01:20:40 <kenrap> That's the cool thing with having quarterly and latest repos in FreeBSD. Need fixed version stability? Use quarterly. Need rolling upgrades? Use latest.
01:21:48 <kenrap> FreeBSD packages updates: have it your way
02:09:47 <Freaky> https://github.com/Freaky/portacl rc script for mac_portacl
02:09:48 <VimDiesel> Title: GitHub - Freaky/portacl: A FreeBSD rc(8) script for mac_portacl(4)
03:51:44 <rtprio> can one interface be a member of two bridges or is that asking for trouble?
06:55:17 <kenrap> kevans: heh, sorry for not giving you credit for fixing kassert as well. I do appreciate your effort. Thanks for saving me from that!
08:30:43 <meena> Freaky: you should consider pushing that into base
12:42:31 <Freaky> meena: that's the plan
13:04:05 <ccx> How can I query size of block device?
13:04:43 <ccx> i.e. blockdev --getsize64 /dev/foo in Linux
13:07:07 <Freaky> diskinfo /dev/foo, third field
13:08:29 <ccx> Thanks!
13:12:19 <Freaky> ccx: there's also kern.geom.conftxt and confxml
13:12:38 <RhodiumToad> those are somewhat harder to parse
13:13:02 <Freaky> but don't need root to access
13:13:40 <Freaky> conftxt is certainly within the realm of a trivial bit of awk
13:14:37 <RhodiumToad> the hard part is working out which device is the one of interest :-)
13:16:20 <Freaky> ❯ sysctl -n kern.geom.conftxt | awk '$3 == "da0" { print $4}'
13:16:22 <Freaky> 5000981078016
14:03:43 <mage> I have a jail with a nullfs mount, I created a symlink (ln -s) but for some unknow reason I can't remove the symlink ... any idea?
14:04:39 <debdrup> Does tracing it with (d)truss give any clues?
14:04:54 <mage> when I'm $> rm symlink it says that it's a directory
14:05:01 <mage> let me try with truss..
14:06:46 <CmdLnKid> your "rm" isn't an alias is it ?
14:07:26 <CmdLnKid> be sure by just calling /bin/rm symlink
14:07:32 <mage> https://gist.github.com/silenius/0c216d89da3d657fb9695d5df417f353
14:07:34 <VimDiesel> Title: gist:0c216d89da3d657fb9695d5df417f353 · GitHub
14:07:50 <mage> same
14:07:50 <mage> root@www-py38-2022Q2:/usr/local/www/sites/moths # /bin/rm media/
14:07:50 <mage> rm: media/: is a directory
14:08:08 <mage> this is very strange
14:08:23 <meena> Freaky: maybe try to get it into 14? one week left before stable branches :O
14:08:51 <CmdLnKid> don't add the trailing /
14:09:21 <mage> oh.. right
14:09:28 <CmdLnKid> ;)
14:09:28 <mage> thanks
14:09:31 <CmdLnKid> np
14:10:07 <CmdLnKid> completions can be a bitch with symlinks on directories
14:10:12 <mage> yeah
14:11:35 <CmdLnKid> just wait till you find a symlink that was created with (ln -sf 'symlink/' /path/foo)
14:14:03 <CmdLnKid> well shit, that used to work
14:15:06 <meena> it's been normalized sometime in the past 20 or 30 years, or however long i've used Unix
14:15:20 <CmdLnKid> yeah
14:15:40 <CmdLnKid> i seem to recall doing that for a test somewhere back in '06 ish
14:16:06 <meena> i think I've been using a Unix for about 22~ years.
14:16:31 <CmdLnKid> '94 here with slackware linux
14:17:03 <CmdLnKid> '01 with freebsd 4.11-RELEASE bought from staples
14:17:49 <meena> I started using a computer at home about a month or two before starting computer school in 2000 (when I was sixteen), and it took about less than months to get sick of Windows
14:18:15 <meena> but I think I only started on FreeBSD when I got my Apache commit bit.
14:18:16 <turtle> i don't think 4.11 was out in 01, because i frist tried freebsd 4.6 and it was like.. 02 i think?
