML, not JSON 18:45:07 and on is true in YAML 18:45:14 i remember the horros trying to use ANT configuration which was all xml 18:45:19 and the horrors of java 18:45:24 Remilia, last time I checked on and off were supposed to be treated as strings in YAML 18:45:33 for the love of god, why can't this damn machine find the new drive i just added 18:45:45 voy4g3r2, camcontrol rescan all? 18:46:29 camcontrol devlist shows the drive! 18:46:42 (don't do that if you have a dozen storage racks with 4000 drives) :D 18:46:48 haha, i got 4 18:47:11 voy4g3r2, if camcontrol shows the drive then I don't understand why you say that it isn't finding it? 18:47:13 i just want to add this 4tb one and take out a 3tb one.. so i can have some kind of offsite backup 18:47:20 voy4g3r2: how are you determining that the system can't see it? note if it's a new disk it won't appear in gpart until you actually create a partition table on it... someone else here ran into that recently 18:47:27 jbo: because i try to add to the zpool for reslivering and it says no bueno 18:47:49 errr!!! i am following the zfs docs on freebsd, it does not mention gpart :) 18:47:55 just add the disk and do a zpool replace 18:47:57 jbo: you posted a link earlier about the YAML docoment from hell, quoting, 'The literals off, no, and n, in various capitalizations (but not any capitalization!), are all false in yaml 1.1, while on, yes, and y are true.' 18:48:00 voy4g3r2, you have to partition it before resilvering, no? 18:48:17 i am also cranky because penn state is losing to ole miss right now 18:48:26 * voy4g3r2 shoudl NOT watch college football while working on computers 18:48:32 voy4g3r2: can you show the output of camcontrol devlist, and the zpool command you're running and the error? 18:48:38 Remilia, you're right. part of the big mess with YAML is the various specs. it's possible that I am quoting some 200x spec 18:48:52 voy4g3r2: yeah gotta watch Ligue 1 or La Liga 18:49:26 Remilia: i am trying to have some kamasai washington the epic going.. i have the game on silent 18:49:32 regarding resilvering: one thing I learned the painful way is to always create a zfs partition on each disk rather than using the full disk. one has to replicate that gpart partition table before resilvering, no? 18:49:45 voy4g3r2: those do not really tell me anything haha 18:49:48 Remilia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Epic_%28album%29 18:49:50 Title: The Epic (album) - Wikipedia 18:49:56 this is jazz heaven! 18:50:14 just a little under 3 hours 18:50:24 but anyway.. need to get outputs onto bsd.to 18:51:13 https://bsd.to/YQN4 18:51:14 Title: dpaste/YQN4 (Plain Text) 18:51:24 i am scrubbing as the dang zpool found 5 errors 18:51:34 > scrub in progress since 18:51:41 can you even modify the pool during scrubbing? 18:51:55 > missing pool name argument 18:52:17 storage is the pool name 18:52:21 because i am "smart" 18:52:26 voy4g3r2: that seems like some sort of write-protection on the disk...? or something... does 'gpart create -s gpt da3' work? 18:52:29 but you didn't specify that, voy4g3r2 18:52:47 voy4g3r2, I also usually name my pools 'storage' - I see nothing wrong with that :) 18:53:00 jbo: yes, first time i made a mistake, i ran it again.. with the name 18:53:07 voy4g3r2, right - my bad. 18:53:27 let me try that gpart thingie 18:53:27 voy4g3r2, can you actually read from the disk? 18:53:37 unixwitch, wouldn't it be more wise to copy the partition table from one of the other disks? 18:53:38 i did not do what unixwitch suggested yet 18:53:57 jbo: i just suggested that to see if a partition table can be written at all (since that's what zpool wants to do) 18:54:10 can always replace it with another one after 18:54:18 my goal is to REMOVE that diskid/blah blah with this new drive 18:54:21 unixwitch, aye. reasonable. I was previously asking whether zpool automatically creates the partition table. 18:54:29 then MOVE the diskid blah blah.. to my pole barn to have an "offsite" backup 18:54:38 zpool does not know anything about partition tables 18:54:56 that's... true. 18:54:58 and you do not need a partition table if you are not booting off those drives 18:55:01 hmm, in Solaris, zpool would write a GPT label to the disk when you added a whole disk to the pool. has that changed? 