00:23:55 Macer: that's quite a few drives in that pool 00:33:09 hye, I'm trying to install freebsd in a vm on linux, and am getting this error: CAM status: CCB request completed with an error 00:34:22 at what point do you see this error. are you installing under kvm or what 00:34:59 yes, qemu/kvm. here's a screenshot: https://0x0.st/HwyK.png 00:35:33 I can also upload the libvirt xml, if needed 00:43:00 no ideas? 00:54:12 olk, The read-only file system status looks not-good. Since you are installing it will need to be be writing data to there. So the first task will be to figure out why it is read-only. 00:54:18 Did the host system run out of disk space? 00:55:12 nope. I even turned of the read-only flag on the emulated usb install media in virt-manager 00:55:19 *off 00:56:21 https://0x0.st/Hwyb.png 00:58:20 But you are using the USB disk to install from, so that one won't be the issue. It will be the VirtIO disk that you are installing to that will be of interest. 00:58:41 Also, why are you using a USB disk mount? Why is it not a cdrom mount? 01:00:53 because cd-rom mount with memsick image causes entirely different issue: https://0x0.st/Hwyc.png 01:01:17 olk, Here is a working FreeBSD 13.1 libvirt xml file from here for you to compare. https://termbin.com/6y2i 01:02:31 Why are you building a VM using UEFI? It's more trouble. Easier to use Legacy BIOS for VMs. However they do work if you have the ovmf package installed. 01:02:39 here's the disk I'm installing to: https://0x0.st/HwyT.png 01:03:12 I suggest building a VM using Legacy BIOS boot first because that is simple. And then after that is working then build one booting UEFI. 01:04:13 That last paste looks reasonable, though mine says "Hypervisor default" for both of those. 01:04:37 I need UEFI for a feature I want to test before going bare-metal. and here's my xml, it shows that I have ovmf installed and needed file chosen: https://bsd.to/wgYL 01:04:38 Title: dpaste/wgYL (Plain Text) 01:05:30 here's the feature: https://github.com/sadaszewski/freebsd-patch-geli-password-from-tpm2 01:05:31 Title: GitHub - sadaszewski/freebsd-patch-geli-password-from-tpm2: A patch for the FreeBSD source tree which enables fetching of GELI password from TPM2 and booting a trusted root filesystem 01:08:18 rwp: I have the same issue with the second option set to hypervisor default 01:10:37 I think the option-discard-mode:unmap is actually the default. But it made me wonder if when creating the VM if FreeBSD was selected in order to set most of the configuration to template values for it or not. 01:11:13 I selected freebsd13.1 template, yes 01:11:20 and edited it 01:13:19 Editing it is the only way to select UEFI. I usually let it default to the other values. I note yours is changed to Q35 but the default is i440FX. I don't know if that is important for this or not. 01:13:59 I suggest creating a VM using all of the defaults and a default installation to keep things simple. That works for me. Then repeat the installation changing one thing at a time. That should isolate where things become trouble. 01:14:29 uefi doesn't work with non q35 models 01:14:57 and the bios installation is worthless to me :) 01:15:32 I guess freebsd wasn't tested on kvm+uefi 01:16:57 I am sure that kvm+qemu+uefi was not tested on FreeBSD! 01:17:27 I'll try a VM creation here and see what problems I hit. 01:17:49 thanks a lot 01:17:52 UEFI for all systems has been nothing but a long path of thorns. 01:19:07 quick question: is secure boot a thing on freebsd? 01:20:16 I don't know. I am just a simple user. But I don't use it anywhere. 01:21:58 I have a great secureboot+fde+tpm setup on linux, but want to try freebsd 01:25:18 I am basically also finding it impossible to install 14.0R this way too. I am thinking of dropping back to installing 13 and then doing an in-vm upgrade to 14. 01:26:39 so it's a bug 01:29:04 UEFI? Yes. I would definitely agree with that assessment. But UEFI is being forced upon everyone regardless. 01:33:56 rwp: Allan Jude said he made a faster way to rename them :) 01:34:11 i'm just waiting for it to resilver and i already added all the labels.. i just have to do the thing 01:35:42 rtprio: it has 12 disks raidz2 01:36:00 - 1 hot spare 01:36:30 plus... damn matrix turning + into a bullet point 01:39:40 Macer, It looks like you are in good shape, with just a long time ahead of you spinning disks sync'ing data. But you can get there one disk at a time okay. I have done that before. 01:40:15 sure. the only time it was a problem was when it was resilvering the first disk failure with the hot spare and the 2nd disk died lol 01:40:17 that was a little nail biting 01:41:00 now that the hot spare is fully resilvered i'm not really on pins and needles. i have the 2 new drives resilvering at the same time now so i'll just wait it out for 5 more hours or so 01:41:25 but at least this made me work on the gpt labeling of the partitions so i can keep better track of what breaks 01:41:57 Macer, Just for comparison, this is how I labeled my disks. I used somewhat shorter names here. https://bsd.to/iz9Q/raw 01:41:58 Title: iz9Q 01:42:43 ah. i put coordinates of my nas in too heh.. plus the brand and serial 01:43:24 at least then i quickly say 'oh... another barracuda died' 01:43:29 *can 01:47:00 I am using the bay number plus the driver serial number. 01:49:29 olk left but I have tried a bunch of combinations and I cannot get FreeBSD to boot UEFI in a VM. I can boot Devuan (Debian fork) UEFI in a VM okay though. 01:50:21 do you need efi for fbsd in a vm? 01:50:33 i thought it does legacy booting just fine 01:53:06 Macer, olk above just before you came back says it is needed to test this feature patch: https://github.com/sadaszewski/freebsd-patch-geli-password-from-tpm2 01:53:07 Title: GitHub - sadaszewski/freebsd-patch-geli-password-from-tpm2: A patch for the FreeBSD source tree which enables fetching of GELI password from TPM2 and booting a trusted root filesystem 01:53:30 oh 01:54:01 I have booted Devuan on UEFI in libvirt VMs often so I assumed it would work in FreeBSD too. But responding to olk I have to eat my words and say that I can't get FreeBSD to boot UEFI in KVM+QEMU either. 