00:01:46 In case anyone is curious, on my php-gnupg adventure ... it's a bug in gpgme, and potentially the PHP module as well. 00:04:52 > so.. we can't just download and install enlightenment is what you're saying 00:05:15 kindred: there are packages, 00:05:16 Title: FreshPorts -- x11-wm/enlightenment: Artistic and fast X window manager 00:12:52 has freebsd been working on a replacement for openzfs because even though its not GPL licensed software, it is still weak copyleft even just on the files 00:15:31 ...no? 00:15:54 it's still CDDL, no? 00:17:04 yes 00:17:43 it was CDDL before freebsd switched upstreams to use openzfs 00:17:54 replacing it is not a feasible project 00:24:50 So. I found a potential bug in php*, combined with php*-pecl-gnupg. 00:25:14 Namely, the latter can never work unless I manually modify `php-fpm.d/www.conf` to add /usr/local/bin to $PATH. 00:26:18 (it needs the `gpg` executable & friends) 00:27:59 is it explicitly setting $PATH, or is it inheriting it from somewhere else? 00:28:29 By default (as www.conf is currently packaged), $PATH is empty. 00:29:14 Which means that unless I manually modify www.conf to add /usr/local/bin to $PATH, php*-pecl-gnupg simply won't work. 00:29:40 (and it took me *way too long* to figure that out due to [non-FreeBSD-specific] bugs in both gpgme *and* php-gnupg --- the former errors out when it shouldn't, and the latter silently ignores it when it shouldn't) 00:30:16 If you want the full story: https://community.passbolt.com/t/the-openpgp-key-can-not-be-used-to-encrypt-in-freebsd/7800/15 00:30:18 Title: "The OpenPGP key can not be used to encrypt." in FreeBSD - #15 by darkuranium - Installation Issues - Passbolt community forum 00:30:24 $PATH is actually set to an empty string? 00:30:25 (linked reply is the most relevant one) 00:30:57 RhodiumToad: no, it's simply not set (I believe). PHP-FPM's default behaviour appears to be to clear its environment. 00:31:14 procstat -e can usually display the environment of a process 00:31:16 I'm guessing Linux distros override that to make `php-gnupg` work or something? 00:31:37 Yeah, I just did a . Was an empty string. 00:32:13 Not sure how I'd get procstat of an existing process. But ANYWAY. 00:32:30 Most likely just missing, considering. I could check, but it's 2:30 AM and I kinda wanna go to sleep >_< 00:33:05 procstat -e somepid 00:33:26 Ah. Thanks. 00:34:26 The usual daemon `PATH=/sbin:/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin PWD=/ HOME=/ RC_PID=62165 BLOCKSIZE=K`. 00:34:48 But www.conf does *not* set `clear_env = no`, and default is `yes`. 00:34:49 execvp() uses _PATH_DEFPATH if PATH is not set in the environment 00:34:57 So php-fpm clears it. 00:35:54 I had to do `clear_env = no` (for other reasons), plus: 00:36:15 `env[PATH] = /usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:......` 00:36:18 and _PATH_DEFPATH usually includes /usr/local/bin 00:36:23 The latter is the most important one. 00:36:36 Yeah, I think it just inherits it from the "root" `php-fpm` process otherwise. Which is above. 00:36:45 I guess ultimately from rc? 00:36:45 usually the /usr/local/* dirs go at the end 00:36:54 Well, either way, point is, they're missing. 00:37:11 what freebsd version? 00:37:26 12.4-RELEASE. Oldish, I know. 00:37:43 rc does set PATH to /sbin:/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin overriding daemon's login class 00:38:06 Yup. 00:38:24 I guess maybe this could be fixed in php-fpm's rc script? To unset PATH? 00:38:43 ... though it still wouldn't be a full solution unless `clear_env = no` *or* `env[PATH] = ...`. 00:38:52 (but a simple `env[PATH] = $PATH` would work then) 00:39:05 clear_env can't be clearing $PATH 00:39:16 if it were, it would have worked 00:39:27 Well, no. It clears PHP's `getenv()`. 00:39:39 I think it basically clears it for the spawned subprocesses. 00:39:47 no, I mean it can't be clearing the environment for subprocesses 00:40:00 can't be clearing PATH specifically for those, that is 00:40:07 Aaah. Right, because then they'd get _PATH_DEFPATH? 00:40:14 Maybe it *is* setting it to an empty string, then. 00:40:55 dunno. maybe try invoking env as a spawned subprocess and see what that says. 00:41:20 Maybe if you remind me tomorrow, I *really* should go sleep >_< 00:41:21 (sorry!) 00:42:59 Good night ^^ 00:43:05 Thanks for the help. 03:39:14 lets say i create a zfs device pool with one device at /dev/da0. if i move to to another drive controller, how to i replace the device path in the pool with the new device name of /dev/ad2 and preserve the data? 03:40:37 I don't think you need to 03:41:49 it'll just locate it based on the metadata when the zfs service is running? 