18:55:21 this does make me feel _a little_ better 18:55:28 i am like.. just put the drive in, it will just "work" 18:55:28 voy4g3r2, one of the things I learned is to create pools with GPT labels: https://blog.insane.engineer/post/freebsd_zfs_gpt_labels/ 18:55:30 Title: FreeBSD: ZFS pool using GPT labels 18:55:39 my old colocated server had zpools over raw disks 18:56:11 Remilia, the problem with raw disks is that if you replace a disk and it happens to have a few bytes less than the other ones you're screwed. Hence I always create a dedicated partition on each disk leaving a gig or so free. 18:56:19 i am hoping after this is all done.. i am changing that damn raid setup 18:56:49 # gpart create -s GPT /dev/da3 18:56:50 gpart: geom 'da3': File exists 18:56:56 well thanks.. 18:56:56 voy4g3r2, gpart show da3 18:57:10 # gpart show da3 18:57:11 => 40 281474976710576 da3 GPT (128P) 40 281474976710576 - free - (128P) 18:57:35 if you're sure that is the "new" disk I'd just nuke it via gpart 18:57:37 128P?! that does not seem right. 18:57:37 jbo so when you said no earlier, were you saying ucl DOESN'T suffer from the norway problem? 18:57:53 jbo: bought it 2 hours ago.. it better be.. it was even in a bag 18:58:01 assuming there's no data on this disk, maybe 'gpart destroy da3' and then try zpool again 18:58:05 polyex, no, I said ".no" when you "asked" what the norway problem is :p 18:58:21 voy4g3r2, oh, is this an external USB drive? those usually come with partition tables from the fab 18:58:28 voy4g3r2, gpart destroy da3 18:58:30 ohh lol 18:58:38 so does UCL suffer from norway problem? 18:58:48 jbo: an internal drive in a usb enclosure.. yes 18:58:52 hahahahahah 18:58:55 128 PB is insane 18:58:59 # gpart destroy /dev/da3 18:58:59 gpart: Device not configured 18:59:05 it is 4TB 18:59:05 voy4g3r2, gpart destroy -F da3 18:59:27 voy4g3r2, alternatively, just dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/da3 bs=1M count=1024 or something like that to nuke the partition table. 18:59:46 voy4g3r2: `sysctl kern.geom.debugflags=16; dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/da3 bs=512 count=2` 19:00:05 or maybe more in count 19:00:08 well the destroy says nof confifugred again 19:00:15 Remilia, yeah that is more accurate. I tend to overdo it on the bs/count for "safety" :D 19:00:23 voy4g3r2, just dd the first few bytes. 19:00:25 jbo: you need debugflags too 19:00:33 Remilia, what? why? never did that before. 19:01:15 well, maybe this changed, but before you could not dd over a partition table without it 19:01:24 https://bsd.to/NRuB 19:01:24 protection 19:01:25 Title: dpaste/NRuB (Plain Text) 19:01:26 that is just crazy 19:01:44 voy4g3r2: your drive is DOA 19:01:46 Remilia, interesting - I didn't know that and certainly performed this "act" without it successfully several times. 19:01:48 ya ucl does suffer norway problem looks like. DAMN 19:01:49 check dmesg 19:01:50 voy4g3r2: do you see anything in dmesg? 19:02:09 https://bsd.to/oY4F 19:02:10 Title: dpaste/oY4F (Plain Text) 19:02:12 hmm... can you read smart data from a USB drive? 19:02:13 I mean, it should not show 128 PB 19:02:19 ahhhH!!!! 19:02:43 voy4g3r2, does /dev/da3 even exist? does dmesg show that if you plug it in? 19:02:45 either the drive is DOA or cable failure 19:02:59 Remilia, or USB host port :> 19:03:13 it certainly exists judging by dmesg 19:03:19 that's a weird error though, it must be really broken 19:03:19 jbo: i would not think the USB host thing as i am listening to music off the zpool 19:03:51 is that a multi-drive enclosure 19:03:58 yes 19:04:02 .__. 19:04:21 I dunno, either check if the drive is sitting in it properly or RMA it 19:04:29 unless that error is from geom trying to read the backup GPT label at 128PB... 19:04:32 voy4g3r2, so the disk you're replacing is a standard "internal" HDD that you mount in the enclosure? 19:04:37 (which would certainly be out of range) 19:04:40 jbo: correct 19:04:50 voy4g3r2, and you're sure that the disk is fucked and not the controller in the enclosure? :D 19:05:07 jbo: re debugflags, correction: it only applies to MBR stuff, sorry 19:05:14 is that one of those enclosures with a built-in USB hub and then one USB-to-SATA per drive? 