14:18:53 <turtle> the dates don't sound so far away but it's so hard to remember :-( i'm old now
14:19:11 <CmdLnKid> could have been close to there
14:20:33 <CmdLnKid> was with a friend getting office supplies and other stuff when i seen it and thought im'a going to buy it "Power to Serve" caught my eyes
14:20:45 <CmdLnKid> and the price was right
14:22:18 <CmdLnKid> still have the disc's framed and the book that came with it
14:23:47 <RhodiumToad> the dates of releases are all in /usr/share/misc/bsd-family-tree
14:24:09 <RhodiumToad> FreeBSD 4.11            2005-01-25 [FBD]
14:24:37 <RhodiumToad> 4.3 and 4.4 were out in 01
14:26:20 <CmdLnKid> hmmm maybe my dates are off
14:26:58 <CmdLnKid> maybe it is 4.4
14:27:17 <CmdLnKid> the complete freebsd book is copyrighted 1999
14:27:21 <ketas> mfsroot.flp
14:27:29 <ketas> remember thisp
14:27:30 <ketas> ?
14:27:37 <CmdLnKid> yes
14:28:01 <CmdLnKid> im going to have to locate the discs in storage now
14:28:29 <ketas> 4.6 was my first
14:29:11 <RhodiumToad> 2.1.[67] here
14:29:33 <rtprio> 3.2 or 3.3. did a few floppy installs and at least one over ppp
14:29:36 <CmdLnKid> ISBN: 1-57176-246-246-9 came with the set
14:29:50 <meena> i do enjoy when in this channel i go, gosh, I'm old, and other people chime in, to make me feel young.
14:30:39 <ketas> old old meena
14:30:56 <CmdLnKid> lol meena
14:30:59 <CmdLnKid> yw
14:31:25 <ketas> i luckily had whole 256k/64k dsl at the time i had to install fbsd
14:31:28 <CmdLnKid> never ask a woman here age... ask her what freebsd she started with
14:31:50 <ketas> CmdLnKid: made my day
14:32:36 <CmdLnKid> you ask a random woman that you will either get a version number ... or a slap in the face
14:32:37 <meena> CmdLnKid: shortly before VIMAGE was merged into GENERIC.
14:33:01 <ketas> unsure why slap
14:33:26 <ketas> that does't give you age
14:34:03 <CmdLnKid> just playing around. slap in the face cause BSD might just sound like something else
14:34:22 <CmdLnKid> bad joke
14:34:54 <ketas> which version of freebdsm you started with
14:35:03 <CmdLnKid> hahaha
14:35:06 <CmdLnKid> there ya go
14:35:34 <ketas> i often write that and bsdm and correct it
14:35:37 <ketas> :/
14:35:49 <ketas> s/and/as/
14:36:06 <CmdLnKid> its too easy
14:36:58 <meena> so, i think i started with 8, or 9, and very definitely worked with 10. my memory isn't great anymore these days
14:38:06 <CmdLnKid> https://dl.acm.org/doi/book/10.5555/519181
14:38:32 <CmdLnKid> definately was 4.4 maybe 4.2 here.
14:38:52 <CmdLnKid> haven't been to my storage yet
14:39:13 <CmdLnKid> all i know tho is 5 was absolute shit
14:41:42 <CmdLnKid> best part i had about 5 was my roommate wanted to use the internet but she was computer illiterate and a only microsoft user that was always provided to her and caught her trying to figure out my freebsd station
14:42:20 <CmdLnKid> the confusion when she only seen a login prompt was priceless
14:42:22 <RhodiumToad> 5 was a necessary evil in between 4 and 6
14:42:30 <CmdLnKid> yeah
14:42:51 <CmdLnKid> those giant locks were some hell
14:44:32 <CmdLnKid> my logs showed login attempt from amy
14:44:44 <CmdLnKid> i was like are you friggin serious
14:46:40 <vkarlsen> I started with 5.something
14:47:09 <CmdLnKid> good times
14:48:03 <vkarlsen> I've always been too dumb to stop when something hurts
15:39:44 <paulf> 2.1 was the first FreeBSD that I installed
15:41:16 <ketas> ones came out
15:41:34 <ketas> who installed 1?
15:41:39 <ketas> and <1
15:41:48 <ketas> pre-fbsd
15:41:56 * CmdLnKid installs "Just for Men" on vkarlsen 
15:42:15 <CmdLnKid> ;)
15:42:29 <CmdLnKid> don't worry im not long behind you
15:43:28 <ketas> 1.0 is bit early for me
15:43:38 <ketas> as i was 10
15:43:47 <ketas> although i would have tried
15:43:57 <ketas> if presented
15:45:44 <ketas> soviet union had just collapsed, hell with computers
15:45:50 <paulf> I used Apollo Domain OS and HP-UX 7 before FreeBSD, and various "PC" OSes (PC-DOS 3+, OS/2 2.0+)
15:46:11 <ketas> which also required having friends
15:46:29 * CmdLnKid sends two boxes of just for me to paulf
15:46:33 <ketas> i don't people
15:46:37 <CmdLnKid> ;)
15:46:50 <CmdLnKid> with an n even
15:46:55 <ketas> paulf: the age?
