05:42:58 <markmcb> is it possible to have the loader check for a keyfile, and only if it doesn't exist ask for a passphrase for a geli encrypted root? not seeing much in the docs on this.
05:43:49 <fireglow> I'm on 13.2-STABLE, and recently `uname -a` doesn't show the kernel build date anymore. Is there a way to get it without looking at filesystem timestamps?
05:57:34 <rtprio> fireglow: what does it show?
05:58:45 <fireglow> rtprio: right now it shows "FreeBSD localhost 13.2-STABLE FreeBSD 13.2-STABLE n255613-6322a6c9daaa TEST amd64"
05:59:40 <RhodiumToad> iirc, that's a reproducible builds thing
06:00:22 <RhodiumToad> WITHOUT_REPRODUCIBLE_BUILD=1 in src.conf might be what you want
06:01:40 <fireglow> RhodiumToad: indeed! Impressive! Thank you!
06:01:46 <RhodiumToad> markmcb: where would the loader check for a keyfile?
06:03:19 <markmcb> i assume that'd have to be defined. ideally anywhere. a removable usb drive, a disk partition, etc.
06:05:29 <markmcb> for example, in linux with luks, i just say "look for UUID 1234". if it exists, try to load /path/key. if that fails, passphrase is the fallback.
06:06:27 <markmcb> judging by some posts i've read, i get the impression this isn't possible
06:13:12 <RhodiumToad>  /* XXX TODO: Support loading key files. */
06:14:03 <RhodiumToad> I think that answers it
06:15:10 <markmcb> indeed :)
06:53:16 <rtprio> reproducible -- that's a new one to me
07:55:38 <doug713705> Hello, since I made a pkg update and now zfs list shows "zroot" using 41.2GB but (same as zpool list) but ncdu or df show only 28.4GB.  I really cant find where are the 12.4GB. (freebsd 13.2-p1).
08:03:09 <RhodiumToad> do you have any snapshots?
08:03:22 <doug713705> the pool is a single partition of 48G
08:03:33 <doug713705> I deleted the remaining sanpshots
08:04:07 <RhodiumToad> zfs list -o space
08:06:18 <doug713705> I delete all snapshots except the most recent, which size 18G
08:06:37 <doug713705> I may have misread that this one is needed for boot
08:06:56 <doug713705> Can i safely delete it ?
08:08:37 <RhodiumToad> are you using boot environments?
08:09:40 <doug713705> I dont know, i discovered boot env today ! I deleted the other snapshots with bectl
08:09:56 <RhodiumToad> (you don't need any snapshots in order to boot, but it's common when using boot environments to keep the previous one around as a snapshot in order to revert to it in the event of problems)
08:10:06 <doug713705> I mean, if the default install use boot environment then I use it
08:12:01 <doug713705> And I'm a bit confused about it. bectl list show 2 environement, one called "default" which I presume is actually running and another with a timestamp in its name.
08:12:46 <doug713705> default was creation date is 2223-12-05 !
08:13:49 <doug713705> sorry for my bad english, I tried to sort this out all day
08:25:28 <doug713705> RhodiumToad: Thank you to point me out to boot environements. Reading the bectl man page wes enlightning. I deleted the remaining boot environements except the one noted "NR" and all is Ok now
08:26:39 <yuripv> except for the "default" creation date being in distant future :)
08:26:58 <doug713705> yes, this is very strange
08:27:09 <RhodiumToad> what's a couple of hundred years between friends
08:27:25 <RhodiumToad> possibly, when the install was done, the system clock was way wrong?
08:28:20 <doug713705> this a virtualbox VM, everything is possible
08:39:33 <uuidNuniq> how do you merge conf files in  /usr/local/etc/ if any?
08:41:43 <RhodiumToad> merge them with what?
08:43:15 <RhodiumToad> the general principle for conf files from packages is that things like startup/shutdown scripts are part of the package and those just get updated,
08:44:08 <RhodiumToad> while config files have two versions: a .sample file which belongs to the package, and the actual conf file which belongs to the user, and is created by installing the package _only if it doesn't already exist_
08:45:43 <RhodiumToad> afaik (unlike /etc) there's no general assumption that package config files can be updated in any sane [semi-]automated way
08:46:35 <uuidNuniq> looks like there aren't many important conf files in /usr/local/etc
08:46:59 <RhodiumToad> well that depends on what packages you have installed :-)
08:50:09 <uuidNuniq> so, when a pkg introduce a new conf file, the .sample is updated, the user conf file is untouched, there won't be stuff like /usr/local/etc/NAME/NAME.conf.new like most Linux distro does
08:58:03 <uuidNuniq> let's say, the package sudo has a conf file in  /usr/local/etc/sudoers . when sudo got upgraded  AND it introduces new syntax or add/deperecates some options.