19:05:16 i am defaulting to drive, at this point, as there are 3 other drives in the enclosure.. and i am listenign to music off that device 19:05:36 Remilia, good to know - thanks for the info! Why is that tho? MBR surely is in a similar place as GPT at the beginning of the disk, no? 19:06:12 ask someone else, I always assumed that kernel simply tries to protect the MBR 19:06:22 jbo: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0734G79FW?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details 19:06:23 voy4g3r2, yeah but if the enclosure has a built-in USB hub and then one controller per bay you might have a broken controller too. do you have a way of hooking up the new disk you bought to your machine directly (internal SATA) port or a standalone USB-to-SATA adapter? 19:06:25 Title: Amazon.com: ORICO 5 Bay 3.5inch Hard Drive Enclosure USB 3.0 to SATA Magnetic Tool-Free External HDD Docking Station Case with 12V/6.5A Power Adapter for Family Storage Expansion Up to 90TB (5x18) - DS500U3 : Electronics 19:06:37 jbo: yes, i have an enclsoure i can put it in 19:06:50 voy4g3r2, I'd try that now. 19:07:06 lol the thermal/cooling design of that enclosure is stupid af 19:07:08 so weird camcontrol sees it.. but after that it is foobar 19:07:20 jbo: they are always like that :\ 19:07:35 there are very few good external enclosures 19:07:39 jbo: haha.. it is in a basement, it is plenty cold.. in another area of my house 19:07:43 Remilia, icy has some where you mount them the other way around (rotated 90 degrees) 19:07:54 icybox are nice 19:07:57 yeah 19:08:01 I had a trayless rack for years 19:08:05 i am going to move the drive to another bay an dsee what happens 19:08:12 if the one bay is shot, i am returning this damn thing 19:08:44 voy4g3r2: also it is not about ambient temperature because drives get seriously hot without proper spacing or airflow 19:09:02 yep 19:09:17 voy4g3r2, for fun and giggles: is the broken disk by any chance the one closest to the front panel of the enclosure? :D 19:09:23 haha its the bay 19:09:25 Seagate's enterprise drives went up to 55 degrees without active cooling in a server room with 14 degrees ambient 19:10:00 see, stupid cooling solution. obviously that disk died :p (could be other reasons too, ofc) 19:10:03 simply by being next to each other in a standard tower case 19:10:27 a single disk in the same case never went over 30 19:11:26 Remilia, have you seen the icy dildo? :D 19:11:28 IB-1823MF-C31 19:11:32 I'm trying to slowly upgrade an old system from 11.0 to 11.4 - is that supported ? 19:11:32 well something didn't like something 19:11:35 the whole zpool went down 19:11:51 when I try freebsd-update -r 11.4-RELEASE upgrade I get Fetching 2 metadata files... failed 19:12:06 last1: it might be too old to use freebsd-update 19:12:10 last1, I assume/guess that the official repos no longer provide binary updates for 11 19:12:37 jbo: a single nvme.. 19:13:37 jbo: even after new(er) updates are provided, the old ones stay 19:13:49 # zpool clear storage 19:13:50 cannot clear errors for storage: I/O error 19:13:52 oh joy 19:14:04 freebsd-update-build is wicked and you don't want to have anyone get rid of the latest patchlevels for an EOL version 19:14:10 * Remilia does not trust USB enclosures 19:14:22 last1: what's the system doing? it might be a great time to rebuild and migrate to 14 19:14:27 too many possible points of failure 19:14:37 I need to check the software running on it first 19:14:38 it's custom 19:14:44 so is there a way to get to 11.4 first ? 19:14:57 Remilia: at this point, i am going to find an "old" computer with multiple bays 19:15:04 i figure this would be "easier" 19:15:21 that is what i get for doing that 19:15:25 brb 19:16:00 xmj, is that a guess or a fact? 19:16:16 EOL is EOL 19:16:35 but first must move to another machine, so i can do this.. 19:17:12 luckily voyager2 wasn't built with USB enclosures on board :> 19:17:28 jbo: do you know of an unofficial repo where can I get 11.4 from for upgrade ? 