05:50:31 CCFL_Man: with ZFS, when you give a device to a pool, the device gains four copies of a vdev label. The label includes the pool_guid number. Labelling will persist beyond future actions such as removal, detachment, and destruction. 05:51:00 05:51:02 Title: zpool-remove.8 — OpenZFS documentation 05:51:10 05:51:12 Title: zpool-detach.8 — OpenZFS documentation 05:51:20 05:51:22 Title: zpool-destroy.8 — OpenZFS documentation 05:53:26 those labels are a menace, as shown by recent incidents 05:53:29 Clearance of labels is typically performed with zpool-labelclear(8) . 05:53:30 Title: zpool-labelclear.8 — OpenZFS documentation 05:55:41 CCFL_Man: you might like to check for the presence of labels on the first of the devices with which you tested, the device from which you 'moved', for example: 05:56:28 zdb -l /dev/da0 05:56:51 This assumes that you used a whole disk (not recommended) for the test. 05:57:44 RhodiumToad: no. 05:58:05 clearly yes, given the number of people suffering breakage 05:58:28 Each of the four copies is a lifesaver, in cases where (for example) removal, detachment, or destruction was mistaken. 06:05:49 doesn't help those people whose systems were not bootable due to stray labels 06:23:04 Edge cases. 06:23:50 I'm intentionally dispassionate, because I have in mind an enhancement to documentation. 06:46:17 when using bhyve is performance any better by running VNC inside the VM and connecting to it, or using the EFI console and connecting to that via VNC? 08:14:58 Saves you extra software 08:18:54 ooray, openss 3.0.9 landed. 08:20:06 crb_: both are software based framebuffers, so they're not gonna be fast no matter what - and any performance difference is likely to be small 08:20:41 debdrup, Are you excited by the news alone or are you running 14 with the OpenSSL 3 installed? 08:20:47 if your guest os is windows, rdp is faster 08:21:15 parv: mostly that re@ can start working on 14.0-RELEASE again 08:21:34 debdrup, Aye 08:21:43 the real thing i'm excited for with openssl 3.x is that ossl(4) can be extended, and that eventually aesni(4) can be retired 08:23:05 ossl(4) can be extended to do what aesni(4) does now, but for a much broader set of architectures (both assembly-optimized and SIMD-optimized versions) 08:30:12 During 2-3 recent attempts I "Stuck on ERROR-tried-to-rebuild-during-make-install,..." during installworld (log: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current/2023-June/003859.html ; /etc/{make,src}*: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current/2023-June/003860.html . That is due to c 2017 https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=212877#c21 . How do I proceed? 08:30:14 Title: Stuck on ERROR-tried-to-rebuild-during-make-install, from 1cebc9298cf to b98fbf3781, or from 9fbeeb6e3831 to dfa1982352ee 08:32:55 Per one message of "/tmp/install.PjBzUKhv0k/sh: cc: not found" -- indeed there was no "cc" in that temp directory 08:40:29 Alternatively, what would I need to do to force the build/installation of whatever missing bits the message points to? 10:07:49 parv: make clean? 10:33:28 meena, Yeah, just started that process. (I thought had tried that once by accident|mistake as I had missed to update the object & ccache directories for one of the attempts.) 10:34:22 when shit really gets bad, i make clean, and then blow away the obj dir 10:34:42 Will do 10:35:18 do you have any fancy options set? 10:35:33 i haven't seen any catastrophic failures lately 10:37:12 Ooh oh, do I?! See https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current/2023-June/003860.html mail for the options 10:37:13 Title: Re: Stuck on ERROR-tried-to-rebuild-during-make-install, from 1cebc9298cf to b98fbf3781, or from 9fbeeb6e3831 to dfa1982352ee 10:38:52 I have the memory of someone else around Feb-Mar also having the issue after llvm|clang was imported but have failed to find that message so far. 12:11:06 Few days ago did not occur to me to do world building from zero🤦 12:11:52 anyway ... 13:53:58 hello. anyone running Homeassistant on freebsd? after upgrading to python3.11 and creating a new jail, i'm getting attributeerror module 'urllib3.util' has no attribute 'protocol_tls'. i'm not sure if it could be related to Freebsd's openssl flavor? 13:59:54 well, if you have VM space available, openssl 3 just got merged into -current, could be an easy way to check that. I'm currently running kyua on a fresh -current build for similar reasons now 14:00:45 though as a disclaimer, I don't run homeassistant and I'm not totally sure if it's openssl related. It would be my hunch though. 