01:54:52 oddly enough in proxmox i was able to get macos to boot in a vm with efi and opencore 01:54:54 heh 01:55:35 Previously on bare metal I have had mixed results with FreeBSD UEFI depending upon the specific system. I always blamed the UEFI firmware because my UEFI booting systems all have buggy firmware anyway. I have one workstation that UEFI seems to work okay and one laptop and the rest all seem to be trouble. I have frustrated myself wrestling with UEFI on them and given up more than succeeded. 01:56:11 bbiab 03:16:38 i am going to throw it out there.. i am setting up netatalk for time machine backsup, i can get the "homes" share to work but not the timemachine one.. has anyone ever worked with netatalk recently? https://bsd.to/eat7 <---configuration file as it stands now 03:16:39 Title: dpaste/eat7 (Plain Text) 03:19:49 the [homes] one shows up.. but NEVER the second one 03:19:59 rwp: i moved over to openzfs with those drives :) 03:20:38 https://pastebin.com/wQ9kqrDQ 03:20:39 Title: powerd not working - Pastebin.com 03:20:48 so i'm trying to get powerd to throttle my cpus and they don't seem to be throttling 03:20:53 not really sure what i'm doing wrong here 03:30:38 ah so powerdxx seems to have slowed it down 03:30:48 wow so i've been running the cpus maxed for years and never even noticed 03:30:52 * Macer facepalms 03:43:23 well having variables in path variable is NOT good.. 10:41:59 Hi 10:42:02 hi all 10:46:51 hi 11:03:49 Hi, I have now upgraded to 14-RELEASE and the upgrade went smooth. I will not update ZFS for now, that will be done in a week or two from now. 11:03:50 After the update to 14 I also upgraded my jails with ezjail-admin. The upgrade procedure went through without errors. Thereafter I rebooted the machine. 11:03:50 Now I can not use "su" after getting a root shell one of the jails with "sudo jexec " so "sudo jexec 1 sh". The error I get is "su: pam_start: System error". I have compared pam.d/su on the host and the jail and they look identical to me. 11:04:59 I have also done the following: 11:04:59 sudo pkg --jail=testingjail upgrade -f 11:05:00 sudo pkg --jail=testingjail check -Ba 11:05:00 sudo pkg --jail=testingjail check -da 11:05:59 "sudo ezjail-admin console testingjail" returns error 1 11:08:10 "jls" reports all the jails as running with correct path, ip, etc 11:14:06 found the following in the jails auth.log "in openpam_load_module(): no pam_opie.so found" that should narrow it down a bit 11:21:13 fgrep opie /etc/pam.d/* 11:21:21 (inside each jail) 11:23:00  https://your.ls/amkqa 11:23:02 Title: Paste.to 11:23:04 seems to be present 11:24:17 you need to get rid of those 11:25:24 Is opie a one time password module for pam? 11:25:35 was 11:25:56 I wonder where that came from. I have no recollection of installing that but these jails have been living with me for a long time. They are like pets :-) 11:26:33 * thorre fires up an editor 11:34:40 My jails are coming up one by one now. Removing "opie" from pam.d/* in the jails seems to do the trick. 11:43:09 * thorre switching over to his IRC-jail 11:56:29 what was the reasoning for not enabling block-cloning by default? 11:56:49 are there any problems with the feature? 11:58:18 (I mean with zfs 2.2 in 14.0-RELEASE) 12:00:46 oooh, checked the release notes for zfs 2.2, and 12:00:55 ... a block cloning bug (#15526) that can result in data corruption ... 12:01:03 I guess that answers my question 12:01:41 this sucks, I was really looking forward to that feature :( 12:25:57 which public pgp key server has the freebsd key to verify the checksums for 14.0? 12:27:06 as usual this feature will be better in future 12:32:38 can someone sign the checksums with a valid pgp key? 12:52:51 voy4g3r2: have you figured it out and do you have a specific howto/tutorial to recommend? I'm about to embark in the netatalk/tm journey myself 12:54:45 clemens3: The release announcement contains information about the signatures. https://www.freebsd.org/releases/14.0R/announce/ 12:54:46 Title: FreeBSD 14.0-RELEASE Announcement | The FreeBSD Project 12:56:27 https://docs.freebsd.org/en/articles/pgpkeys/ 12:56:28 Title: OpenPGP Keys | FreeBSD Documentation Portal 12:56:40 Does core FreeBSD not support wifi roaming? 12:56:52 clemens3: They public keys you are searching for should be available via the link above 12:57:44 I've never found hashes of files to be useful 12:59:12 I guess it has a place if you're using a mirror 12:59:28 veg: I have this running locally since a while, but https://dan.langille.org/2023/09/24/moving-time-capsule-from-host-to-jail-and-connecting-my-macbook-to-zfs-on-freebsd/ and his earlier https://dan.langille.org/2017/04/19/creating-an-apple-time-capsule-using-freebsd/ covers it 12:59:29 Title: Moving time capsule from host to jail and connecting my MacBook to ZFS on FreeBSD – Dan Langille's Other Diary 12:59:57 dch: And Mine hasn't been working lately, I have not figured out why. 13:00:34 dvl I should check ours and see how its going. I tell the kids, the mac has no backups, keep your work on the server where it belongs... 13:00:58 thanks, I love the 2023 time tag :) 13:05:52 thorre: thanks, will look into the pgpkeys page! 13:06:37 Remilia: Have you figured it out? (Periodic issue) - I wonder. 13:09:56 thorre: well, it has a lot of data, importing. let's see... 13:11:20 tercaL: no 13:11:27 veg: yes i was, i used this as a baseline http://blog.khubla.com/freebsd/time-machine-backups-using-freebsd-zfs and here is my conf i got to.. not 100% aligned to the entry but gives an idea: https://bsd.to/Hnqj 13:11:29 it is even more shocking today 13:11:34 Title: dpaste/Hnqj (Plain Text) 13:11:42 i may end up doing a little more playing.. but first i have to move the 230 gig of stuff :) 13:11:59 but I found what is using 100% of a core, it is the kernel 13:12:40 at 03:00 today load avg jumped by 1.0 like every night since the 14.0 upgrade but this time it never dropped back down 13:12:43 veg: i ony have 1 user, using time machine, and the CNID database and other stuff seemed excessive.. 