00:04:32 meena it needing root and writing to /usr/obj won't do anything to the system that's currently running, the host system, right? 00:05:46 and which dir has release/? 00:24:47 meena, That deployment article is pretty interesting. :-) 00:27:50 polyex, Another article you might find inspirational is https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/howto-freebsd-zfs-madness.31662/ see the posting "6.3. Import Boot Environment from Other Machine". 00:27:52 Title: HOWTO: FreeBSD ZFS Madness | The FreeBSD Forums 00:45:53 pkg-provides came through in a pinch. self-built liquidsoap needed a particular lib. found one as part of another package. bam 00:49:19 i need to learn how to just get a hold of that single file and put it where freebsd expects it to be... still.. it's a start 03:56:35 meena k i made the freebsd repo. make -j8 buildworld buildkernel KERNELCONF=GENERIC and i looked in release/scripts like you said but it doesn't have mkisoimages.sh like the downloadable .iso has. what i'm doing wrong pls? 03:56:57 oh wow it's in release/amd64!! 05:04:28 wait i cloned the repo, built it, but there's no /usr dir. only /usr.bin and /usr.sbin. where am i going to put my distribution.txz for scripted bsdinstall from this data then? 05:21:48 can't run release/amd64/mkisoimages.sh because it complains boot/loader.efi no such file or dir 05:57:35 Is anyone familiar with www/rubygems-rails? Hoping someone can point me to where the $PATH environment is configured for gems, e.g. where PATH=/usr/local/lib/ruby/gems/3.1/bin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin set? 06:59:37 After some analysis it looks like my question has now transformed: What is the recommended way to set $PATH for a service/all services (e.g. nginx)? Specifically to add /usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin 07:22:13 /quit 07:45:42 batrachian: you can set it in login.conf, but they don't all run under the same User/Group/Class, so i don't really know 07:57:11 i am mostly used to using ubuntu for development. is there a good blog post/other resource on migrating from ubuntu to freebsd? 08:03:50 meena, I don't think login.conf applies, most/all services are configured to run as users configured as "nologin". e.g. nginx runs as user 'www' by default. 08:06:24 razetime: I recommend reading the FreeBSD Handbook. Don't try do connect Ubuntu with FreeBSD. It'll be much easier that way 08:07:26 razetime: the handbook isn't that big btw. it sounds more daunting than it is :] 08:13:42 i'll go through it and come back with questions 08:39:00 batrachian: https://man-dev.freebsd.org/rc.subr.8 see ${name}_limits and ${name}_login_class 08:39:02 Title: rc.subr(8) - FreeBSD Manual Pages (Dev) 08:40:45 batrachian: and if reading that doesn't convince you, you can also read /etc/rc.subr itself, and cry yourself to sleep 08:41:14 that's what I do anyway, every time i have to read that code 08:56:35 batrachian: nologin is just set as program login executes by default when you login as that user, I would hope that login.conf applies to services as it is the way to configure stuff for users (not sure if I ever want to look into rc.subr) 09:13:15 meena, nimaje ok, mea culpa. I can see on this system one daemon account using login.conf class 'daemon'. So hopefully the ~/.login.conf will also work for 'nologin' accounts using the home directory set in master.passwd? 09:16:39 well, that is often /nonexistent as services shouldn't write to their "home" 09:18:55 Hmm, not going to work by the look of it. Just saw the comments in /etc/login.conf above the daemon class entry, basically says path will be clobbered by rc, service and cron. 09:21:00 i'm trying to go the most direct path from cloning freebsd-src to a scripted bsdinstall iso. so i make buildworld/kernel, but there's no etc/usr/ dir to copy my distributable.txz into usr/freebsd-dist/. and release/amd64/mkisoimages.sh errors boot/loader.efi no such file or dir. what's wrong? 09:21:44 So far then the only option is to export PATH in the /usr/local/etc/rc.d/ script. 09:22:46 hm, rc and service hopefully get the default from login.conf and then only add their additional stuff, afaik in cron you can only set it, but hopefully it gets the default from login.conf as well, so that not setting it in crontab would work (well, but that's just what I hope, no idea how it is implemented) 09:26:22 man 8 service has it explicitly in ENVIRONMENT that HOME and PATH are set to what they are at boot time as per /etc/rc, which for PATH is without /usr/local/ 09:29:11 yeah, the rc.d script itself, but for the command run hopefully the settings in login.conf apply 09:30:33 Ok, could be, I'll give it a whirl! 