14:04:21 how about installing the openssl3 port? 14:08:39 is there even an openssl3 in the ports tree? I would think that would conflict with the 1.1 in the base system, I thought that was the whole point of the openssl3 merge 14:09:44 hm i just told pip to upgrade urllib3, it did but then it complained about a conflict with botocore 14:10:01 fonks, pkg search says there's openssl30 and openssl31. 14:10:17 i think i can live without that. it's a python library for AWS 14:10:23 HA seems happy now 14:10:24 V_PauAmma_V, yeah, I'm eating my words now, I should have run a find on /usr/ports before I said anything. 14:11:37 hjf_, python related issues are entirely out of my depth. I avoid python for that reason :P pip likes to make package management on both the underlying system and the python env a hellscape 14:12:53 fonks: well in order of mess you have CPAN, PIP and NPM 14:12:56 cpan being the worst 14:13:37 npm's approach is nice because all packages are kept within each app's directory... but that makes each app liek 800MB of dependencies 14:14:06 yeah... no thanks. Storage may be cheap but that's a bit rediculous 14:14:52 reminds me a lot of JS dependency cycles. At least python doesn't have everyone and their dog making their own frameworks 14:16:19 i was developing an app on "nestjs" the other day, wondering what's really the point of using it 14:16:33 nestjs is a metaframework of several other JS libraries 14:16:50 it has very verbose dependency injection for no real benefit 14:17:45 as long as your app is small everything is good. then you get into circular dependencies and everything breaks. it's like it forces you not to have "cross dependencies" in your project 14:18:43 when i do simple JS APIs i KISS and just install express for http, jwt for auth, typeorm for DB, winston for logging, and typescript because javascript sucks 14:20:50 I'm a php guy. Processing is the server's job, imo. Clients are and should be treated as dumb document viewers as much as possible, in my mind. 14:21:36 JS, on top of being a mess, is not really something that belongs in a browser. But I digress. 14:22:31 i hate doing frontend but "browser is a dumb document viewer" doesn't really cut it anymore 14:23:16 for work i had this very specific requirement which was that, it's a call center with 1000s of people working. they have this "real time dashboard" that show what everyone is doing at every moment 14:23:26 kyua found a few failures on 1400092, but I also forgot it was running as root which can be iffy. I'll shoot those over to the mailing list once an unprivileged run finishes 14:23:30 (handling a call, waiting, training, lunch, break, etc) 14:23:49 hjf_, yes, that kind of application is understandable, that's why I said "as much as possible." :P 14:24:07 basically the dashboard had a timer that refresed it every few seconds... we "upgraded" it to a websocket to stream what everyone is doing 14:24:42 server is happy that it's not being hit with refresh, DB is even happier, and clients are happy because they can see things with at most 5s delay instead of 2 minutes lol 14:25:55 I just detest having entire application environments in a browser, it's really not good for performance or security to have that. Blinkenlights and status pages, understandable. Video streaming? Sure. But stuff like google docs, or the insane web version of Office? That's getting a bit iffy, in my mind. 14:26:13 yeah that's too much 14:26:33 but writing CRUDs in React is nice imo. 14:27:41 and having the same language betwen FE and BE has a big advantage: 1) TS Types can be shared across both projects (declare a DTO and use it in both. change the backend? the FE build breaks, you know you have a problem), and 2) validation logic is as easily shared between FE and BE 14:28:25 form validation in FE is a nice thing but often you have to repeat it for BE and that sucks. with a shared validation module, hnnggggghh 14:29:17 I recently had to do some stuff in ArcGIS, and was introduced to ArcGIS online... and promptly returned to ArcGIS Pro. Performance was garbage, had weird naming restrictions, and was implemented at least 90% in the frontend 14:29:51 so my browser was doing all of the (barely-threaded, because JS) heavy lifting. 