00:14:20 <DrKK`> potentially dumb question incoming:
00:14:31 <DrKK`> what is the difference, between /usr/ports/sysutils/sysrc
00:14:35 <DrKK`> and sysrc(8) built in?
00:14:42 <RhodiumToad> qmr: what model, out of interest? and what vendor/device id?
00:14:55 <RhodiumToad> DrKK: the port is obsolete
00:15:16 <RhodiumToad> i.e. the port was created before the command was added to base
00:15:48 <DrKK`> oh I see
00:16:00 <DrKK`> sysrc has been in base since like George Bush Sr was President, no?
00:16:09 <DrKK`> I must be misremembering
00:16:36 <DrKK`> certainly since 2015 when I started using FreeBSD in earnest?
00:16:41 <DrKK`> I am surprised there was a port.
00:16:50 <RhodiumToad> sysrc was imported to base from ports in 2012
00:17:10 <RhodiumToad> see commit 2a357efa9c
00:17:25 <DrKK`> yeah.
00:17:26 <DrKK`> thanks.
00:19:47 <qmr> RhodiumToad:  the usb3 reader?
00:20:06 <RhodiumToad> ya
00:20:14 * RhodiumToad curious what to avoid
00:20:37 <qmr> umass0: <Norelsys NS1081, class 0/0, rev 2.10/1.00, addr 2> on usbus1
00:20:47 <qmr> bugzilla said it worked then stopped working w some patches
00:21:06 <qmr> and person was able to get it working again playing w configs or source or something I don't want to dick around with it much now though
00:21:38 <RhodiumToad> what's the output of  usbconfig -d ... dump_device_desc
04:06:28 <qmr> RhodiumToad: https://bsd.to/cuui/raw
04:06:29 <VimDiesel> Title: cuui
04:08:08 <RhodiumToad> no, with the -d ... option specifying the reader device
04:08:45 <RhodiumToad> usbconfig by itself will list the connected devices
04:12:09 <qmr> like /dev/da something?  It doesn't have that
04:13:15 <RhodiumToad> ugenX.Y
04:13:52 <RhodiumToad> for example, if I do  usbconfig  one of the output lines i have is:
04:13:57 <RhodiumToad> ugen0.3: <Generic USB3.0 Card Reader> at usbus0, cfg=0 md=HOST spd=SUPER (5.0Gbps) pwr=ON (224mA)
04:14:20 <qmr> oh derp it's not plugged in now
04:14:22 <RhodiumToad> and then I can do   https://dpaste.org/uzNwz
04:14:23 <VimDiesel> Title: dpaste/uzNwz (Plain Code)
04:15:55 <qmr> https://dpaste.org/4i79r
04:15:56 <VimDiesel> Title: dpaste/4i79r (Python)
04:16:21 <qmr> hmm waiting like 10 minutes for directory listing of 1000 files over samba
04:16:26 <qmr> computers are dumb
04:16:55 <qmr> 1073 items
04:18:14 <RhodiumToad> local network or remote?
04:18:24 <qmr> local
04:18:29 <qmr> yea samba is shitting itself in the log files
04:18:33 <qmr> I should have been a farmer
04:53:31 <qmr> hmm seems vfs objects = zfsacl is required?  and it seems it is per share not global?  after putting that in the share it seems to be back to normal maybe
09:12:45 <Serpent7776> Let's say I have Postgres running on ZFS. When I want to do zfs snapshot, can I do that while Postgres is running and handling requests?
09:21:03 <RhodiumToad> yes
09:21:49 <RhodiumToad> as long as the whole postgres data dir, including pg_wal, is in a single atomic snapshot
09:33:30 <Serpent7776> ok, thanks
09:35:47 <RhodiumToad> (there are ways to do it even if you have wal or tablespaces on separate datasets, etc., but it's more complex)
09:51:46 <Serpent7776> Does atomic means some extra requirements compared to normal snapshots here? I really don't know much about zfs.