13:12:57 plus i was having headaches with getting it to work.. so i stripped it down till it worked :) 13:13:34 Remilia: Is that a VPS? An instance of a vmware or such kind? 13:13:55 it is a guaranteed-cores VPS from netcup 13:14:12 Remilia: Could you please try adding this into rc.conf file and check one night; 13:14:18 devmatch_blacklist="virtio_random.ko" 13:14:39 and ofc, reboot the system after adding it 13:14:54 the module is not loaded 13:15:22 it does not show up in kldstat at the moment 13:15:26 kldstat or kldlist wouldn't list it. 13:15:30 as it's embedded - I think. 13:15:51 once, I solved my VPS, kernel using 100% of a core, with that line. 13:15:56 Still having it. 13:17:57 the hypervisor is KVM hmm 13:18:29 weird that I had zero issues with 13.2 13:20:35 thorre: ok, it works! thanks 13:21:28 clemens3: glad I could help you. 13:22:17 tercaL: the man page for virtio_random says you need to explicitly include it in your configuration for it to be built in 13:24:13 Remilia: https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla//show_bug.cgi?id=254513 13:24:15 Title: 254513 – virtio_random: random_harvestq spinning on a CPU with Q35 virtio random device 13:26:11 tercaL: I think this is great because this bug was fixed and because I used 13.x without issues before and because my kern.conftxt does not include any mentions of virtio_random 13:27:01 and because CPU usage is not in rand_harvestq 13:27:55 thorre: if I may do an addendum:). the first link about the announcement, I don't see a link to the second keyring page?! Maybe I overlooked it. If it is missing, you have to go to the public key servers, which are not up to date. While with the information you gave me it is all fine.. let me look again. 13:28:22 tercaL: i think we should close that. it's fixed in 14.0. although maybe we should backport it to 13.x 13:28:51 I found the page via a webserarch. Usually I am satisfied with checking the MD5 sum after a iso download. 13:29:25 Remilia: try the hotkernel script (https://docs.freebsd.org/en/books/handbook/dtrace/#dtrace-using) 13:29:25 And yes, "just because you think that they are not out to get you does not mean that they are not out to get you". 13:29:26 Title: Chapter 27. DTrace | FreeBSD Documentation Portal 13:29:28 https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=269823#c13 i already said that here 13:29:30 Title: 269823 – rand_harvest produces 100%CPU on 1 CPU with virtio_random.ko loaded 13:30:31 yuripv: I get kernel`acpi_cpu_c1 254458 82.5% 13:31:04 and if you use -m for modules? 13:31:28 the first or the second link? 13:31:37 sorry, redundant line 13:31:54 yuripv: if you mean hotkernel -m: kernel 197287 99.8% 13:32:16 thorre: ok, yeah, so you knew this keyring existed, I search for key server and couldn't find anything 13:32:29 so imho this info is missing on the announcement page 13:33:13 yuripv: to rewind back a bit, this started at 03:00 (periodic run) on the night after I upgraded to 14.0-RELEASE, and until today, the spike usually lasted no more than 2.5 hours 13:33:38 Remilia: that really looks familiar, I don't know if I've seen this before myself or just in bugzilla 13:34:49 yuripv: upgrade was on the evening of the 18th of November: https://i.koumakan.jp/2023-11-25/1700919264.png 13:36:30 you can see that before that, periodic tasks did spike the usage but not for long 13:36:49 this is a netcup 'root server' VPS with guaranteed cores, seems to be under KVM 13:37:31 I feel responsible cuz i touched some of that code 13:37:53 (no, wait, that was something else) 13:39:21 * meena mumbles something about dyslexia 13:40:13 well, acpi_cpu_c1() is "idle" 13:42:03 top shows 'swapin' as the state but that probably means nothing 13:43:55 clemens3: Maybe it's time to submit a problem report? https://docs.freebsd.org/en/articles/problem-reports/ 13:43:56 Title: Writing FreeBSD Problem Reports | FreeBSD Documentation Portal 13:46:14 yuripv: the other high % are kernel`lock_delay 1147 4.1% and kernel`vnlru_free_impl 3002 10.7% 13:46:19 Remilia: not running out of memory and heavily swapping? 13:46:33 Mem: 7578M Active, 16G Inact, 3140M Laundry, 3701M Wired, 764K Buf, 695M Free / Swap: 32G Total, 633M Used, 31G Free, 1% Inuse 13:46:52 with 16G inactive it probably should not swap much? 13:50:59 yuripv: systat -vmstat shows no swap paging but lots under 'VN PAGER' which I am not sure what is 14:00:42 What is the default/standard/shipping version of python in freebsd 14? 14:01:11 it is not tied to freebsd version 14:01:29 There's no python in FreeBSDs base system. 14:01:52 thorre: it is 3.9 so far 14:02:16 Ok, thank you angry_vincent. It has not changed since 13.2 then. 14:02:18 I am not sure it is 3.9 14:02:26 The meta-port called lang/python is 3.9, but DEFAULT_VERSION in make.conf(5) can change that if you build stuff. 14:02:29 Remilia: it is. 14:02:36 Remilia: i guess it has something to do with vnodes (see also the vnlru_free_impl above) 14:02:39 oh 14:02:45 thorre: again, it has nothing to do with freebsd version 14:02:46 debdrup: That was the info I was searching for. Thank you. 14:02:49 are you running out kern.maxvnodes may be? 14:02:53 I was looking at the wrong package 14:03:08 yuripv: I am currently looking at it and I guess I might be 14:03:11 thorre: you can also check https://www.freshports.org/lang/python#packages as an example to see what version are available on what specific ABI tuples. 14:03:13 Title: FreshPorts -- lang/python: "meta-port" for the default version of Python interpreter 14:03:14 but I have no idea *why* 14:03:19 Remilia: https://cgit.freebsd.org/ports/tree/Mk/bsd.default-versions.mk#n142 14:03:20 Title: bsd.default-versions.mk « Mk - ports - FreeBSD ports tree 14:03:50 debdrup: Teach a man to fish .... 14:04:14 angry_vincent: that's where a ports committer would change it, yes - but DEFAULT_VERSION in make.conf(5) is where a user should change it. 14:04:50 yuripv: bumped maxvnodes three times but it did not change the picture 14:05:01 Oh, it's DEFAULT_VERSIONS 14:05:03 think I will try stopping some jails and see which one does this 14:05:04 https://wiki.freebsd.org/Ports/DEFAULT_VERSIONS 14:05:05 Title: Ports/DEFAULT_VERSIONS - FreeBSD Wiki 14:05:42 It's rather handy to be able to set versions like that for an entire tree of managed software if you're custom-building ports. 