14:29:54 my next project for work is to migrate the company's IA core 14:29:58 AI 14:30:15 the core is a python service copy pasted from examples from 10 years ago that's just a neural network 14:30:44 it's a pain to deploy it, it's an unmaintainable mess (because i hate python but had to maintain it), etc 14:30:59 trying to see if tensorflow.js can be used in the backend with the real C tensorflow 14:31:49 "When you import TensorFlow.js from this package, you get a module that's accelerated by the TensorFlow C binary and runs on the CPU. TensorFlow on the CPU uses hardware acceleration to optimize linear algebra computation." CRIES IN HAPPY 14:33:15 Hopefully that goes well o7. I'm not really versed in AI, I know vaguely how it works but never dealt with the nitty-gritty. Hopefully all that training data doesn't have to be converted or shuffled, if it's been running 10 years 14:33:31 what is the best way to get linux apps installed on freebsd? should I got with ubuntu based system? https://docs.freebsd.org/en/books/handbook/linuxemu/ 14:33:32 Title: Chapter 11. Linux Binary Compatibility | FreeBSD Documentation Portal 14:34:49 fonks: it's basically a huge matrix in a file. hopefully JS can import it 14:34:56 Beladona, honestly? I usually go through a process of (1) look for it in native packages/ports, (2) try to find source for the linux version, compile it natively, and run it natively, and (3) if all else fails try to run the linux binary with the linux emu. It should be built into the default kernel IIRC, so you should just be able to run the binary directly. 14:35:35 a problem i actually had with tensorflow is that (LOL) the VM i was assigned didn't have the CPU instructions to run the TF binaries. 14:35:46 this company squeezes every cent of the hardware and software they buy 14:36:09 whenever we have to deploy something new they keep asking if "we can make it compatible with SQL 2008 because we have some licenses we can reuse" 14:36:11 hjf_, yikes, I thought it was in some DB 14:37:48 Keras models (typically created via the Python API) may be saved in one of several formats. The "whole model" format can be converted to TensorFlow.js Layers format, which can be loaded directly into TensorFlow.js for inference or for further training. 14:37:52 yassss 14:37:57 i think we use keras in the python version 14:38:01 Beladona, you will probably find that most of your "linux software" exists as native packages. Try 'pkg install ' to learn more, or browse /usr/ports for names of packages (or install them from source in /usr/ports directly). Copying over linux binaries is sort of a last resort, but can and does work. 14:43:14 No new permissions-unrelated failures running kyua as a regular joe. Most seem to be related to dns limits, one utf8 locale failure, and a single lock-order failure in mixer. 14:50:40 fonks brave browser with no ads do not exist. having issues lib conflicts with obs-studio and kdenlive 14:54:05 Can you elaborate on the lib conflicts? I've not used Brave, but on first glance it appears to be open source, you may need to build from source to get a native version running 14:57:29 fonks https://imgur.com/4f1chnm.png 14:57:34 obs-studio 15:01:01 fonks kdenlive says it will remove postgres 15:12:04 Beladona, sorry for the delay, was filing a bug report. Have you been installing everything from pkg or from ports? Do you have a mixture of software going on? Pkg is really good about not nuking a system like that unless something is very wrong 15:16:57 fonks this is the vendor / lib issue 15:18:34 you can try to install it too and you will see. Install kdenlive, obs-studio, postgresql, neovim fonks 15:20:21 I need all those, what should I do? fonks 15:22:33 Please allow me time to respond. I'm doing other things in the background, too, you know. :) As far as installing all of those, I want to know first how you installed those. 15:32:12 fonks sure 15:32:13 # chroot /compat/ubuntu /bin/bash 15:32:13 chroot: /bin/bash: No such file or directory 15:32:35 fonks for installing, just use pkg 15:37:59 what to do of this error? 15:43:03 Beladona, what are you doing exactly? the freebsd linux compatability works like wine in a sense, you load the linux binaries and the kernel's linux compat shuffles around the syscalls to match freebsd calls. You don't need a chroot of a linux environment and that in fact will not work 15:44:18 please see https://docs.freebsd.org/en/books/handbook/linuxemu/ 15:44:19 Title: Chapter 11. Linux Binary Compatibility | FreeBSD Documentation Portal 15:44:37 you don't need to, and should not, install an entire linux system as a subtree 15:52:14 fonks I already installed ubuntu via `debootstrap jammy /compat/ubuntu` 15:52:42 right, which you can do, but what is your goal? 15:52:54 fonks I need calmness and peace of ubuntu's package manager who can install brave, obs-studio, kdenlive and other linux apps for me. 15:53:13 fonks how can I run `apt install brave` now? 15:53:45 By running ubuntu? I'm not sure why you're trying to essentially run linux but with the freebsd kernel 15:54:40 You can install Brave natively by building from source, I should mention, in the freebsd environment with the freebsd kernel 15:54:42 I have freebsd as base os, with that I need mentioned apps. those create problem on freebsd. so I installed ubuntu on it. Those apps are big and simple binaries will have problem. as said I need peace of mind for ubuntu's package maanger to auto manage dependancies 15:54:46 fonks how can I run `apt install brave` now? 15:59:57 * Beladona waits for fonks 16:01:56 belatedly, fonks, I've had similar lua dependency issues. For example, you can't have mpv and minetest packages installed at the same time. 16:02:07 You also can't have KDE or Mumble installed at the same time, last time I tried to install KDE. 16:02:48 Beladona, I don't think that's what the linux chroot system is for. I've only ever used it to build linux libraries for linux binaries that needed them. If you're trying to use apt, your best bet is to use ubuntu, either in VM or on the bare metal. 