08:59:03 <uuidNuniq> how does freebsd handle this by default? or the admin needs to read the changelog and do manual changes?
09:05:09 <RhodiumToad> the admin needs to deal with it
09:07:58 <uuidNuniq> i got it, thanks RhodiumToad
09:55:14 <jean-loups> hello
09:56:20 <RhodiumToad> good morning or other timezone-appropriate greeting
10:19:08 <jean-loups> good morning RhodiumToad
11:17:22 <debdrup> good <time of day>
12:13:11 <megaTherion> Is starting a non-uefi VM (x86) still no thing in bhyve?
12:13:35 <RhodiumToad> non-uefi in what sense?
12:14:51 <otis> booting using "bios" perhaps? it is possible, you don't need to use UEFI
12:15:01 <otis> althouhg, i'd recommend it.
12:16:00 <megaTherion> I'd have a very old WinXP inst which I'd like to keep if possible.. don't need it often
12:17:21 <RhodiumToad> have you tried booting it in bhyve using the CSM firmware?
12:18:12 <megaTherion> RhodiumToad: loader="csm" ?
12:18:33 <RhodiumToad> no
12:18:48 <megaTherion> well as said, I don't know how to do it ;)
12:19:25 <RhodiumToad> are you using bhyve raw or via some wrapper tool?
12:20:42 <megaTherion> I use vm(8)
12:21:25 <megaTherion> Churcher's bhyve tool
12:25:01 <RhodiumToad> that looks a bit ... old?
12:25:33 <RhodiumToad> even so, loader="uefi-csm"  looks like the option you want
12:26:42 <megaTherion> RhodiumToad: not sure if it's old, it just works ;)
12:26:58 <megaTherion> well uefi-csm make's it start - but doesn't provide graphics_* ?
12:27:58 <megaTherion> I knew there was a problem, it is just too long ago since I tried last time
12:29:12 <RhodiumToad> graphics_vga="on"  will be necessary, don't know if it's also sufficient
12:30:07 <megaTherion> Juli 09 14:29:30:  [bhyve options: -c 1 -m 1G -Hwl bootrom,/usr/local/share/uefi-firmware/BHYVE_UEFI_CSM.fd -H -U edcea0ad-1e52-11ee-a08b-ac1f6be8253a -u]
12:30:16 <megaTherion> well graphics_vga="on" doesn't work either
12:30:20 <megaTherion> but its booting, kind of
12:30:30 <RhodiumToad> did it change the bhyve options at all?
12:30:35 <megaTherion> no
12:31:32 <RhodiumToad> do you also have  graphics="yes"  ?
12:32:43 <megaTherion> no but thanks, that actually worked
12:33:31 <RhodiumToad> graphical performance probably won't be great :-)
12:33:52 <megaTherion> I dont need much, it's mostly for 1-2 IDEs
12:34:03 <megaTherion> if I get RDP running thats great then :)
15:36:24 <cadmio> Hello
15:36:29 <cadmio> what's the definition of filesystem?
15:46:30 <skered> Anyone having issues getting texlive-texmf-20230313.pkg  from FreeBSD repos?
15:48:13 <yuripv> Fetching texlive-texmf-20230313.pkg:  18%  216 MiB  14.3MB/s    01:31 ETA
15:48:39 <skered> Lets see if it can finish.
15:49:35 <yuripv> yes, Fetching texlive-texmf-20230313.pkg: 100%    1 GiB  13.7MB/s    01:31 :)
15:50:53 <kevans> I had to disable fetch_timeout to get my pkgbase install to work
15:50:57 <kevans> with pkg 1.20
15:51:47 <kevans> apparently libcurl timeout is from request start and doesn't care if the transfer's still making progress, so anything longer than 30 seconds is borked here by default
15:53:49 <skered> Ok that must be my issue too.