09:41:30 batrachian: i think you'll have to modify /etc/login.conf for this stuff 09:56:47 I have a very early boot rc.d script that updates rc.conf settings 09:57:40 is there any way to tell rc to reload its state (settings/vars) mid-run? 09:58:00 currently we're using an rc.local hack 10:00:43 yes! 10:00:47 I documented it! 10:01:14 oohhhh 10:01:56 where? where the heck is it 10:02:26 * dch re-reading rc(8) again very carefully 10:03:55 dch: https://freshbsd.org/freebsd/src/commit/0981275c75d5678172eb9dd8fbc89ef61c05c979 10:03:56 Title: FreeBSD / src / 0981275 / rc(8): document how to reload rc's configuration - FreshBSD 10:04:45 SIGALRM 10:05:39 kill -SIGALRM $RC_PID 10:06:13 see also, https://github.com/canonical/cloud-init/blob/abbcfc00f3ee6c65b43fbb73198f2cf9f52054a1/cloudinit/distros/freebsd.py#L40-L52 10:06:14 Title: cloud-init/cloudinit/distros/freebsd.py at abbcfc00f3ee6c65b43fbb73198f2cf9f52054a1 · canonical/cloud-init · GitHub 10:07:18 thanks! 10:07:21 used here: https://github.com/canonical/cloud-init/blob/abbcfc00f3ee6c65b43fbb73198f2cf9f52054a1/cloudinit/config/cc_rsyslog.py#L374 10:07:23 Title: cloud-init/cloudinit/config/cc_rsyslog.py at abbcfc00f3ee6c65b43fbb73198f2cf9f52054a1 · canonical/cloud-init · GitHub 10:07:24 that is indeed a useful feature 10:08:40 glad I asked about it instead of just going lol watever 10:11:03 this says MFC after 1 week, but i doesn't look like it's been MFC'd 10:11:28 https://freshbsd.org/freebsd/src/commit/0981275c75d5678172eb9dd8fbc89ef61c05c979 maybe someone who still has a commit bit could push that down to stable branches 10:11:29 Title: FreeBSD / src / 0981275 / rc(8): document how to reload rc's configuration - FreshBSD 10:11:40 Cuz that "feature" has been around for a long ass time. 10:13:26 debdrup: are you able to MFC that ^^^ ? 10:19:22 dch: sorry, I really don't have the bandwidth right now :( 10:19:36 debdrup: thats ofc fine! 10:21:49 Also, we're in the middle of a major release, so I'm not sure now would be the best time. I can't remember the exact points for the un-freezes, but I wouldn't wanna step on any toes. 10:28:36 given the time of commit, it should already be in 14, just needs to go down to 13 and 12 10:32:02 fair enough 10:32:09 meena: btw this works. very handy indeed. 10:32:36 dch: of course it does. 10:43:49 dch: how MFC my commits! 11:10:04 * jbo throws 3/4 of a cookie at meena and runs away 11:10:17 what about tea 11:10:25 actually, never mind, don't throw tea at me 11:10:36 too late! 11:10:42 * jbo throws a bag of tea leafs at meena 11:10:45 I hope it was iced tea 11:10:56 * dch throws carrots at everybody 11:11:23 great, now all we need is some cooking skills 12:19:15 Lots of EC2 related commits in the releng/14.0 branch. Is FreeBSD making into an AWS EC2 AMI? 12:23:56 freebsd has had amis for years 12:23:59 raym: it's been there forever. but we're getting better support 12:24:45 I see 13:28:35 Hey, I'm pretty new to jails and I'm trying to install bind to a jail. I'm using nullfs so I'm not sure what the issue actually is? 13:29:21 This is my jail.conf: https://bsd.to/bJAz/raw 13:29:22 Title: bJAz 13:39:27 samip537[l]: what's the problem? 15:00:41 Hi. I am happily using the i915kms drivers for my intel/nvidia setup. Now trying to install a software that requires the nvidia-drivers package installed and the module loaded. Will this two interfere with each other? Is it a bad idea? 15:10:40 how can I tell which driver is providing the virtual terminals? none of syscons, sc, or vt show up in dmesg 15:13:47 sysctl kern.vty 15:14:44 thanks 15:15:51 for some reason I got it in my head that that wasn't definitive, but re-reading the man pages it seems that wasn't too accurate 15:19:00 search for VT in /var/run/dmesg.boot, too 15:22:41 "VT(efifb): resolution 640x480" ... "VT: Replacing driver "efifb" with new "fb"." 15:25:28 VT doesn't mean the vt driver though, right? it just means virtual terminals in general? 