19:18:05 jbo: haha.. my wife goes.. well just buy another raspberry pi.. 19:18:26 i kept eyeing these lenovo mff machines 19:18:27 voy4g3r2, RPi is the USB enclosures of the embedded world so not sure if that will be a better solution :p 19:18:41 jbo: yes that was her dig at them 19:18:45 as Remilia, I just don't trust them. but if I need one, then it's icybox 19:18:53 ever since i tried to put pihole on the network.. she hates them 19:19:08 sounds like time for a new wife? :p 19:19:10 i got sick of all this "spying" my work computer was doing on my network.. so i blocked it 19:19:11 (obviously kidding) 19:19:28 and i am like who actually clicks links in google searches 19:19:31 ah, must be something else, I tried upgrading to 12.4 , same error 19:19:35 yeah.. that was the evil eye look 19:20:02 last1, traceroute update.freebsd.org 19:20:22 (or just ping, I guess, if your network "allows" that) 19:21:11 lets try moving this drive to an enclosure 19:21:22 figure if i can isolate the drive issue.. ti is just that raspberry pi of enclosures.. 19:22:05 yeah that's fine, I suspect it's some stale files in /var/db/freebsd-update 19:23:28 if xmj is right then you should definitely be able to update from an ancient version 19:23:33 (via the regular channels) 19:26:55 dang it.. 19:27:19 what was that gpart command again? sorry.. did not write it down 19:27:58 just type "gpart" and hit enter - it's fairly self explanatory 19:28:16 18:59, voy4g3r2, gpart destroy -F da3 19:28:16 ? 19:29:29 freebsd-update fetch / install first did it 19:29:32 then upgrade works 19:29:35 go figure 19:30:09 nice! seems like xmj was correct about ancient updates still being available - nice! :) 19:31:34 how can it not be supported 19:31:44 # gpart create -s GPT da0 19:31:45 gpart: provider: Operation not supported by device 19:31:55 is that just a permissions thing? 19:32:11 i am as root under su 19:32:18 or as Remilia said early on: DOA 19:34:06 time to figure out hte RMA process.. 19:38:17 or i can just go to the dang store i bought it.. no restock fee 19:38:50 is there a wireless-network-management system that works on freebsd? as in, configure some small embedded systems as access points, and have them connect back to a central server for configuration and authentication, like Ubiquiti or MikroTik or whatever 19:39:57 unixwitch: iirc i got the ubiquiti one working on freebsd. it's just a java jar 19:40:19 rtprio: does that require ubiqtuiti APs? i was looking for something non-proprietary (otherwise i'll just stay with mikrotik) 19:40:27 as in, freebsd controller + freebsd APs 19:41:18 rel ubiquity controller on freebsd: https://blog.insane.engineer/post/freebsd_unifi7/ 19:41:18 i don't think you'll find one of those. yes, their management requires ubiquiti APs 19:41:20 Title: UniFi 7 controller on FreeBSD 19:41:26 yes, you need their APs 19:41:45 hm, shame. surprised this doesn't exist, but i guess most people who want this just pay the $$$ 19:41:49 I am actually looking for a different solutions. I didn't have good times with ubiquity gear the last two years. 19:44:56 i mean, with puppet (or hand spun gui) and a few freebsd systems with wifi cards you could make this i guess 19:45:18 but a university or corporation aren't going to deal with it 19:47:55 i also am not sure most wifi drivers on freebsd give you the ability to run multiple AP's on the same card? 19:47:59 rtprio: i'm not sure a solution like that would support .11k (or whatever the current version is)? 19:50:24 then again mikrotik still doesn't do .11k anyway... although it's supposed to be coming soon 19:50:46 rtprio, part of the issue would be to handle the handover from one station to the other. not sure how you'd address that with puppet 19:50:57 containing woes of kerberos: postgresql 16 doesn't build with base Heimdal, it's missing a gss function it wants :( 19:51:05 s/containing/continuing 19:51:50 jbo: i forgot about that. freebsd is by and large not up to the task 19:52:06 jbo: that's what i mean by .11k 19:52:24 unixwitch, I'm not familiar with the wifi lingo, apologies :) 19:52:29 is it .11v now? too many wifi standards to keep up with... 19:52:56 seriously 19:53:22 i noticed .11ax is out now and we haven't even upgraded to .11ac 19:53:27 I know very little about 802.11 but I feel like that's one of those standards that got out of hand :D 19:54:19 oh no