14:06:28 thorre: Yeah, that's always been my basic philosophy when helping people :) 14:06:37 vfs.freevnodes: 364540 / vfs.numvnodes: 599039 / vfs.wantfreevnodes: 375000 14:06:50 kern.maxvnodes is 1500000 14:06:57 If people are receptive to it, it makes it less likely that they need help in the future, and more likely they might be able to help someone else. 14:07:21 thorre: ok, thanks! 14:07:27 will look into it 14:11:41 veg: heads up the first backup takes FOREVER.. 14:13:13 yuripv: I am starting to suspect that something fails to release vnodes 14:14:17 debdrup: Thank you, I appreciate it. 14:14:34 debdrup: i know 14:16:13 actually it may of been he OneDrive location that got in there that as causing headaches.. removed that directory and he backups are MUCH faster 14:32:56 yuripv: post-reboot, vfs.numvnodes is 92473 and CPU usage is fine 14:33:13 but stopping jails and all services prior to reboot did not help 14:42:24 veg: https://man.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?query=afp.conf <-this is also very helpful to read through, some tweaking was possible with stuff.. like i never under mimic model option until that conf explained it more 14:42:25 Title: afp.conf 15:06:21 https://github.com/openzfs/zfs/issues/15526#issuecomment-1823737998 15:06:24 Title: some copied files are corrupted (chunks replaced by zeros) · Issue #15526 · openzfs/zfs · GitHub 15:06:25 15526 – [NEW PORT] security/pgpgpg: a wrapper for GnuPG to emulate PGP 2.6 https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=15526 15:06:39 looks like a zfs corruption bug 15:14:03 looks like freebsd has vfs.zfs.bclone_enabled = 0 by default. it's not clear if that avoids it though. i set vfs.zfs.dmu_offset_next_sync = 0 (from default 1). 15:14:33 oh, this was posted yesterday too I think 15:25:53 I didn't upgrade my pool yet, so, apparently, I still have feature@block_cloning disabled. 15:42:24 I am in FreeBSD 14.0 in qemu, and my native resolution is 1280x1024. When starting xorg, it is 1920x1024 or something like this. I can set it with xrandr to 1280x768, but when i try 1280x1024 it says no such resolution. 15:42:31 any hint how I can fix that? 15:51:33 Probably a missing driver ? Do you have the correct driver installed and running ? Also is your xorg.conf setup correctly ? 15:54:00 didn't setup any xorg.conf, using qemu on linux 15:55:01 ahh you're running on FreeBSD which is running in qemu which is running on Linux ? 15:55:30 yes 15:55:42 and i searched, zero xorg.conf exist 15:55:50 but using openbox startx worked fine 15:55:54 just too high resolution 15:56:08 i think i used -vga std option for qemu 15:57:06 yeah that probably inherited from the system 15:57:17 had similar problem on older netbsd installation 15:57:23 but it worked fine on openbsd 15:57:27 all in qemu on linux 15:57:43 using xrandr --size 1280x1024 15:58:20 there was some trickery adding the resolution via 2-3 command line commands 15:58:42 Not sure. Its been over a decade since I've used X11 15:58:43 but last time that didn't not succeed, so i was asking again today if someone has a pointer 15:58:55 ok, wayland user, too bad:) 15:59:42 :-) have never used wayland in my life. 15:59:56 simple, straight forward command line 16:02:05 If I had to use a windowing system, would be X11 + (vtwm || stumpwm ) 16:02:10 oh, cool, tty/tmux heavy user myself 16:02:52 i switch between 12 consoles, two of which run X11 16:03:33 * Remilia does not have X at all as she only runs FreeBSD on servers and routers 16:03:40 home PC has to be Windows for work reasons 16:04:11 I said goodbye to Windows when 95 was still state of the art 16:04:28 thought liked the user interface (except the command line) 16:04:35 yeah same kind of reasoning for me as well Remilia, though for me its Mac at home and at work. 16:04:41 when 95 was state of the art we had no Intel-compatible systems at home 16:04:47 SPARCstations and SGI stuff only 16:04:59 the love for motif 16:05:10 correction 16:05:36 I had an Intel-compatible PC I made myself because my uncle told me I am not getting a real PC until I solder one 16:05:47 heh 16:05:50 but it would definitely not run 95, it was a Z80A 16:05:59 CP/M 2.2 power 16:06:11 greybeard 16:06:23 ha ha 16:06:36 do not have a beard but yes I was born in 1986 16:07:14 yuripv: are vnode counts supposed to just rise? 16:07:40 vfs.numvnodes was around 50k shortly after reboot, it is 258k now 16:07:55 wish I had stats from before the upgrade 16:09:20 Remilia: I think they should be increasing 16:09:35 endlessly? 16:13:22 not sure about endlessly 16:16:12 vnodes as I recall is just a struct, similar to an inode but at vfs layer. as long as files are being created it will grow. is there something that's writting to the file system ? 16:28:28 mns: not really 16:29:15 I thought vfs.numvnodes is the number of active vnodes in use 16:29:40 and consequently that if I stop most processes, the number should drop 16:31:26 not active processes, no 16:35:34 Remilia: not sure how accurate this is: https://wiki.freebsd.org/BasicVfsConcepts?highlight=%28%5CbCategoryStale%5Cb%29 16:35:35 Title: BasicVfsConcepts - FreeBSD Wiki 16:50:33 I don't have an UEFI system but trying to help a friend of mine who has FreeBSD with UEFI enabled system, for EFI system update after updating from 13.2 to 14.0. Wanted to ask his ada0p1 has efi partition, is it possible to mount that partition while the system is already running? 16:50:54 Like, to do mount_msdosfs /dev/ada0p1 /boot/efi and cp /boot/loader.efi /boot/efi/EFI/BOOT/Bootx64.efi and the rest.. 16:52:12 or if "/boot/efi" cannot be written, perhaps mkdir /tmp/efi and then mount_msdosfs /dev/ada0p1 /tmp/efi 16:54:40 Or perhaps, in order to update EFI system partitions, he should boot into single-user mode or directly by a usb stick and do the mounting there? 16:55:31 why would you not be able to mount the EFI partition? 