15:47:27 <ketas> must be 60
15:47:33 <paulf> me? 56. the computers? early 90s
15:47:46 <paulf> late 80s for PC-DOS
15:47:49 <ketas> yeah close
15:47:58 * CmdLnKid sends respect to paulf 
15:48:08 <ketas> just turned 40 recently
15:48:12 <CmdLnKid> paved the gateway
15:48:18 <ketas> 40y1w2d
15:49:52 <jgh> 4.2 BSD.  And before that, Edition 7.
15:53:32 <CmdLnKid> im as old as 3 years after ARPANET was created
15:54:08 <CmdLnKid> from 1975, misquoted
15:54:36 <CmdLnKid> i only read about ot back then
15:55:06 <ketas> hp-ux is STILL a thing
15:55:15 <ketas> why oh why
15:55:25 <CmdLnKid> ikr
15:55:45 <CmdLnKid> i feel really aweful for those companies
15:56:38 <CmdLnKid> VMS is still a thing and making a pretty amazing comeback
15:56:54 <CmdLnKid> ecited for the security
15:57:15 <ketas> well variation is good
15:57:38 <ketas> aix too
15:57:43 <ketas> there
16:01:36 <CmdLnKid> https://defcon.org/images/defcon-16/dc16-presentations/defcon-16-oberg-nyberg-tusini.pdf
16:02:06 <CmdLnKid> and yes ... deathrow is dead
16:02:28 <CmdLnKid> $term session expired
16:31:05 <jkc> How might I start diagnosing a rather noticeable delay during the boot process? The system stops at a certain point in the boot process (logs incoming) for right around 60 seconds. It does nothing, and responds to nothing. After this, it seems fine, with no evidence of any further issues.
16:31:55 <jkc> https://termbin.com/as02
16:32:20 <jkc> And the last line output to console before the freeze is: ugen0.2: <QEMU QEMU USB Tablet> at usbus0
16:33:34 <jkc> (This is on a fresh 13.2R install, fully patched)
16:34:58 <jkc> KVM VM on Vultr. I thought that this might have been the virtio_random thing I ran into ages ago, but this has different behavior.
16:38:08 <RhodiumToad> is that with verbose on?
16:38:18 <RhodiumToad> (if not, do it again with verbose)
16:38:50 <jkc> On it.
16:38:59 <RhodiumToad> oh, if this is a VM, maybe disable the presumably pointless sound driver?
16:40:51 <jkc> That's just a devmatch_blocklist entry in rc.conf, iirc?
16:41:17 <RhodiumToad> no
16:41:27 <RhodiumToad> you'd need a hint in /boot/loader.conf
16:43:13 <RhodiumToad> hint.hdaa.0.disabled="1"  and  hint.hdac.0.disabled="1"
16:43:38 <jkc> Thank ya.
16:49:13 <jkc> https://termbin.com/blqn
16:49:23 <jkc> Verbose enabled, sound devices disabled I think.
16:49:30 <jkc> Same delay, same place.
16:52:09 <RhodiumToad> is there anything else in loader.conf?
17:08:43 <jkc> Just what's put there by default at install time. Want me to paste it?
17:16:33 <RhodiumToad> y
17:35:13 <Rue> so i just deleted the package 'polybar' (which has pulseaudio as its dependency), so during the deletion process it mentioned that i should manually remove the "pulse" user, the "pulse" group, the "pulse-access" group, and the "pulse-rt" group. when i ran 'rmuser' to delete the 'pulse' user, it asks me to confirm whether or not i would like to remove the user's home directory (/nonexistent). it's
17:35:15 <Rue> fine to do so right? just trying to make sure it's not some sort of place holder home directory ('cuz i noticed a lot of other user accounts in /etc/passwd also has /nonexistent as their home folder.
17:36:14 <RhodiumToad> lots of users have that as their homedir, but it should never actually exist so you shouldn't be able to remove it :-)
17:42:35 <Rue> RhodiumToad: thanks :P
17:50:12 <jkc> RhodiumToad: https://termbin.com/qmzm
18:04:42 <jgh> v