that's wrong... we're on .11ac, .11be is the new thing. so i guess we're only one version behind since .11be isn't out yet 19:54:43 I dunno, I'm still working with the 2.5MB/s I get on my laptop 19:55:04 we do have net/wifibox for the inclined ones 19:55:54 bz@ is still working on iwlwifi (I hope) 19:56:52 jbo, Do you use wifibox yourself? (I do) 19:56:59 i might just buy my users some USB-C Ethernet dongles for their phones 19:57:56 job, I took "we do have net/wifibox for the inclined ones" to mean that you do|would not? 19:58:24 Sorry, I meant to address jbo ^ 19:59:14 parv, I don't. I am one of those "the leaner the better" type people. 19:59:30 so I'd rather deal with 25 Mbps than having a freaking linux vm running to proxy my card 19:59:52 jbo, Understood; thanks 20:00:58 parv, from what I have heard, it works well tho. Personally, I would just set it up myself rather than running some obscure 3rd-party provided VM that gets untethered access to my network card 20:01:55 FTFMP: "wifibox deploys a Linux guest operating system with the help of bhyve(8) ..." Heh, I'd just roll out a home built tiny Linux device if I want to roll my own AP. No need for the overhead of FreeBSD + bhyve. ;) TBH, I'd truly prefer to roll out a home built tiny FreeBSD device, but we're not *there* yet. 20:02:58 unixman_home: i believe this is for using unsupported wifi cards on desktop/laptops, rather than for APs 20:03:55 unixman_home, But using an AP & having to be able to connect to said AP from FreeBSD (due to lacking support for speed or at all) are two different things when 20:04:19 unixwitch, parv, ah, that makes more sense. I was looking at the mention of AP above and was thinking that was the recommendation for a FreeBSD AP. 20:04:22 s/when// 20:07:34 * unixman_home needs to find a good used laptop on which to play with FreeBSD. Then he can join in and commiserate. ;) 20:12:14 unixman_home, go grab some ThinkPad would be my recommendation. 20:13:35 jbo, yep, that has been a recommendation for a long time now in the FreeBSD camp. 20:13:56 I'm currently using a Carbon X1 Gen9 if that is helpful 20:14:28 but that's mostly because I work on desktop machines and only need a laptop for on-the road stuff so smaller/lighter is preferred. Also had a P2000 mobile workstation with a xeon, ECC memory and quadro running FreeBSD. that was fun too. 20:15:14 I am not going to be getting anything soon. I need to pay off the credit card bill for Christmas first. ;) 20:15:38 yeah, I am currently also living off of water and toast sandwiches :D 20:15:46 :D 20:15:54 I guess vodka is cheaper than whisky 20:19:48 voy4g3r2: btw what make/model is that HDD? 20:20:23 Remilia about to update the HDD bingo spreadsheet 20:20:33 haha 20:20:56 as the year ends, I'd just like to take a moment and publicly claim that FreeBSD rocks 20:20:58 5 commits says it's a WD device 20:21:09 I mean, I had quite a load of HDD reliability data back when I worked at a data-centre 20:21:13 it's so much better than Linux distros, in every imaginable way 20:21:13 last1 +1 better tell the cool kids over at reddit tho 20:22:23 jbo: WD is a lottery, 'was this made at their Seagate factory? no? you might have won as long as it is not the problematic WD factory' 20:22:49 never had any issues with enterprise drives 20:22:51 still feels incredibly insane to me that the mergers were just allowed 20:23:09 gold enterprise / hgst are just rock solid 20:23:19 Remilia, funny that you say that. I hear so many people fame about WD but I had so many lottery experiences with them. I didn't know that they produce partly at seagate but fun fact: once I finally was fed up with WD I only bought Seagate and I am happy since. 20:24:00 Remilia, are you saying that the WD drives fabbed at Seagate are the worse or the better WDs? 20:24:04 i found myself happier buying more expensive drives with the 5 year warranties 20:24:08 in the long run 20:24:26 pretty much all my systems run IronWolf Pro these days 20:24:39 jbo: a very small % of WD drives is outsourced to seagate and they are Bad 20:24:59 Remilia, interesting - what are your experiences/opinions on straight seagate disks? 