10:04:49 <RhodiumToad> no, zfs snapshots are atomic
10:06:20 <Serpent7776> awesome, thanks
10:53:00 <Beladona> https://pastebin.mozilla.org/Jr0g3tBt
10:53:01 <VimDiesel> Title: Mozilla Community Pastebin/Jr0g3tBt (Plain Code)
12:32:56 <Demosthenex> V_PauAmma_V: good idea
12:33:51 <angry_vincent> i have my own zfs layout ( quite different from default one ) and have question whether it is compatible with BE. i want to setup completely isolated BE for stable/14 for testing. naos/os/main is my /, it has bootfs flag set - https://termbin.com/93qn
12:37:16 <meena> angry_vincent: what's os/main? that correspond to zroot/ROOT ?
12:39:32 <angry_vincent> yes, it is the same as zroot/ROOT/default
13:27:46 <veg> very interested in your research, angry_vincent, as I don't like using "zroot" either, though in my case I just renamed the zpool to "system"
13:32:39 <angry_vincent> my idea is to create completely isolated be with all my packages with all configs, etc. but for stable/14
13:42:17 <moviuro> hello, I have a stray /tmp/pg_upgrade directory that doesn't go away upon reboot and that root can't remove: https://x0.at/e2RE.txt
13:50:05 <moviuro> chflags -R noschg pg_upgrade; rm -fr pg_upgrade
14:00:20 <CmdLnKid> ls -lod ... directory will show you the current flags
14:36:09 <siix_office> is the strongswan package required (or even recommended) to set up an ipsec tunnel? (ikev2 eap)
14:36:35 <siix_office> it looks like since 11.1 we've had all the ipsec stuff built into the generic kernel
14:50:55 <jkc> siix_office: The handbook doesn't say anything about strongswan.
14:51:02 <jkc> https://docs.freebsd.org/en/books/handbook/security/#ipsec
14:51:03 <VimDiesel> Title: Chapter 16. Security | FreeBSD Documentation Portal
14:54:35 <jkc> Now, whether or not that supports IKEv2/EAP is another question.
14:56:03 <jkc> I don't believe that it does.
14:56:15 <siix_office> doesn't look like it to me either
14:56:18 <siix_office> thanks jkc
14:56:50 <jkc> of course.
15:50:29 <gman999> is alfred perlstein still around?
15:50:47 <gman999> i know i could look up his commits...
16:28:38 <V_PauAmma_V> https://docs.freebsd.org/en/articles/contributors/ (if current) implies "still considered active".
16:28:39 <VimDiesel> Title: Contributors to FreeBSD | FreeBSD Documentation Portal
19:44:11 <_xor> https://www.freshports.org/editors/orbiton/
19:44:12 <VimDiesel> Title: FreshPorts -- editors/orbiton: Small, fast and limited text editor in Go
19:45:49 <_xor> The description on that port made the chuckle lol. Just straight out listing its anti-features, which is refreshing heh. "Never asks before saving and quitting", "Home and End are not detected", "Must be given a filename at start", "Copy, cut and paste is only available for one line at a time", "Some letters cannot be typed in, like the 'ash'
19:45:49 <_xor> grapheme"
19:54:06 <njdoyle> Today I was looking at the test(1) man page. I was trying to figure out if it's better/more idiomatic/more portable to use -h versus -L. The POSIX documentation just repeats the same discription for both options. The GNU man pages note that the two options are the same. But the various BSD man pages have a bit extra... FreeBSD says this about the -h option: "Do not rely on its existence; use -L
19:54:08 <njdoyle> instead." but OpenBSD and NetBSD say this about the -L option: "Do not rely on its existence; use -h instead.". I'm curious if anyone knows the story here behind this conflict? Or if anyone has insight one should really use (I suspect it doesn't really actually matter).