15:25:37 no, it means the vt driver in this case 15:25:55 the old syscons driver doesn't do those messages 15:35:45 is there a way to change the video mode of VTs when using the vt driver? vidcontrol doesn't seem to want to work (as suggested in vidcontrol(1) that it might not) but the video mode does change on startup to show 266x75 text so it seems there is some mechanism somewhere to do it 15:36:18 I'm not sure if it matters, but this is while using i915kms.ko and X11 on another terminal 15:36:58 once the drm driver is loaded, the video mode is controlled by that; if you want to change the text size, you do it mainly by changing the vt font size rather than the resolution 15:37:46 is there a man page or something for i915kms.ko? I didn't find anything 15:39:11 I'm running xfce (on a Pi4 if that matters). How can I allow the user to halt or reboot instead of simply looking out? I'm using startx as I cannot seem to run xdm or any other without the screen going blank. 15:39:31 xdm ought to work if X works at all? 15:40:09 the screen going blank effect also works in VirtualBox, grr... # but I don't need that fixed, I need the Pi users to be able to reboot 15:40:21 RhodiumToad: you would think 15:40:22 members of the operator group can run the shutdown command 15:40:31 oh? lemme try that 15:43:22 (they can also do stuff like read (but not write) raw disks) 15:44:38 the reason why I'm trying to change the mode is because I attached an external monitor to my laptop and now when I switch to a text VT (non X11) the framebuffer doesn't reach the bottom or right side of the screen 15:45:29 presumably because the external monitor has a higher resolution than the internal one 15:45:50 how is X handling it? 15:48:45 for X I just used xrandr to tell it to fix things up. currently I'm just doing xrandr --output eDP-1 --off to disable the internal monitor in X, then restart my window manager to get it to re-read the new dimensions that it should place UI elements, then call the windows back to the visible area, because they would be off the screen by then 15:49:20 I think I could also set the external monitor to --primary and then the later WM steps too, but that's not what I'm doing right now 15:50:42 otherwise X is working fine, at least no worse than without the external monitor 15:52:26 there was one hiccup yesterday when the first VT stopped displaying new characters, but a restart fixed that. I was running that VT as text mode at the time, with X11 started from a different VT 15:53:24 I tried to reset(1) from a different VT but for some reason that gave an error. I forgot which error 15:54:46 I haven't really played with video modes in text 15:54:59 there's probably a better way that involves X starting up with the correct resolution for the external monitor, but I haven't figured that out yet 15:55:37 I think the VT text modes are really only technically video because the drm driver is involved, but maybe I'm wrong 15:56:00 maybe they really are true text modes 15:56:24 the vt driver doesn't use text mode unless you force it do, and you haven't 15:56:58 its intended mode of operation is in a graphics mode, i.e. backed by some kind of framebuffer (whether vga, efi, or drm) 15:57:03 but it would be nice if I could set X11 and the text VTs to use the same resolution so that VT switches are snappier 15:58:37 yeah it did appear to be a graphical mode to me, just by the looks of things 15:58:53 but "text mode" emulated on to of that 15:58:57 *top 15:59:34 emulated in the sense that the vt driver renders characters on the screen using a character-cell font, yes 16:00:01 yes precisely 16:01:45 so basically I have two goals: 1) be able to use all the real estate available on my external monitor when in text VT modes, and 2) use the same resolution for X11 and VT text modes for faster VT switching. (2) is really just a nice-to-have though 16:07:03 so, if I'm in the operator group, why don't I have permission to run /sbin/reboot ? I'm also in wheel 16:08:43 operators have to use shutdown -r 16:08:59 /sbin/reboot can use dangerous options 16:09:07 (and hence is reserved to root) 16:09:46 being in wheel just allows you to su to root if you know the root pw (or have configured sudo to allow it) 16:13:35 OK, that works, thanks 16:20:41 good enough, thanks... they can run startx, and either in an exterm or after they log out they can run my aliased fore reboot and halt, problem solved... I can deploy the Pi Monday :-) 16:30:32 man, sorry for the typos, I'm leaning over and juggling two keyboards :-/ 16:31:31 we all speak Typo fluently 16:33:07 Anyone happen to have an newer (like 10 years?) nvidia card on a system where X isn't loaded? Does loading nvidia-modeset load move nvidia klds? 16:38:57 nvidia-modeset.ko loads nvidia.ko but that's all, as far as I know - but that's not the newest card or driver 16:40:15 nvidia-driver-470 only has those two .kos 16:40:44 my card is a GT 710 16:41:56 Ok... someone is claiming their card is running at high temps until X is loaded. 