20:25:05 while WD's ex-HGST drives are still made at IBM's former factories 20:25:17 jbo: I always had really really bad luck with them 20:25:32 Remilia, that's interesting. Seagate is the only brand I never had problems with so far :/ 20:25:43 WDs used to die left and right in my scenarios. 20:26:31 at the data-centre WD and Seagate comprised about 80% of the total and had failure rates above 15% over year-after-purchase 20:26:46 WD had ≈12-13%, Seagate was at 18% iirc 20:26:53 hmmm 20:27:07 Hitachi was at 0.8% and Samsung at 1.5% 20:27:33 do note this is from more than a decade ago 20:27:42 https://www.backblaze.com/blog/backblaze-drive-stats-for-q1-2023/ 20:27:43 Title: Backblaze Drive Stats for Q1 2023 20:27:59 I am subscribed to their reports yeah 20:28:14 it seems like they got better 20:28:20 does look like Seagate is not doing great comparably on first glance 20:28:23 note Backblaze mostly use consumer, not enterprise, drives 20:28:28 oh 20:28:33 yeah hence I said "first glance" 20:28:42 I don't even bother putting consumer drives into a desktop 20:29:12 I ran consumer Hitachi/HGST drives since 2010 in my desktop PCs and servers with zero issues 20:29:21 until I dropped one at the airport haha 20:29:51 it developed like 40 bad blocks 20:30:27 aye 20:30:31 alright, time to leave the office o/ 20:37:39 those are consumer grade drives 20:40:11 ok, speaking of drives 20:40:37 i have 93,728 hours on my drive. how much longer can it go? 20:45:23 rtprio: 10 and a half years. With drives old like this I usually had problems to get them running once they stopped spinning (due to power outage) 20:48:31 that is weird 20:48:45 all my HGSTs from 2010 spin up just fine haha 20:50:31 well that was easier than RMA.. they took the hard drive back and are like.. this is the 4th one this week.. 20:50:39 errr!! if that was the case, you should just remove from the shelf 20:50:50 Well, have to admit the last drives getting that old where 2 pound scsi ones :) 20:51:10 seere: funny story, i had to replace a raid card in this box and when i turned it on again the bios battery was dea 20:53:48 so i finally got Tokodon (KDE Mastodon client) working, after installing a bunch of stuff related to gnome-keyring, and... honestly, it's not really that good. are there any other desktop fedi clients that aren't based on electron? 20:55:07 unixwitch: how do you feel about `toot' ? 20:55:37 i thought that was for iOS, or is there another project with the same name? 20:57:16 https://toot.bezdomni.net/ 20:57:17 Title: Introduction - toot 20:57:18 it's tui 20:57:59 hmm, that doesn't look terrible, thanks 20:59:46 elk is another one i liked, but it's not desktop: https://elk.zone/ 21:02:17 ouch, ports version is toot looks pretty outdated 21:02:20 s/is/of 21:02:29 i think i just used pip 21:06:16 outdated means it might work with non-mastodon instances! ahaha 21:07:51 oh this issue wasn't because it's outdated, it's https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=274411 21:07:53 Title: 274411 – devel/py-urwid Update to 2.2.x breaks several python packages 21:09:31 enough of this crap.. a trip to a microcenter.com is in order 21:09:41 hodge podge of stuff is just pointless.. 21:10:06 25k square feet of computer stuff.. there HAS to be a machine somewhere. 21:38:37 Python and Ruby seem to have such tightly coupled packages. Updates seem to be a struggle, every time. 21:39:52 i'm not sure if there's something stalling the fix for this, it's been in maintainer-approval? since november 21:46:06 The maintainer is python@ 21:48:53 maybe they're waiting for https://reviews.freebsd.org/D39288 to land, although that's been in review since march 21:48:55 Title: ⚙ D39288 devel/py-setuptools_scm: update to 8.0.4 21:53:01 i'm starting to think just installing python stuff via pip might be easier :-) 21:58:45 unixwitch: given the python package version requirements, virtualenv and pip may be a good solution in many cases 21:58:57 yeah, one virtualenv per app, or whatever 21:59:10 although that sounds like hell to keep up to date... perhaps there's an app for that 22:00:25 i think this is just a rough period for python right now with the PEP-517 updates 22:00:34 or python ports, i should say 22:00:46 The very reason i trudge though packages not to need to use single versions of packages. You quickly loose track. 