16:56:05 on my ex-13.x system it is in fstab and I do not recall adding it there tbh 16:56:21 was a fresh install somewhere in June this year 16:56:46 '/dev/gpt/efiboot0 /boot/efi msdosfs rw 2 2' 16:56:46 still stuck on the fact that for 5+ years i never noticed that powerd wasn't throttling the cpus 16:58:26 Macer: it doesn't ? 16:59:27 mns: i had to disable powerd and install poewrdxx 16:59:51 which seems to work fine. but i never noticed the cpus were maxed out at 3GHz.. now they're staying around 1.6GHz.. that's huge 17:01:02 that is huge 17:01:07 what CPUs ? which system ? 17:01:17 I'm running powerd so curious 17:01:36 some ancient xeons.. i think those are 5560s 17:01:46 though it seems to be working in my case as far as I can tell 17:02:00 Macer: IIRC, powerd tells you on startup if it'll be able to do anything for your system 17:02:02 tercaL: Did you see "Upgrading from Previous Releases of FreeBSD" in the release notes?: https://www.freebsd.org/releases/14.0R/relnotes/ The instructions for updating the EFI loader worked fine for me. 17:02:03 Title: FreeBSD 14.0-RELEASE Release Notes | The FreeBSD Project 17:02:11 X5670 17:02:36 meena: i didn't see that.. all i saw was it starting up when the service was started 17:03:06 either way. powerdxx works just fine.. 1.6Ghz is the minimum the CPU can go and they're pretty much stuck there since i only use it as a nas 17:03:24 but yah for like 5 years they were pegged @ 3GHz lol 17:03:59 i only happened to enable the htop frequency stuff just because.. on a whim.. and noticed they were running around 3GHz and weren't coming off of it even though the cores were mostly idle 17:04:41 how do you enable the "frequency stuff" in htop ? 17:05:22 it's in setup 17:05:48 display options has an option to show the cpu frequency 17:06:02 AHH OK 17:06:12 oops caps lock 17:06:26 the fbsd manual has a command for it too 17:06:44 but i wouldn't have even bothered.. i just assumed powerd would handle it and enabled it and forgot about it 17:06:55 and just by chance happened to notice it wasn't throttling heh 17:08:25 i was also curious about swap. i guess the standard is to segregate a 2GB partition per disk for swap but how would you actually set that up? i guess most people mirror it? 17:08:29 oh nice, it has temperature there as well, though doesn't show me anything for temp. 17:08:39 yah i didn't even try with temp heh 17:09:09 but i was wondering what the freqs were looking like and when i turned it on everything was maxed out lol 17:09:31 i probably lost like $500 over that span of time because of it 17:10:38 you can create a stripe zpool over spare space on multiple drives and create a raw dataset for swap in that pool 17:11:09 that would likely be more effective than swapon'ing multiple separate partitions 17:11:56 or you could do a raidz 17:28:50 https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=275308 17:28:53 Title: 275308 – EN tracking issue for potential ZFS data corruption 17:29:52 hide your data too 17:42:22 * HIA hiding all data 17:42:41 * HIA hiding all their criminal data 17:43:17 Macer, Thank you for the mention of powerdxx as that will help me hugely on the laptop. I have listed power management on the laptop as a problem and I think you just solved it for me. 17:43:39 torpedo tubes 2 and 4 opening 17:44:25 rwp: that's good. like i said though it was just on a whim. so i guess we both got lucky lol 17:45:34 Macer: yeah so seems like powerd works for me as far as I can tell, in that my CPU is running on the lower end of its frequency range, especially when idle 17:46:03 I am not currently using FreeBSD on my laptop and power management and battery life is one of the reasons. This will fix one of them. 17:46:14 mns: yah i guess it's hit or miss with either or 17:46:24 in my case it wasn't working and i just expected it to and never checked because i suck 17:46:28 now to figure out why temperature doesn't show up in htop 17:46:33 torpedo tubes 2 and 4 closing 17:46:43 mns: let me know how that works out. i can't even get that work in debian :) 17:46:47 Macer: in all honesty, there are just too many things to keep track of 17:46:49 (work properly) 17:47:05 My desktop also has the same problem but it's less of a problem here. My desktop has been running at 3.3GHz with powerd running. Disabled powerd, installed enabled started powerdxx, now running at 1.6GHz. 17:47:08 lm-sensors sees it but htop doesn't 17:47:23 rwp: exactly the same as my isilon :) 17:47:44 and that's a dual xeon so running all the cores at 3GHz ... the money lost there .. it's just a nas. most of its workload is really light weight 17:47:56 I'll put a Kill-a-Watt meter on a box and measure the power difference between the two configurations. But fortunately for me here the desktop is a lower power machine at the base. 17:49:14 rwp: i've been running it like that for like 5 years 17:49:36 that may not be true though. i was running freenas for a while so maybe it was working for that.. that was at least 2 of the years before i decided to go vanilla freebsd 17:50:06 but i guess i'll never know. 17:50:45 mns is correct. There is too much to keep track of! Impossible to do it all. We all just do the best that we can. 17:54:35 well i mean with fbsd it's usually just set it up and forget about it until an update / upgrade 17:54:59 and even then the releases have such a long lifespan that you can probably forget about it for years if it's set up properly 17:55:42 Since mns says powerd is frequency scaling there it means that it is hardware dependent. And other than battery life on a laptop it's not immediately obvious elsewhere. 17:58:46 Also looking at the various powerd operating modes it might be that because my system is plugged in on AC mains that it was intentionally running higher performance. I will need to try some of the other modes and see if perhaps configuring it differently would work better here. 18:04:47 mns, powerd++ references the temperature sensor as dev.cpu.%d.coretemp.tjmax and on my system "sysctl dev.cpu" does not report any temperature sensors. Probably needs a module that is not loaded. 18:06:50 I had to "kldload coretemp" in order to get temperature sensors online. 