16:42:21 I'd assume just have the kld loaded would hand any GPU temp management. 16:44:11 Hard to know. the nvidia-driver package also includes user-mode code for X 16:44:38 xorg/modules/drivers/nvidia_drv.so and the nvidia versions of the GL libs 16:44:49 I see nvidia-settings has fan control so maybe... Never seen this in Linux and sounds like a bug in the FreeBSD driver. 16:47:06 However, it seems the FreeBSD driver forum on nvidia devel is more or less user posts... user solves. 16:47:38 Bit of a different exp. with the Linux side of the forum. 17:00:46 Hello. How do I use lurch? 17:00:52 i did pkg install lurch 17:02:27 it seems to be a plugin for libpurple? 17:03:04 RhodiumToad: that should give me an ability to use OMEMO 18:08:51 V-T60: does pkg query %Fp lurch indicate any installed documentation? 18:18:37 Are there ever situations anymore where `freebsd-update install` needs to be run in single user mode? 18:21:46 Wait, is "freebsd-update install" supposed to be run in single user mode? (All these times, since 12.x, have not been doing that) 18:24:47 No mention of "single user" in https://man.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?query=freebsd-update&apropos=0&sektion=0&manpath=FreeBSD+13.2-RELEASE+and+Ports&arch=default&format=html 18:24:49 Title: freebsd-update 18:47:22 hmm 18:53:21 mount --libxo=json and =xml appear to have issues with non-unicode mountpoints 19:09:16 Freaky: that makes sense, at least for JSON: "A string is a sequence of zero or more Unicode characters, wrapped in double quotes, using backslash escapes." — https://www.json.org/json-en.html 19:09:17 Title: JSON 19:10:33 which makes it rather unsuitable for encoding paths 19:10:57 ❯ mount --libxo=json |jq 19:10:59 jq: parse error: Invalid string: control characters from U+0000 through U+001F must be escaped at line 1, column 11694 19:11:09 XML mode mangles it instead 19:11:35 and XML should just be using 19:12:38 XML replaces my dodgy bytes with a question mark 19:12:52 So, basically, libxo has to, effectively convert non-Unicode to Unicode, and for XML it needs to specify the correct encoding 19:13:31 does just happen with mount, or do you have other ways of reproducing it? 19:13:44 what's your locale? 19:15:30 ❯ procstat --libxo=json pwdx $$ |jq 19:15:31 jq: parse error: Invalid string: control characters from U+0000 through U+001F must be escaped at line 1, column 105 19:16:02 en_GB.UTF-8, not that I can imagine it possibly matters 19:16:19 "/tmp/bork/foo\nbar\tbaz\xc3\x28boop" is my mountpoint 19:16:45 I'd quite like to be able to reliably extract that from.. something 19:17:08 Linux mountinfo encodes it 19:17:34 what encoding is "/tmp/bork/foo\nbar\tbaz\xc3\x28boop" ? 19:17:55 it's unix filename encoding 19:18:21 a bag of bytes that don't contain NULL 19:18:41 what does it expand to? 19:19:04 Also, it looks fairly Unicode to me 19:19:47 it's very not 19:19:54 "/tmp/bork/foo\nbar\tbaz\xc3\x28boop".scrub # => "/tmp/bork/foo\nbar\tbaz�(boop" 19:20:04 that's literally what I'm testing 19:20:36 I could have just grabbed some /dev/random output and had a reasonable chance of it being a valid path 20:38:52 is anyone still using an actual phys terminal? I am sort of looking into getting one just for the fun of it 20:39:55 am mostly leaning towards the DEC vt520 color - because it makes it possible to do away with the crt and attach a normal flatscreen vga monitor 20:42:13 phys terminals <3 20:43:08 sure - but you can say that about a lot of old systems ;-) 20:44:15 the server I currently have has an ilo - ssh capable so no real need for it 20:53:23 i used to have a wyse terminal, 20:53:37 it sure beat hyperterm for what i was doing with it 20:53:51 they where also good - and a cheaper alternative to a real DEC 20:53:57 probably still are 20:57:43 they must have made millions of them, to every bank, supermarket, library etc etc - but a refurbed one sure costs premium today 20:58:19 not to mention a keyboard to match 21:43:46 any Makefile ninjas are awake? :P 21:46:21 * RhodiumToad is a makefile expert 21:46:54 cdrmack: what is your question? 