15:54:08 <skered> Getting a size mismatch after 30 seconds
15:54:50 <yuripv> why libcurl though?
15:55:07 <skered> 1.20 switched.
15:56:23 <yuripv> i see, still on 1.19.2 (and pkg install pkg says i have the latest)
16:34:31 <debdrup> a filesystem is a system of files, obviously
16:53:55 <markmcb> is there anything like pstree, but for jails? i.e., a hierarchy view of which jail initiated which processes?
16:55:50 <yuripv> ps -d -J <jid>?
17:18:47 <markmcb> yuripv, thanks! didn't know about the -J option, this is perfect
17:20:18 <antranigv> so now we have libcurl in base?
17:20:39 <antranigv> markmcb a lot of commands have the -j/-J flag, it's just perfect.
17:25:09 <uuidNuniq> antranigv: it's a whole system
17:25:18 <uuidNuniq> not a kernel + psmisc
17:26:25 <antranigv> uuidNuniq I know what FreeBSD is :) I was just wondering if we added libcurl into base or is pkg 1.20 using libcurl built into it
17:27:44 <uuidNuniq> i want curl in the base
17:30:29 <V_PauAmma_V> antranigv, ldd /usr/local/sbin/pkg doesn't show it using libcurl. Or libfetch.
17:30:47 <antranigv> V_PauAmma_V 1.20?
17:31:17 <V_PauAmma_V> Ah, not yet. 1.19.2.
17:31:31 <V_PauAmma_V> Should I be wary of that?
17:31:47 <V_PauAmma_V> Of that version, I mean?
17:33:54 <antranigv> V_PauAmma_V I think we should do some good testing, since it's pretty massive change. I need to check if libfetch's env vars work properly as well. here's the file that does most of libcurl stuff in pkg https://github.com/freebsd/pkg/blob/master/libpkg/fetch_libcurl.c
17:33:55 <VimDiesel> Title: pkg/libpkg/fetch_libcurl.c at master · freebsd/pkg · GitHub
17:33:57 * antranigv Be right back. 
17:37:49 <V_PauAmma_V> https://github.com/freebsd/pkg/blob/caaafa6d6130a39f27fb48070598a394ba2f607d/libpkg/fetch_libcurl.c#L152 Looks like a typoed environment var name.
17:37:51 <VimDiesel> Title: pkg/libpkg/fetch_libcurl.c at caaafa6d6130a39f27fb48070598a394ba2f607d · freebsd/pkg · GitHub
17:38:25 <CCFL_Man> wc -w should give me a file count if a pipe an ls to it, right?
17:42:42 <V_PauAmma_V> Nope. Filenames can contain spaces and other nonword characters. You may want wc -l instead. (Can you create filenames with \n in them?)
17:43:10 <thumbs> no, IIRC
17:44:06 <paulf> I would say / and nul are the only two that you can't use
17:44:34 <V_PauAmma_V> Or use one of the "display special characters as \... escapes" ls options.
17:46:30 <CCFL_Man> so use ls -l then
17:48:02 <markmcb> is there a way to list network interfaces that have been consumed by a jail, without querying the jail itself? i.e., ifconfig will show them absent, but is there a way to show the absent items?
17:48:07 <uuidNuniq> CCFL_Man: ls is not suitable for parsing
17:48:23 <uuidNuniq> use find -print0
17:50:03 <CCFL_Man> ah
17:50:50 <uuidNuniq> ohh , but wc does not have --files0-from=- option
17:51:24 <markmcb> for example, ifconfig -l, outputs: ixl0 ixl1 igb0 igb1 lo0 iavf7 iavf8 iavf9. i would like to see iavf0 through iavf6, and ideally which jail has them.
17:54:04 <uuidNuniq> CCFL_Man: oh you want to show the words in file? then, probably using this:  ls -l | while read file; do wc -w "$file" ; done
17:56:47 <uuidNuniq> sorry, not ls -l , but ls -1. but ls will list dirs as well.
17:58:14 <uuidNuniq> so not a good idea, probably `find . -type f -maxdepth 1 -mindepth 1  | while read ... `
18:00:04 <CCFL_Man> uuidNuniq: no, just an actual file count in a directory. there are no other directories inside, just files
18:01:10 <uuidNuniq> CCFL_Man: you want count how many files in a directory?