18:21:39 rwp: In my /etc/rc.conf: powerd_flags="-a adaptive" is all I have. 18:21:54 let me try the coretemp 18:24:29 On my desktop upon which I am working now the battery power status is "unknown" so that probably affects something. I need to boot up the laptop and test there. 18:25:06 Running "powerd++ --verbose -f" and then interrupting it after it prints out the initial configuration is informative. 18:25:36 It tells me that hw.acpi.acline is not available. And that explains why I see "uknown" in the display of that field. 18:26:43 Otherwise letting it run and then stressing up the machine with a handful of "yes | sha256 &" jobs and watching the result is informative. Then killing those off (fg, Control-C, repeat) returns things to normal. 18:27:52 rwp: I loaded coretemp, but no temp sensors listed for 'sysctl dev.cpu', maybe its not just coretemp that's needed. Will need to go through htop manual 18:28:27 It's almost certainly hardware dependent. I have an Intel cpu system here and "coretemp" makes me think it requires an Intel. 18:31:05 ok so according to the htop(1) man page, need to have libsensor installed besides coretemp. I can't find the libsensor package in ports though 18:31:20 I have AMD CPU 18:31:59 amdtemp then? 18:33:56 wait, "core"temp as in Intel Core ? I was thinking "core" as in core of the kernel or something along those lines 18:33:57 I just have this vague memory that "coretemp" is an Intel specific module, but my memory is often vague so don't put much weight to it. 18:35:01 coretemp – device driver for Intel Core on-die digital thermal sensor 18:35:12 amdtemp – device driver for AMD processor on-die digital thermal sensor 18:35:23 (from man pages :) 18:35:56 bingo !! 18:36:02 it works! I've got temp 18:36:04 * rwp bows down before yuripv! 18:36:33 yuripv: thanks. I was interpreting "core" differently 18:36:57 * mns adds that to his list of reasons for not having liked Intel CPUs --- confusing names 18:37:50 now I got to make sure I load it in all the time 18:39:57 Thank you everyone! Today has been a good learning and system improvement day. At least three things are better here now. Time to take a break before I really break something! BBIAB. 18:41:06 now to figure out what AMD family the CPU falls under 18:41:38 should be in dmesg (or /var/run/dmesg.boot) 18:46:37 There is always the "lscpu" port too. 18:47:38 Try "sysctl hw.model". 18:48:01 yeah found it with dmesg, Family: 0x15 18:48:40 rwp: that's different from AMD Family apparently 19:02:49 hmm wonder what other AMD related modules there are 19:04:50 apropos amd 19:04:59 should nearly do it 19:05:57 (or apropos -s4 amd if you are looking for drivers only) 19:10:41 yeah that gives me enough yuripv 19:44:24 5 hours of uptime and at 317k vnodes, unsure how bad these stats are: https://paste.ee/p/uEB2g 19:44:25 Title: Paste.ee - View paste uEB2g 19:44:45 though vnlru did not wake up yet 19:45:22 at least not in a noticeable way 19:54:20 Remilia: how did you collect these stats ? I dont get anything for 'sysctl vfs.vnode' and for 'sysctl vfs' I don't get any vnode listing 19:55:57 mns: stats might live in a different name space. you might wanna check sysctl -a 19:56:19 mns: `sysctl -a |egrep "^vfs.vnode"` 19:57:09 sysctl does not accept 'prefixes' or wildcards 19:57:21 you must list every variable or use -a 19:57:43 yeah it does accept prefixes 19:58:11 I never got it to output anything matching a prefix before 19:58:18 did it change in the past 15 years? 19:58:28 oh you're right 19:58:53 I dunno, I've only been around for 13-6 years 19:59:07 wild! Zooey learns something new every day, to quote Granblue Fantasy 19:59:21 meena: last time I tried this it was 4.3-STABLE 19:59:42 maybe I did something wrong at the time 20:00:17 Remilia: you need to become more daring, or forgetful 20:00:23 mns: btw which version are you on? 20:00:23 here's what I get https://paste.ee/p/TquCb 20:00:24 Title: Paste.ee - View paste TquCb 20:00:39 Remilia: I'm on 13.2-RELEASE-p4 20:00:43 14 here 20:00:47 ahhhh ok 20:01:06 mns: do you get (legacy) if you `sysctl -d kern.maxvnodes`? 20:01:27 kern.maxvnodes: Target for maximum number of vnodes (legacy) 20:03:01 yes that's the output I get, just without the '(legacy)' part 20:14:01 mns: seems like this is a very fresh change then 20:17:12 seems like it 20:21:10 Remilia: reading https://www.freebsd.org/releases/4.3R/announce/ and it feels like a very different time 20:21:11 Title: FreeBSD 4.3 Announcement | The FreeBSD Project 20:24:32 It's time to fax my order for the 14.0 cd set 20:27:14 vkarlsen: i think alpha and i386 are both bad candidates to ask for 20:28:01 meena :) 20:30:43 vkarlsen: Brother and Panasonic fax machines can use SIP \o/ 20:30:55 NetBSD still got you covered tho 20:30:56 Remilia: Really? :D 20:31:16 the current models support PSTN, ISDN, SIP, and X.25 20:31:24 Remilia: That sounds like a fantastic way to send a letter 20:32:30 also I think there's a proprietary Brother extension that lets you send faxes in colour 20:40:19 How does SIP help with faxes ? 20:42:44 I just did an update to 14.0-RELEASE on a server with a zroot on a ZFS mirror and updated the first efi partion with the new loader.efi just fine, but I can't mount the second. mount_msdosfs throws me a "invalid argument". what could I be missing? 20:42:56 mns: in some very rare cases you might not have access to a landline, and SIP solves that issue 20:43:36 oh derp. it's already mirrored.... 20:43:36 Remilia: so that's how all those online fax places do it, they're using SIP 20:44:11 some use fax modem pools 20:44:39 there's currently a petition going on here in the country side of Ireland to please keep landlines 20:44:59 why? 20:45:06 because they are accessible 20:45:16 and always available 20:45:18 because they don't have internet connections ? 20:45:43 mns: no, because cellular networks are not as reliable or accessible 20:46:08 you got me before I could correct myself. 