21:47:16 sometimes I'm scared that we don't actually need build systems, it's just the matrix keeping us busy 21:47:21 first of all it's not ports related, just regular makefile question 21:47:59 I use depend target to call mkdep to generate .depend file with my *.c <-> *.h relations 21:48:26 however when I modify *.h file make doesn't recompile related files even though these are visible inside .depend 21:48:37 so I wonder what I'm doing wrong 21:48:38 are you using bmake or some other make? 21:48:52 just a regular make, the one which is on FreeBSD out of the box 21:48:55 do you include that .depend file? 21:49:14 make is supposed to read it automatically according to the manpage 21:49:22 nimaje, according to the man pages makefile looks for this file automatically, default name is .depend 21:49:26 yup 21:49:50 ah, ok 21:49:56 what does the output of make -dp look like 21:50:31 should I submit it somewhere? 21:52:57 any paste site, e.g. dpaste.org 21:53:11 or bsd.to if that's up 21:59:54 or you can do make -dp 2>&1 | nc termbin.com 9999 22:00:23 either way you have to tell us the resulting url 22:02:56 need to run bash, 2>&1 doesn't work on tcsh it seems 22:03:54 csh / tcsh is horribly lame when it comes to redirections 22:04:08 nah, on bash it stores only the last line too 22:04:18 huh? 22:04:34 one sec 22:04:40 anyway, make -dp |& nc termbin.com 9999 might work in csh 22:04:41 apologies, doing my best but I'm newbie 22:06:05 https://termbin.com/yfgz 22:07:26 Makefile: https://bsd.to/wV0h 22:07:28 Title: dpaste/wV0h (Plain Text) 22:07:52 Folder structure is really simple (I'm learning). main.c, foo.c and foo.h 22:08:07 ok, so it definitely reads the .depend 22:08:26 now try make -dm 22:08:49 touch the .h file first, ideally 22:09:45 https://termbin.com/wlxq 22:09:52 it's -dm after touch .h 22:11:12 what's the Makefile? 22:11:31 I sent the link above, on bsd.to 22:11:35 https://bsd.to/wV0h 22:11:37 Title: dpaste/wV0h (Plain Text) 22:14:14 using find to populate $(SRCS) is kind of bad practice, but I don't think it should cause this 22:15:04 I have tried to find a better way but failed. I will need sth like that when I will introduce some subdirectories for src files. 22:18:37 what's strange is 22:18:50 that even when I add foo.c : foo.h 22:18:59 it won't detect the change and recompile 22:19:02 :| 22:19:17 got it 22:19:29 the problem is that your SRCS contains ./foo.c and not foo.c 22:20:14 och, so that shell cmd was problematic after all 22:20:39 when you have subdirs it's usual to have a file in each subdir which is a makefile fragment which contains info about the files in that subdir 22:20:53 any recommendations how to scan for all src files? I searched for few hours today and that was the best - not GNU Make - way 22:21:12 how do I add all *.c files in the current dir though? 22:21:14 by hand? 22:22:25 if you insist on using find, do it something like this: 22:22:27 RAWSRCS!= find ${SRCDIR} -maxdepth 1 -name '*.c' 22:22:32 SRCS= ${RAWSRCS:S:^./::} 22:23:13 but it is conventional to list all the source files explicitly in the makefile, not search for them 22:24:49 gotcha, thanks a lot for you time 22:24:51 and help 22:25:03 since I'm learning I want to follow the best practices, thanks for sharing 22:25:37 to sum up - one Makefile per directory and add files manually, right? 22:25:40 just don't copy ideas from the src tree or the ports makefiles, those are all horrible 22:26:01 :D 22:26:02 avoid recursive make if you can. 22:26:33 do you know where I can read more about what you suggested? having parts of makefile in subdirs? 22:28:48 note that you can .include other files in the makefile, and you can even do that in a loop over your subdirs 22:29:14 one more question and I'm done for today, what's your opinion about mkdep? i've read in few places that ppl prefer calling cc with -MMD to generate these dependencies and then .include inside Makefile 22:29:22 there was a "recursive make considered harmful" article kicking around a long time ago, it might still exist, but iirc it may be specific to GNU make 22:29:31 I see 22:30:36 I've generally preferred the compiler option, but it may be more work 22:31:05 okay 22:31:07 thanks once again 22:31:22 have a good day/night!