18:01:50 <uuidNuniq> ls -1A | wc -l
18:07:24 <CCFL_Man> yes, just a count
18:09:18 <CCFL_Man> perfect!!
18:09:23 <CCFL_Man> thank you guys!
18:41:21 <yuripv> there's also a zfs thing that "size of directory" shows the number of files, so dirty hack: stat -f %z dir/
18:41:54 <CCFL_Man> thanks!
18:42:11 <yuripv> (don't use it, saying just for fun :D)
18:57:38 <last1> does anyone have a link to a guide/tutorial for installing FreeBSD using zfs but not on the entire disk ?
18:59:38 <V_PauAmma_V> Do you mean "while leaving unused space other than the ZFS partition and the swap partition?
19:00:08 <last1> I think I need a boot partition, zfs and swap yes
19:00:16 <last1> and leave the rest unused
19:03:56 <V_PauAmma_V> If you don't get an answer meanwhile, ping me in 2-3 hours? I need to install ZFS VMs (and can therefore refresh my memory of the details) after a nap.
19:16:39 <last1> alright, thanks
19:38:10 <skered> kevans: How do you get that timeout value down to a poudriere pkg?  FETCH_TIMEOUT.
19:39:33 <skered> kevans: poudriere jail ... start it jexec into add /usr/local/etc/pkg.conf?
19:40:34 <meena> skered: you don't need to start / jexec for that. just copy the file in the right location
19:42:03 <skered> I was thinking a start/jexec might be needed if it was bind mounting something that was already in the mount /usr/local/poudriere/jails/<jail>/usr/local
19:42:14 <skered> Because it's empty right now
19:55:13 <last1> I'm following a guide off the FreeBSD wiki and I've booted a FreeBSD installation USB
19:55:31 <last1> I've gotten the partition installed but when I'm creating the zroot it says that it can't mount it because my install media is read-only
19:55:42 <last1> I've tried remounting as rw with mount -o rw /
19:55:45 <last1> but it won't let me
19:55:55 <mason> last1: you want to mount onto /mnt probably
19:56:01 <last1> I can't do it there either
19:56:08 <mason> also note that in the installer media, everything's read-only by default
19:56:22 <last1> I've tried zpool create -o altroot=/mnt
19:56:49 <last1> cannot mount /mnt/zroot failed to create mountpoint, the fs is read-only
19:57:05 <mason> Maybe zpool create -R /mnt
19:57:34 <mason> Oh, that should be about the same. -R  also turns off the cachefile, so maybe that's the issue.
19:57:41 <mason>      -R root   Equivalent to -o cachefile=none -o altroot=root
19:57:58 <mason> Try with -R or by adding the cachefile option, and maybe that'll work out better.
19:58:20 <last1> nope, same error
19:58:31 <mason> Strange.
19:59:02 <last1> yeah, following this guide here: https://wiki.freebsd.org/RootOnZFS/GPTZFSBoot/Mirror
19:59:03 <VimDiesel> Title: RootOnZFS/GPTZFSBoot/Mirror - FreeBSD Wiki
19:59:55 <mason> Hm, that doesn't show that option. Wonder how that's supposed to work.
20:00:09 <mason> last1: For comparison, I do this somewhat often: https://wiki.freebsd.org/MasonLoringBliss/ZFSandGELIbyHAND
20:00:10 <VimDiesel> Title: MasonLoringBliss/ZFSandGELIbyHAND - FreeBSD Wiki
20:00:25 <last1> they just show this: zpool create zroot mirror /dev/gpt/disk0 /dev/gpt/disk1
20:00:32 <last1> which tries to create zroot on /
20:00:35 <mason> Yeah.
20:00:36 <mason> Weird.
20:00:40 <last1> which is a nono
20:00:45 <mason> Something else I do if I want to ssh in to do the install: https://wiki.freebsd.org/MasonLoringBliss/InstallEnvironment
20:00:46 <VimDiesel> Title: MasonLoringBliss/InstallEnvironment - FreeBSD Wiki
20:01:53 <mason> The normal installer itself isn't bad, although it doesn't do a complete job if you're on a UEFI system. I'm maybe going to fix that if I get a thumbs-up from one of a collection of folks.