16:03:46 Like I said before, the order of preference from most to least is (1) pkg, (2) /usr/ports, (3) source package compiled natively, (4) source compiled for linux, (5) precompiled linux binary 16:05:54 xtile, lua dependencies are strange. I've noticed that before with minetest. I wouldn't think kdenlive would want to obliterate postgres though, unless there's some other shenanigans going on 16:06:16 fonks no.. see https://docs.freebsd.org/en/books/handbook/linuxemu/#linuxemu-debootstrap 16:06:18 Title: Chapter 11. Linux Binary Compatibility | FreeBSD Documentation Portal 16:06:38 What a horrible idea. 16:07:20 jkc which one? 16:07:31 Beladona: What you're trying to do. 16:08:52 jkc well then how to make the installation of kdenlive, obs-studio, postgresql, neovim simple? 16:11:13 Beladona, what FreeBSD version are you running? on 14-CURRENT all of those will install without conflict from pkg and ports 16:11:18 13.2 16:11:47 Which version of postgres do you want? 16:12:18 Because on 13.2, pkg install kdenlive obs-studio postgresql15-server neovim works just fine. 16:13:30 jkc it doesnt 16:13:40 https://imgur.com/4f1chnm.png 16:15:29 Beladona, what else have you done with this system? It sounds like package management has been pretty badly broken by something, and from what you've said so far it's not clear what 16:15:49 pkg install kdenlive obs-studio postgresql13-server neovim 16:15:50 fonks the snap clearly says it is a bad dependancy conflict 16:16:07 The incompatibility is in the version of postgres you're trying to install. 16:16:14 jkc I have a serious database v15.3... why install 13? 16:16:44 the pg db is already running 16:17:09 That's your problem. The version if pgsql you installed is what's causing the conflict. 16:17:31 Just use "vi". Fixed. :) 16:17:37 well why?.. the version of neovim is also causing conflict with kdenlive or whatever 16:17:38 * unixman_home ducks and runs 16:18:11 jkc if those packages are part of ports, then why conflict? 16:18:51 Beladona: I just told you the actual conflict. You can also switch your pkg source from quarterly to latest and pgsql 15 works just fine, along with the rest. 16:22:05 Beladona, conflicts come from how the packages are built. The default configuration will inevitably not work in certain combinations or circumstances. For that you can file bugs and follow -latest, as jkc said, or build from /usr/ports with a custom configuration. 16:23:23 or you can forgo package management entirely, just drop binaries everywhere, and cross your fingers 16:24:13 its already latest in /etc/pkg/FreeBSD.conf as url: "pkg+http://pkg.FreeBSD.org/${ABI}/latest", 16:25:23 jkc https://termbin.com/4cus 16:25:36 fonks still its too much time consuming and frustrating 16:34:40 jkc fonks what you said seems correct but apparently not working. How can I change that? 16:47:29 what are you referring to, exactly? 16:48:29 ok, lets do one by one. how to install obs-studio fonks jkc ? 16:48:48 * meena mumbles something about poudriere 17:00:05 this is taking a lot time as you can see. there is not straight fix. Or am I missing something? 17:09:05 fonks jkc mentioning you again and again? Are you on this or I should not? 17:46:34 Beladona, since IRC is asynchronous people may or may not be monitoring it at any given point in time. Even if they are shown as "online". I don't have answers for you, but out of 600+ connected people someone else other than fonks and jck might ... eventually. 17:51:28 unixman_home ok. waiting for the remaining 637 people then 17:51:47 :D 17:58:47 Glad to see the "I want volunteers to remain available 24/7 to answer questions for me" is still going strong. 18:16:26 debdrup or maybe we can change the subject of IRC chat to "please do not disturb, I will email you when free" 18:21:04 Is there a way for me to ... somehow wipe anything outside of GELI content in a partition? For some wacky reason I have a system that's finding a phantom pool across two partitions, where those partitions are actually encrypted by GELI, with my actual pool therein. 