20:12:55 <kenrap> _xor: part of the "worse is better" mantra :P
20:48:58 <bobemoe> Hi all. I really want to try bsd. I have an instant show stopper.... I use pulsar-edit as my IDE, which is electron based and I cant see support arriving any time soon. https://github.com/electron/electron/issues/3797 so i'm wondering what editors people use? i'm looking for something fairly light but good plugin support. i code mainly c++, php, bash, html, css, js, php and the features i most use are git integration, multi-cursors, syntax highlighting,
20:48:59 <bobemoe> linting, function indexing and autocomplete, building and jump to errors. i liked sublime-edit but its not foss. vscode is popular but i dont like M$ and its electron based.. i see a port but being electron based i dont know how well it works. i used genie a long time ago was ok i guess. so what do the bsd folks tend to use?
20:49:02 <VimDiesel> Title: Add FreeBSD support to electron · Issue #3797 · electron/electron · GitHub
20:49:02 <VimDiesel> 3797 – New port: starlanes-1.2.2 https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=3797
20:50:07 <TommyC> bobemoe: Have you heard about our lord and savior, emacs? The unholy ones use vim.
20:51:14 <bobemoe> i have heard and tried but never really managed to get into it
20:51:31 <bobemoe> maybe i should re-visit and persist
21:31:45 <TommyC> bobemoe: Regardless of whether you choose vim or emacs, I do highly recommend using both with plugins. By themselves, they're kinda meh.
21:35:19 <RhodiumToad> hm? emacs on its own is pretty good, though if you want git integration, magit is extremely good
21:35:43 <signalblue> when standing up a new mail server with Postfix and Dovecot, is the recommended approach with LDAP or should I just stick to Unix users/aliases as on system?
21:36:01 <signalblue> as in which method is cleaner/more reliable/time-tested/etc
21:38:22 <debdrup> I'm not sure there's a meaningful difference in how much either has been tested; LDAP will ensure future interoperability should you want to expand things, but that can also be accomplished after the fact using user/group and aliases via PAM, I think.
21:41:33 <debdrup> V_PauAmma_V: the contributors article isn't current by any means; alfred@ hasn't been active since 2007
21:45:28 <bobemoe> TommyC, checking out emacs first, not sure i can ctrl that much! http://xahlee.info/emacs/emacs/emacs_kb_shortcuts_pain.html but there seem to be solutions on that site too, i suffer a bit of rsi anyway so some new techniques while i learn a new editor might be a good time
21:45:29 <VimDiesel> Title: Why Emacs Keys are Painful
21:45:40 <kenrap> bobemoe: Emacs is also insanely customizable. Just keep in mind, to get the most out of emacs, you have to get used to it's key bindings approach.
21:46:02 <bobemoe> RhodiumToad, yeah saw magit looks good
21:46:50 <bobemoe> kenrap, yeah the keybindings do look quite confusing, trying to find some logic in there :/
21:47:02 <bobemoe> its certainly a learning curve!
21:48:05 <kenrap> There is logic and patterns to them, it's just a matter of if you like them or not.
21:48:44 <signalblue> debdrup: I'll go with LDAP, thanks.
21:49:57 <bobemoe> kenrap, yeah i figured there must be some logic to them, just not sure what it is yet ;) shame about the physical location of them on modern keyboards, just looking at some ergonomic specific coding keyboards
21:50:35 * RhodiumToad binds a lot of function keys :-)
21:51:29 <kenrap> See? You really have to love that ^
21:54:20 <kenrap> I'm too much of a lazy sinner to get the knack of it.
21:55:23 <Beladona> Ok, am I missing something? chmod a+rx yt-dlp
21:55:24 <Beladona>  yt-dlp -> fish: Unknown command: yt-dlp
21:56:16 <RhodiumToad> is it in your path?
21:56:33 <Beladona> its in the folder Iam in
21:56:44 <Beladona> I do `ls`, i see yt-dlp there
21:56:48 <meena> Beladona: Unix doesn't put . in the path
21:56:54 <RhodiumToad> the current directory is not usually on the path
21:57:07 <Beladona> oh so I can't run it in any dir?