22:16:52 taking inspiration from meena who told me to annoy people to get things done, i mailed -ports about this... 22:30:03 Hi! is it possible to change the boot device ? i copied a disk (with dd) (ada0) to a (nvme0) and now freebsd fails to boot with: Starting filesystem checks: Cant open /dev/ada0p1 UNEXPECTED INCONSISTENCY.. THE FOLLOWING FILESYSTEM HAD AN UNEXPECTED INCONSISTENCY: msdosfs: /dev/ada0p1 (/boot/efi) 22:31:08 oh its the fstab entry ? 22:31:18 hernan: yes, edit fstab to replace ada0 with whatever your new disk is called 22:31:28 probably either nda0 or nvd0 22:31:53 ok thanks 22:35:42 heh: 220-mx1.freebsd.org ESMTP Postfix (Postfix FTW!) 23:18:37 is there no way to view https://portscout.freebsd.org/ by port rather than by maintainer? 23:18:39 Title: portscout - new distfile scanner 23:19:17 unixwitch: have you heard of pipx? 23:19:36 Also, very happy to be an inspiration 23:19:46 i have not heard of that 23:20:09 "It is not recommended to install pipx via pipx" Inception fail 23:20:46 ah so this is like ports for python 23:20:55 oh well, nothing is perfect, certainly nothing that's used for packaging 23:21:41 you install python binaries in their own venv, you can also chose which python to use 23:21:55 but... i feel like for the benefit of the User Community(tm) it's better to fix broken python ports rather than give up and use this 23:22:45 what happen to gnome cant install it doest see it in the repos 23:23:16 richard_: what package are you installing? 23:23:22 x11/gnome? 23:23:53 well before i did pkg install gnome but now it doest work 23:24:07 what error do you get? 23:25:11 pkg: No packages available to install matching 'gnome' have been found in the repositories 23:25:20 what freebsd version? 23:25:27 14 23:26:22 that's odd because http://pkg.freebsd.org/FreeBSD:14:amd64/quarterly/packagesite.txz does have gnome in it 23:26:30 what did they change it to 23:26:35 richard_: can you paste the contents of /etc/pkg/FreeBSD.conf, and do you have and files in /usr/local/etc/pkg? 23:26:56 oh, and what arch are you on? amd64 or something else? 23:28:11 s/and files/any files 23:29:53 i gave mutt another try and with this new sidebar thing it's a lot better for managing multiple accounts 23:30:18 still takes way too much effort to configure (they really need some sort of 'account' concept in the config) but i think it'll do 23:32:32 https://bsd.to/izGu 23:32:34 Title: dpaste/izGu (Plain Text) 23:33:52 richard_: any files in /usr/local/etc/pkg? and what is the output of 'uname -m'? 23:35:35 repos 23:35:43 richard_: any files inside repos? 23:36:05 Remilia, still up? 23:36:17 so the freebsd 2024 survey asks if i "primarily" use freebsd on servers, desktops, or laptops. i have 1 server, 1 desktop, and 1 laptop running freebsd. so... i don't know how to answer this? 23:36:27 FreeBSD.conf 23:36:36 all the below 23:36:38 richard_: paste the contents of FreeBSD.conf? 23:36:47 unixwitch, I had similar issues. I have 8 servers, 3 desktops and 1 laptop .__. 23:36:47 AumShivaya: it is a single-answer question! 23:37:05 and a hand full of networking gear running bare bone FreeBSD ofc 23:37:15 jbo: i actually have 2 servers running freebsd if you count my secondary DNS VPS... so... i guess i'll say servers! 23:37:16 FreeBSD: { url: "pkg+http://pkg.FreeBSD.org/${ABI}/latest" } 23:37:29 unixwitch, I decided to choose "server" because I don't want them to think that they should spend money/effort on trying to make a fucked up desktop OS :D 23:39:01 I just don't really see a point in making a desktop OS if you can have a well engineered, robust and performant server OS on which you can just install desktop components. 23:39:04 richard_: it seems like the latest pkg build does not include gnome. i do not know why that is, but you could ask on freebsd-ports@ mailing list, or on the forum, if no one here knows. quarterly does seem to include gnome. 23:39:38 amd64 23:39:59 I use FreeBSD as a desktop, I feel it is fine, but not for Steam gaming. Oh well. 23:40:24 AumShivaya: have you tried to steam gaming ? 23:40:25 its on a vm 23:40:27 Still prefer FreeBSD over Linux. I do not know why 23:40:36 yeah, I have steam installed under linux emulation 23:40:43 "How long have you been using FreeBSD?" 