20:46:39 a landline phone needs no power supply and it is trivial to backup-power a PBX 20:47:56 mns: when there's storm here, our mobile Internet goes to shit 20:48:11 mns: as an illustration, when I lived on the outskirts of StPetersburg in a relatively small settlement (5k pop) a storm tore down the 6 MV power line and the repairs took 3 days, cell towers went offline after 40 hours, the landlines were working throughout 20:49:12 (ADSL over those landlines was up as well) 20:49:48 6 MW, I presume 20:49:54 flatdog: megavolt 20:50:08 last I checked volt was V 20:50:57 true, like on the good-old tram lines. Got it 20:51:14 trams usually run on 580 V 20:51:41 some, maybe 20:52:24 in most of eastern Europe it used to be 580 and I think a few Japanese networks are 580 too 20:52:49 no idea way though \o/ 20:53:52 is it still needed to add the partitions yo use as swap to /etc/fstab? it seems it mounts them auomatically? 21:05:55 weust: I have it in my /etc/fstab 21:07:15 I had the old NVME disk naming in there, but the the /dev/nda was was swap enabled automatically. 21:08:02 I don't know much about NVME 21:16:13 weust: the installer adds swap partitions to fstab 21:16:25 so I am not touching that 21:18:19 Remilia: For non-NVME drives that won't be a problem. But 14 changed the naming of those disks 21:18:46 '/dev/nda' sent me tbh 21:18:51 From the relnotes:"NVMe disks are now nda devices by default, for example nda0; see nda(4)." 21:18:54 non-disclosure agreements in your devices 21:18:59 haha yeah 21:20:29 We don't talk about those here 21:20:50 (and also not in #freebsd-social, in case you're wondering) 21:22:06 meena: you mean we don't disclose information about those 21:24:54 * V_PauAmma_V doesn't disclose his agreement or lack thereof. 22:26:46 so i changed gpt labels to zfs partitions after the fact.. and i want to use them vs using device names (da12p2 ... etc).. but the pool is in use and the gpt labels don't appear in /dev/gpt after a reboot 22:26:57 is there some sort of magic i need to perform here in order to use the gpt labels? 22:32:15 to which extend, current FreeBSD socket C programming is similar to BSD4.2? 22:34:11 very 22:37:41 even to the point of old examples working fine ? 22:37:49 -out of the box I mean- 22:38:13 simple ones, yes 22:40:55 I read a column about how BSD4.2 has recently introduced its network IPC mechanisms, namely sockets. Mentions that Xerox Network Systems and IBM SNA might be alternative domains to UNIX system domains and Internet (i think it refers to the socket type AF_UNIX and AF_INET) -the year is 1985- 22:41:50 yes, that's about when I was using 4.2 22:43:53 and yes, the socket paradigm has basically not changed in 40 years 22:44:21 I am testing the code that is included in the article, even the header files seem to be in place 22:44:29 the code is pre ANSI 22:44:53 they never quite did sort out any distinction between AF and PF, mind 22:45:18 what is AF and PF suppoused to be? 22:45:34 address family, protocol family 22:46:47 it seems like protocol and addressing were mean to be different things, the column talks about "The arrchitecture of 4.2 provides an extensible set of communication domains or standardized address formats. The two curerntly implemented domains are the UNIX system [AF_UNIX] and the internet [AF_INET" 22:48:35 "Sockets using the Xerox Network systems (XNS) protocol would likely be more efficient and easier to use than those using TCP, in fact, a socket type (SOCK_SEQPACKET) has already been allocated for the XND protocol" 22:49:27 It is my understanding that back then it was not clear that the ARPA protocols were mean to be the de facto standards one 22:50:23 there were multiple camps. Exciting times 22:56:09 I am finding the UNIX magazines of those times pretty interesting. Reading what was being published and discussed back then is different from the background noise that remained afterwards. Also I am surprised of the so many UNIX vendors that were back then. I am also surprised on the amount of commercial software that has been lost, there is no trace of all those productivity, office software, 22:56:15 databases, etc. 22:56:55 Macer, A detail that you might be missing is that a device might initially be exposed by various paths but as soon as any of those are used then the other alternative paths are immediately removed. 22:57:47 So if you attach to /dev/da0p2 for example then any associated GPT label disappears immediately. Enforcing a singleton use policy at the kernel level. 22:58:14 In order to use the gpt labels one needs to import the array using those labels. You can't boot off of them and then change. 22:58:52 So I think the only way is either one disk at a time as a "replacement" or booting the installer media and doing an "import -d /dev/gpt" on the array to force those names to be used. 23:01:19 rwp: yah it seems like fbsd 'hides' them 23:01:35 but zfs (newer zfs) allows you to rename devices on the fly .. so they pop up in /dev/gpt after reboot 23:01:57 uskerine, jgh, If you were ever using HP-UX then a tidbit lost in time is that I was told when I talked with the kernel guys there while I was debugging a tty problem that HP-UX was based off the BSD4.2 kernel not the 4.3 and that's why the tty driver was different there. So I guess I have used the BSD4.2 based kernel a lot by using HP-UX. 23:02:21 i tested it on a slop pool 23:02:33 and yah.. seems like the gpt devices are showing up after a zfs rename of the device 23:02:35 Macer, I am still using zfs-2.1.9 so I guess I will need to wait for 2.2.1 for that feature. 23:02:51 yah. guess it's a 2.2 feature lol 23:03:26 i just changed a couple more devices to the gpt labels in a pool and reboot just to make sure it doesn't come off the rails 23:05:11 Macer, Did you see that earlier mns and I learned about coretemp & amdtemp after you dropped off? I now have cpu temperature sensors enabled now! Cool beans! 23:06:04 rwp: no .. missed that heh 23:06:16 i was too busy with this zfs mess :) 23:06:20 i'm in the home sretch now though 23:06:49 renaming the devices in zfs and reboot makes them show up so i guess i can do the rest of them now 23:08:55 rwp from the last commercial UNIXes I only used Sun/Solaris as a user around mid 90s (it was still widely used as workstation for EDA software). Linux was spreading quickly all around the place though. 