21:57:14 <RhodiumToad> ./yt-dlp
21:57:18 <Beladona> same
21:57:35 <Beladona> env: python3: No such file or directory
21:57:40 <bobemoe> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/115862490391 looks awesome, nice ctrl placement, not sure about the price :/
21:57:41 <VimDiesel> Title: Kinesis Advantage 2 KB600 Ergonomic Keyboard | eBay
21:58:11 <RhodiumToad> there's a port for yt-dlp, I believe, which takes care of details like fixing the interpreter name
21:58:25 <RhodiumToad> otherwise, install the python3 metaport
21:58:39 <bobemoe> RhodiumToad, how many can you bind? just read something saying there was a limited number of user bindable keys, is that ture?
21:58:57 * V_PauAmma_V nods at debdrup.
22:00:08 <Beladona> RhodiumToad I already have python311
22:00:11 <Beladona> what metaport?
22:01:12 <RhodiumToad> python3
22:01:57 <kenrap> oh is python311 now the default version?
22:02:05 <RhodiumToad> python3 just depends on the default python3x version and adds symlinks for "python3" etc.
22:03:25 <Beladona> RhodiumToad https://pastebin.mozilla.org/RazagMgS  luajit issue again. maybe we locked it
22:03:27 <VimDiesel> Title: Mozilla Community Pastebin/RazagMgS (Plain Code)
22:09:29 <RhodiumToad> Beladona: why are you trying to install luajit-openresty?
22:15:34 <bobemoe> thanks all for your input, i will certainly take a deeper look into emacs and vim.
22:20:02 <_xor> I'd have probably used emacs more, but the three things that stop me from taking the time to do so are that 1) It was slow for certain things and though I don't remember exact details now, I ran into some issues with native compilation. My laptop is macOS and native compilation was somewhat painful there where as less painful on FreeBSD. 2) LSP
22:20:02 <_xor> support, at the time at least, seemed to lag behind NeoVim and was slower too. 3) It's tough to get used to key chords when you're so used to modal commands/workflows :P
22:20:14 <_xor> I do use emacs + org-mode heavily though.
22:20:42 <_xor> Also, elisp > vimscript (though since it's lua now it's much easier).
22:21:55 <_xor> ...and yes, I know about evil mode.
22:22:27 <Beladona> RhodiumToad  its a python3 dep
22:22:32 <RhodiumToad> no its not
22:22:37 <_xor> wut
22:22:54 <_xor> Heh, go further up the tree.
22:23:06 <Beladona> RhodiumToad https://imgur.com/389BoRz.png
22:23:26 <kenrap> Yeah, I know how much vimscript sucks and why elisp is better at integrating customizations
22:25:33 <_xor> There has got to be something else that's causing luajit-openresty to be pulled in like that.
22:35:36 <kenrap> _xor: now that I recall it, Emacs 29 comes with native builtin support for LSP and 29.1 got released a month ago. So, you will need to cross out number 2 :)
22:37:12 <RhodiumToad> Beladona:  pkg rquery '%dn' python3
22:55:40 <Beladona> RhodiumToad python39
22:56:07 <Beladona> The most recent versions of packages are already installed
22:56:08 <Beladona> pkg: Package database is busy while closing!
23:00:15 <RhodiumToad> do you have any other instances of 'pkg' running?
23:04:05 <Beladona> no
23:11:53 <debdrup> "Package database is busy while closing" is a message I've been getting semi-periodically on 14-CURRENT, but since it was introduced with https://github.com/freebsd/pkg/commit/8af1054d995403 I'm wondering if it's indicative of some sort of race that existed.
23:11:54 <VimDiesel> Title: Emit an error message if sqlite3_close() fails. · freebsd/pkg@8af1054 · GitHub