18:23:44 mason, The best and only tool I have found for that so far is wipefs which does not seem available on FreeBSD. 18:24:05 https://bpa.st/KCAAW 18:24:06 Title: View paste KCAAW 18:25:08 rwp: So, digging more I see ada0p3 showing up in "geom list" twice as a provider, once with Name: gpt/tank0 (desired) and once with 1. Name: gptid/7d9cbbbf-ad51-11ed-b75e-94c691d5946f (source of the phantom pool) 18:25:50 I can probably just wipe the partitions by hand and rebuild, but I'm wondering if there's a more elegant way. 18:26:36 Possibly unrelated, this box came to my attention as it froze during a "freebsd-update" last night. 18:26:52 * rwp is looking carefully at your paste... 18:27:10 but, from rescue media, attaching geli, importing the real pool by id, and scrubbing showed no errors 18:27:34 rwp: If you have ideas I'll try them. Otherwise, I guess I'll wipe each half in turn and rebuild. 18:27:37 As a by-the-by I have been dealing with my own system problems of late and have been deep into this on one of my systems too. Everything is failing all around me. 18:27:47 rwp: Same sort of error? 18:29:34 rwp: Do you suspect an idea is percolating? If so I'll hold off on the wipes as that will likely nuke the opportunity for more exploration. 18:30:22 And there's no rush, so I'll go do cooking dailies on my AzerothCore server and keep this open to see if there are any ideas in the meantime. 18:30:28 My problem is that I don't know exactly what problem I am experiencing. But I am not seeing a phantom signature problem as you are seeing. 18:30:47 How would you characterize what's happening to your system(s)? 18:30:57 Also, I'll take that as "okay, wipe away" :P 18:31:42 My problem is related to endless drive resets between HGST Deskstar NAS drives and the controller in a 6 drive raidz2 pool. Which all started happening mostly all at once across several of the drives. 18:31:59 Ew. I don't want to trade problems. =cough= 18:32:49 rwp: Storms? Power surge? Inductive voltage spike? Can you swap out the controller/HBA/whatever to rule out that flaking out? 18:33:16 I can make the story worse. This is an array that was too big to back up. 18:33:27 Yee. Glad it's on ZFS then. 18:34:04 If you can, I'd suspect the HBA first and try to rule that out. Worst case, now you have a spare HBA. 18:34:54 But I really only have about 6TB of data on it, and 5TB of that is definitely on the previous smaller NAS pool okay. But there are some recently acquired audio books and some other things on the new difference that would annoy me to lose. 18:34:54 For my part, I'm 50G into wiping 4.6T, so, whee! 18:35:29 And I'll have to do it again once I've resilvered the new ........ I can just grab the beginning and end of the partition I bet. 18:36:34 I have three Dell surplus LSI HBA SAS/SATA adaptors. Have swapped them around. Have swapped pretty much everything. 18:37:01 Are all the drives same vintage/model? 18:37:05 So then decided to swap motherboards. Moved the drives into a different system. The problem follows the drives. Which tells me it is nothing about the system hardware. The problem is definitely the drives. 18:38:00 That completely sucks. Can you start swapping the drives out? If you do, I'd think about varying the make/model to avoid systemic failure. 18:38:14 Recommendation that seemed crazy to me not that long ago: look at used drives. 18:38:15 Yes. Unfortunately. 6x HGST HDN726060ALE610 6TB SATA drives. Which is always better for a SOHO type of setup to have decoupled drives from different places to make sure failure modes are not similar. But... 18:38:45 As in, if you can get some reliability out of used drives, that cuts back on the existential threat. 18:39:19 That's what I am doing right now! I bought 2x used SAS drives from a vendor. And 2x from a different vendor. And two of those arrived and were BRAND NEW, well, 12 and 18 hours on them respectively. Woot! Won the lottery on those two. 18:39:43 Nice, wow. So, hopefully you start seeing the problem disappear then. 18:39:55 The other two were 30k hours on them as I expected. And have two more in the order pipeline to arrive probably Tuesday. 18:40:23 And now am in the process of copying the data off the previous SATA drives onto the incoming SAS drives. And learning some things as I go here. 18:40:28 nice 18:40:55 For one... If I try to copy from two of the pesky SATA drives at the same time (using ddrescue) then I get endless drive resets and drive errors and it just blows chunks! 18:41:08 Yeah, just do one at a time. 18:41:27 rwp: Oh, ddrescue... Is it not better to let zfs drive the resilver? 18:41:28 But if I do one disk at a time then I avoid all disk errors. I see softreset in the kernel log. But ddrescue does not report any read errors. 