23:09:44 But I do remember seeing the HP-UX workstations, they were used for microwave/radio simulation 23:13:00 PA-RISC had a pretty good level of floating point "grunt" performance during that time. My perspective was cranking through electrical SPICE simulations. 23:14:08 But the tty driver was the funky 4.2 one. select(2) operates differently there on non-blocking file descriptors. I needed "expect" to work and ported it. 23:22:17 I loved the sparcs, not so much the PA-RISC, and also liked the POWER IBM ones, along with Alpha of course :-) 23:24:18 SPARC, Alpha, POWER and then PA-RISC would be my order of things 23:25:14 Honestly I will be the feelings was really for the OS on the software side of things. HP-UX out of the box was pretty bare. I spent a lot of time porting software to it. But SunOS/Solaris had nicer software with more features, and a lot more bugs. 23:26:48 SPARC was a nice idea initially, but fell behind chronically as time went on. IMHO the boss of Sun Microelectronics should have been fired about three times 23:33:01 What happened to all software written for System V/BSD4.2? Did each one of the HW vendors require recompiling or at least when underlying CPU was the same it was not needed? 23:33:28 I am curious about the commercial business software, apparently there were a vast amount of commercial productivity and database software 23:33:32 Cheyenne: what's the failure? floating is always a pain in the ass .... debug and optimized builds often give different results 23:34:33 rwp: SunOS and Ultrix usually had better open source software, as they were more accessible on campuses. Everything got ported to the other unix vendors after the fact. That was true most of the time 23:34:47 Yup! 23:36:05 uskerine: most of those got ported to Windows and Linux and then discontinued. At least non-Solaris and non-AIX OSes. 23:36:06 I once had a similar case, I was basically hitting some boundary condition, but not reproducible in debugging, because while data lives in the FPU it's stored with higher precision (80 bits IIRC), and when store occurs its rounded to 64 23:37:13 I wonder if single stepping causes that as well 23:40:38 mns one might think that the internet is an infinite repository of legacy software, but actually all that software seems to have been lost in the night of time. 23:42:03 uskerine: there's probably still some copy on a floppy in some basement/attic/storage room ... but fading fast! :D 23:42:14 dtomato I have had issues with floating point too, do you know that it is because of the FPU? I ended up removing the optimisation flags 23:44:14 uskerine: not everything needs to be kept around. Just the stuff I'm interested in, that's all :-) 23:45:01 uskerine: it depends on what the problem actually is, and some weird issues can crop up from language and compiler flags, but in this case it sounds like manually written assembly, which is why I enquired about the exact nature, because as you know, floating point, there be dragons :D 23:46:16 I do not recall the exact issue, but back then it was extremelly tricky to debug, we ended up thinking that it was an intermitent bug in gcc (we found something documented). But I was never sure about it. What I remember is that removing the optimisation made the issue disappear 23:46:53 I'm also not going to claim deep expertise, i've just had my hair singed by them :D 23:48:11 uskerine: if I remember correctly -fast-math is often cheeky because it allows the compiler to be quite loose with order of floating operations (which matter) and code optimizations/foldings 23:48:51 mns sure thing, but I have recently being reading these old UNIX magazines and it is remarkable how much business software was available for System V and BSD back then. The use case of a few employees sharing the same server for accounting, databases, etc was apparently pretty widespread (of maybe that is what the ads tried to convey) 23:49:10 but none of that remains available anywhere, not even a single screenshot 23:50:58 dtomato that is good to know, you always assume things are going to behave normally 23:52:00 uskerine: the one we were relying on was `-ffloat-store`, which forces that reading out of FPU causing loss of precision, we needed it because client insisted new code give exactly bit for bit same values as old code (and we are talking generations difference) ... that seemd to mostly work, but even adding printf()s or basically the way you break 23:52:01 down your computations in code might influence the actual results :-/ 23:53:30 so it wasn't realiable, you just have to accept that floating-point just breaks your maths and accept that it's chaos :D 23:54:30 uskerine: yeah I remember those magazines and what they showed. There was a use case for what you're referring to. A lot of the software just is no longer around, sitting in the vaults of the corporations. Like Lotus 1-2-3 which had a Unix version, but is now most likely in some vault at IBM. For the most part though, the Unix desktop were acting as front ends for mainframe based software back then. 23:54:36 You have examples of what you're finding in those Unix magazines and which magazines ? 23:54:56 Probably Byte for a lot of it. 23:56:00 There were many word processors and spreadsheets. Many databases too. Those seems like the most common ones. Then several compilers too. It seems that depending on the year the focus was on one thing. That is interesting to see as you can see now the whole sequence. 23:56:17 UNIX Review and Unix World more I'm guessing. 23:56:34 Yes I have been reading UNIX Review 23:56:41 I think it was better than UNIX World 23:56:53 yeah I still have some of my copies around too 23:57:23 they are now in archive.org. There are extremely good articles, for example one number covers the early history of UNIX, both inside AT&T and commercially 23:58:36 I had one where they had an article about how to test your new Unix system, by using things like grep on the dictionary, and things like that lol 23:59:43 there is also another article about networking that was remarkable insightful (back at that time), it is written by the owner of 3com