23:40:46 tried installing/playing 3 games, nope. 23:41:04 debian sid is on my hardware 23:41:11 AumShivaya: it works ? i never tested 23:41:39 well, it doesn't load any games properly so not worth 23:41:47 but the Steam UI looks ok 23:41:48 ok 23:42:03 Probably I could try more/different games but nah 23:42:35 but it works what you gave me though x11/gnome 23:42:52 AumShivaya, https://github.com/shkhln/linuxulator-steam-utils/wiki/Compatibility 23:42:53 Title: Compatibility · shkhln/linuxulator-steam-utils Wiki · GitHub 23:42:58 "Performance is a major security consideration for server workloads" what does this mean 23:43:05 that's 131 playable games 23:43:15 okay, but I do not think it would have any games that I play 23:43:27 plus I do not think that controllers work on FreeBSD Steam 23:43:33 especially not via bluetooth 23:43:54 I learned to separate gaming hardware from productive hardware a long time ago 23:43:57 so I just boot in to Linux on the rare chance I feel like playing a game 23:44:03 makes sense 23:44:13 the only game I feel like playing these days is factorio :x 23:44:33 i've been meaning to Factorio and X4 on freebsd. those are the only games i actually like nowadays 23:44:34 Hi! i copied an hdd with dd, and now it stops the boot process after i select option [1] in beastie (the normal boot).. it displays: Loading kernel... /boot/kernel/.. and then stops with: Start @ 0xffffffff8038b000 ... EFI framebuffer information... dimensions 1920 x 1080 -- what could be wrong ? 23:44:42 and they both have Linux versions, which is promising 23:45:09 unixwitch, what's x4? 23:45:42 oh, scifi simulator thingy - nice 23:45:50 jbo: do you know Elite? imagine Elite, but single player, but with the ability to build space stations and actually influence the economy and take over the universe (if you want) 23:46:15 unixwitch, factorio is really just SDL2 with everything else written in custom C++. I asked them do provide a freebsd build but they were "nah, we're doing nintendo switch instead" :< 23:46:21 (Nintendo switch is basically freebsd) 23:46:37 to be fair, PlayStation is also basically freebsd but we can't run PS games :-D 23:46:47 yeah, I'm not complaining :D 23:46:49 unixwitch, that sounds lovely 23:46:51 unixwitch, also, pm 23:47:10 although it would be nice if they'd do like a Quake-style thing where they release the source to the engine but you still have to buy the data files 23:47:28 the "problem" I have with factorio is that I know how low effort it would be to provide FreeBSD builds compared to other games. But I fully understand why they are not doing that. 23:47:29 jbo: i saw your PM but i am just like "... yeah" so not sure how to reply :D 23:47:44 fair enough 23:48:17 unixwitch, I'd argue that factorio is a lot more engine than assets compared to an arena shooter. 23:48:48 yeah, maybe 23:49:02 i guess if they did release the engine source, it would be like OpenTTD where someone comes along and replaces all the sprites 23:49:42 i can't answer "Which sources do you use most for help with FreeBSD?" becuase you can only give five answers, wtf 23:51:25 only select freebsd journal and move on to the next question :p 23:51:27 (obviously kidding) 23:52:07 i deslected 'wiki' because it's usually the last place i go 23:52:39 it gave me what i wanted ty 23:55:21 "It’s unclear if or when my code will be reviewed" well i'm glad they asked about this one at least 23:56:40 although "Do you consider yourself... A committer?" is a weird question. that's not something you 'consider' yourself, you either are or you aren't 23:57:10 Remilia: it was a wd blue.. don't buy a wd blue.. 23:57:57 voy4g3r2, if it helps, I made good experiences with ST10000NE0004-1ZF101 so far 23:58:45 jbo: i got a 3 toshiba drives 23:58:55 and a motherboard, some ram, a case.. power supply 23:59:03 microcenter.com is evil! 23:59:33 unixwitch: some projects welcome people who are committed much sooner as committers than FreeBSD. And some people have enough imposter syndrome that they could have commit bit too src docs and ports and go, yeah, but this is just a hobby, you know 23:59:48 i suppose