18:42:11 In order for zfs zpool to resilver or scrub or replace one must have an array online. Mine has degraded, suspended, and faulted. 18:42:50 Things went from bad to worse pretty quick. Can't get enough "read" out of the drives to assemble an array. And in the current state I don't want to try. 18:43:11 Instead I will make a complete copy of each drive off of the pesky troublesome drives one by one onto the incoming replacement drives one by one. 18:43:34 Then the replacement drives can be worked with to assemble the zfs pool. And if I screw something up then I still have the original data in the original state to work with. 18:44:17 ugh 18:44:19 kk 18:44:25 A lot of work but a solid plan. 18:44:43 For my part, I'm going to potentially save hours here with a little seek= magic to dd. 18:46:08 got 100M off the front, will do roughly the same off the back 18:46:54 I am glad I can make other people's day a little happier because they can go, "Whew! At least I am not that guy!" :-) 18:48:33 haha 18:48:43 mason kane? 18:48:45 I think there's a demotivational poster about that. 18:48:54 Cane sugar? 18:49:21 https://citadel.fandom.com/wiki/Mason_Kane 18:49:23 Title: Mason Kane | Citadel Wiki | Fandom 18:50:08 Is it easy and advisable to upgrade from 13.2 to 14 ? 18:50:23 Beladona: There's also a character Mason Verger from Thomas Harris' Lambs series. BTW, your nick is missing a couple consonants. 18:50:37 mason intentional 18:52:14 Beladona, Perhaps the old saying "if you have to ask then no you shouldn't" applies? But instead one might ask for what reason would you desire to do so while it is still in development? 18:52:36 rwp am. ok typing: 18:53:00 tried to install ubuntu based system? https://docs.freebsd.org/en/books/handbook/linuxemu/ 18:53:02 Title: Chapter 11. Linux Binary Compatibility | FreeBSD Documentation Portal 18:53:03 because: 18:53:23 brave browser with no ads do not exist. having issues lib conflicts with obs-studio and kdenlive 18:53:34 https://imgur.com/4f1chnm.png 18:53:37 I had a heck of a time with debootstrap on Linuxulator a while back. Might try it again. 18:53:56 kdenlive says it will remove postgres 18:54:29 mason how to run `apt install brave` after doing `debootstrap jammy /compat/ubuntu` 18:54:47 Beladona: Did their debootstrap get all the way to completion? 18:55:17 Beladona: Pretty sure you'd just chroot in there if it finished and have you a coherent system, and then use apt or whatever as though it were an actual Ubuntu system. 18:55:29 I just did pkg install debootstrap and debootstrap jammy /compat/ubuntu in https://docs.freebsd.org/en/books/handbook/linuxemu/#linuxemu-debootstrap 18:55:30 Title: Chapter 11. Linux Binary Compatibility | FreeBSD Documentation Portal 18:55:41 And then are you chrooting in? 18:56:10 chroot /compat/ubuntu /bin/bash 18:56:11 chroot: /bin/bash: No such file or directory 18:56:16 Beladona, What is that upgrading from and to? I haven't seen similar problem on my system so far. I am 13.2-RELEASE at the moment. And the quarterly ports neovim is neovim-0.8.3 not 0.9.1 as on your system so I assume you are on the dailies? 18:56:26 Beladona: Is /bin/bash there? What's in /compat/ubuntu/bin? 18:57:01 mason No such file or directory for both ls 18:57:30 Beladona: from the outer system, please pastbin: ls /compat/ubuntu 18:57:34 rwp I am on latest 18:57:40 pastebin* 18:57:40 I am going to back away because if this is in linuxator then I know nothing. And I my drive number 2 just finished copying after 13h21m runtime and I need to set up drive 3 to start copying. 18:57:43 rwp I am on latest. Not quarterly 18:57:58 rwp: Nice, may it proceed placidly and without excitement. 18:58:13 # ls /compat/ubuntu/ 18:58:14 debootstrap/ var/ 18:59:13 Beladona: That suggests you might have followed the instructions incorrectly, or that the instructions were incorrect. 18:59:32 what should be the steps? 18:59:55 Beladona: If you debootstrap into /compat/ubuntu then you should see the normal root-of-filesystem things in /compat/ubuntu. You seem to have stuck it all down a level in debootstrap maybe. Can you show us ls /compat/ubuntu/debootstrap? 19:00:25 debootstrap.log debpaths deburis 19:01:02 Beladona: That isn't the expected root goop either. Not sure how you can the debootstrap, but either you pointed it to the wrong place or it broke, which is the option I observed last time I tried. 19:01:10 s/can/ran/ 19:01:20 ok doing again then 19:02:40 pkg install debootstrap, debootstrap jammy /compat/ubuntu 19:02:54 mason do I need to set up mounts in /etc/fstab. 19:03:22 Beladona: The world inside /compat/ubuntu should be independent of the outer system. 