20:02:12 <mason> s/one of/any &/
20:03:05 <last1> normal installer is great, but I want to install only on part of the disk
20:03:13 <last1> I fixed it by doing mount -uw /
20:03:19 <last1> and then zfs mount zroot
20:03:29 <last1> not ideal but it worked
20:04:15 <mason> That doesn't seem quite right, that method.
20:04:42 <mason> You'll have a hard time installing if 1) your pool is not mounted and accessible, or 2) it is but it's masking your actually root
20:05:39 <mason> There could be something I'm entirely missing. If so, you can modify what I do in my install guide to accomodate a partial-disk install. I've done so to get FreeBSD to be one of like five OSes I installed on my (mirrored SSD) laptop once, to see if I could do it cleanly.
20:05:44 <last1> I have nothing else to try :|
20:05:49 <mason> Well.
20:05:58 <last1> let me try to complete the install this way
20:06:01 <last1> see if it works
20:06:01 <mason> Sure.
20:06:16 <last1> I'm doing this because my drives are 4Tb SSD and I only want to use 120Gb for the OS
20:06:21 <last1> and the rest for the zfs special device
20:07:26 <mason> Sure, that's fine.
20:08:04 <egl> seems like an odd layout, but I just showed up
20:15:16 <last1> why is it an odd layout ?
20:16:53 <egl> when you say "I want to use 120Gb for the OS," what portions of the OS file system are you intending to place on that partition? Just /, /etc, /tmp, /usr, etc? What are you intending to use the ZFS pool for?
20:17:17 <last1> I have 200Tb of attached HDDs that will be the actual storage
20:17:28 <last1> the SSDs are just for boot/metadata
20:18:01 <last1> I have 200Tb of attached HDDs that will be the actual storage
20:18:03 <last1> the SSDs are just for boot/metadata
20:18:37 <egl> So the 200Tb's are going to be zpool(s)?
20:18:41 <last1> yes
20:19:00 <egl> Did you want your home folders and /var/lib/ in zpools?
20:19:25 <last1> no, those go with the os on zroot
20:19:45 <CCFL_Man> last1: if i install an hba and disk shelf, as long as the hba is in IT mode, the drives installed in the disk shelf should simply appear as devices?
20:19:55 <egl> I guess that is what makes it a bit of an odd layout for me.
20:20:12 <CCFL_Man> i can mount them normally?
20:21:35 <egl> Are the zpools for resilience? RAID? And snapshots?
20:24:06 <egl> Most of my zfs setups minimize how much of the OS FS I place on a static drive. I mean, rigtnow im running root on zfs across two SSD's, but I have a few where root is next to the EFS(boot) vol, and the rest of the disk(s) are pooled to handle home, /var/lib/(docker, etc).
20:24:50 <last1> but that's on an external shelf where I keep app data
20:24:57 <last1> I don't want to put together os/user data with app data
20:24:58 <egl> Aha.
20:25:12 <last1> CGFL: correct
20:25:26 <last1> mason: the setup worked fine with mount -uw /
20:29:29 <mason> last1: I bet it was the cache file handling. I bet once you made root read-write it was able to write out the cachefile, or at least fail differently.
20:38:34 <last1> could be
20:38:36 <last1> one last question
20:38:49 <last1> is there a way to see a list of all pools, even those that aren't imported yet
20:38:57 <last1> zpool list only shows imported ones
20:45:06 <rtprio> no; `zpool import ` will show not imported ones
20:56:10 <rtprio> can someone explain why zroot/var has the property mounted=no ?
21:02:31 <DrKK`> rtprio:
21:02:45 <DrKK`> assuming you haven't done anything strange in the interim since the default install,
21:03:50 <DrKK`> hang on, there are good explanation of this, and it doesn't make sense for me to just give a hackneyed explanation
21:04:48 <DrKK`> here:
21:04:49 <DrKK`> https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/why-are-usr-and-var-not-in-a-boot-environment.59844/
21:04:50 <VimDiesel> Title: ZFS - Why are /usr and /var not in a boot environment? | The FreeBSD Forums
21:10:32 <rtprio> DrKK`: right, default installer
21:13:17 <rtprio> thanks, that's helpful. basically "for bectl" and you can mount them if you want but then you're way off the rails when bectl tries to make sense of it
23:07:43 <last1> rtprio: thank you , that worked