19:03:40 ok but this says about fstab https://docs.freebsd.org/en/books/handbook/linuxemu/#linuxemu-debootstrap 19:03:41 Title: Chapter 11. Linux Binary Compatibility | FreeBSD Documentation Portal 19:03:54 ok anyway, what to do after `debootstrap jammy /compat/ubuntu` 19:04:27 mason oh, this time it worked 19:04:43 Beladona: It helps when you know what's going on under the hood. :P 19:04:47 Just kidding. 19:05:11 mason https://pastebin.mozilla.org/J0RPaED3/raw 19:06:32 Beladona: Ah, not sure what you want to do to get valid /dev, /sys, and /proc inside there but you'll need those. The guide you followed should address this. Might be outer-system fstab in that case. 19:07:25 mason ok.. why I get permission denited? https://pastebin.mozilla.org/J0RPaED3/raw 19:08:06 Beladona: Read my last line. You need functional mounts as noted. 19:08:15 The /dev/null it wants needs to already exist. 19:08:31 so need to change /etc/fstab in freebsd? 19:09:14 Beladona: You should see what the guide you use recommends to set up /proc, /sys, and /dev inside the compat environment. 19:11:58 mason https://pastebin.mozilla.org/hyLxs4kK/raw 19:14:08 am fixed. checking 19:17:27 Beladona: Hm, is there no Linux-specific devfs? That's the only thing that'd worry me. 19:22:49 mason I do not understand. I just pasted what was in doc and it worked 19:23:00 but I do not see any much packages. /etc/apt/sources.list is also not present 19:23:21 Beladona: /compat/ubuntu/etc/apt/sources.list? 19:23:56 If there's nothing there or in sources.list.d you'll want to address that, as you won't have any sources of packages until that exists. 19:24:18 Good luck with it, and thanks for the inspiration - I'll give it a try again soon, although with Debian rather than Ubuntu. 19:24:30 its there. but not seen in side the chroot 19:24:34 Back to the cellar to reboot my newly-resurrected system. 19:24:37 just 'main' deb added there. 19:24:56 Beladona: Unclear how it can be there but not from within the chroot. 19:25:57 mason https://imgur.com/ILNw6te.png 19:26:37 when i do "zfs list" i see "zroot/ROOT/13.2-RELEASE_2023-06-21_063639" ... does freebsd create that when updating? 19:26:59 markmcb: Yeah, it makes snapshots now on freebsd-update 19:27:03 Useful. 19:27:22 that's a nice feature i didn't know about 19:27:24 Beladona: That looks right. Note that you said "/etc/opt" in the left side. 19:28:44 mason inside chroot its /etc/opt 19:29:04 Beladona: Inside the chroot it's definitely not /etc/opt. 19:29:13 bbiab 19:29:46 mason sure https://pastebin.mozilla.org/8j6H05Bz/raw 19:30:28 markmcb: it's from the new feature added to freebsd-update, to create boot environments when upgrading; you can access old boot environments via the loader 19:31:22 that's so great :) 19:32:38 today's a big day. after a month of trial, i migrated all my core server tasks to freebsd from my linux server. count me amongst the believers, lol 19:41:56 markmcb, Run "bectl list" and then go look at https://wiki.freebsd.org/BootEnvironments because Boot Environments ROCK! :-) 19:41:57 Title: BootEnvironments - FreeBSD Wiki 19:43:02 boot environments are basically impossible to live without, once you've started using them. 19:43:10 markmcb, Note that beadm is the original tool in ports and bectl is the newer tool in base and both are basically the same within limits of same-ness. See https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/howto-freebsd-zfs-madness.31662/ for history. 19:43:11 Title: HOWTO: FreeBSD ZFS Madness | The FreeBSD Forums 19:43:26 i feel like each week i find a new amazing thing. thanks for highlighting this! 19:44:06 We are all on the journey of discover together. :-) 19:44:12 beadm (and boot environments) originate in OpenSolaris 19:44:36 the beadm tool in ports is a reimplementation of beadm in OpenSolaris 19:46:02 mason it was terrible way to run obs via ubuntu in freebsd. no audio, screen etc. I should have fixed the freebsd compatibility issue instead 19:46:10 I think I should upgrade to v14 19:46:57 It's not -RELEASE yet. 19:47:43 FreeBSD 14.0-CURRENT 19:48:26 I'm not sure that's a good idea. 19:52:01 debdrup whats your version? 19:54:01 am I the only one who can't install obs-studio with neovim and postgres? 20:20:58 https://pastebin.mozilla.org/rtPSEKu8 - does it make any sense that `fg` in /bin/sh accepts PIDs but not actual job IDs? that's contrary to what the man page says and also to what bash/tcsh do 20:20:59 Title: Mozilla Community Pastebin/rtPSEKu8 (Bash) 20:21:08 Beladona: what's the conflict? 20:21:48 luke8086: %job 20:23:00 meena: that works, interesting. thanks! 20:24:31 it's weird that it's not documented, like it's supposed to be very common folk knowledge 20:26:14 luke8086: it looks like csh(1) documents it, even tho sh(1) doesn't, but it's the same syntax abs behaviour 20:29:31