00:00:52 <markmcb> on the flip side, there's a few man pages that get into some scenario-based examples, e.g. geli(8), but don't quite go far enough on the full scenario (which would probably be too much for a man page)
00:09:04 <meena> the thing with wikis is that they are everything for everyone, and so it ends up very cluttered and often outdated, because it might have been used only for prototyping
00:11:05 <markmcb> meena, agreed. i could imagine a curated, limited scope wiki. or maybe not even a wiki, but something that's a little more fluid and less formal.
00:16:26 <meena> markmcb: if something is worthy of a docs chapter, we try to put it there, but i agree that easily findable / searchable community docs that are less formal and more goal driven would be very beneficial
00:18:03 <meena> (and i also have no idea how to achieve that)
00:21:59 <markmcb> totally. sesutil is a great example. not worthy of a chapter, but it's a useful quick mention, and exposes a great simple tool that someone might find really handy. it's also a good way to point people in a direction and dispell bad info. i saw in a forum people talking about no equivalent to hdparm's secure erase in linux. i was really disappointed. then i found camcontrol secuity on my own by
00:22:00 <markmcb> chance while looking for something else.
00:25:00 <markmcb> maybe i'll hack on a prototype doc and get feedback. i took a bunch of notes when i was figuring things out.
00:28:41 <meena> markmcb: that's fantastic. i hope you corrected that forum post!
00:40:51 * grahamperrin recently discovered confctl(1), <https://man.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?query=confctl&sektion=1&manpath=freebsd-ports>
00:40:53 <VimDiesel> Title: confctl(1)
00:43:56 <grahamperrin> Ah, the in-page link to sysctl(8) does not work because the URL is ports-specific
00:44:43 <meena> what config files look like that?
00:52:22 <grahamperrin> % confctl -a /usr/local/etc/pkg/repos/FreeBSD.conf
00:52:22 <grahamperrin> FreeBSD:.url:="pkg+http://pkg0.fra.freebsd.org/${ABI}/latest",
00:52:22 <grahamperrin> FreeBSD:.priority:=4
00:52:22 <grahamperrin> %
00:52:54 <grahamperrin> confctl -a /boot/loader.conf
00:53:01 <grahamperrin> confctl -a /etc/sysctl.conf
00:53:43 <grahamperrin> … and so on.
00:54:46 <kevans> https://github.com/trasz/confctl/commit/e84c85171a08fe4f6338809dd08d7cadc539522a i feel like this overcomplicated the problem
00:54:47 <VimDiesel> Title: Use asprintf(3) in a Linux-compatible way. · trasz/confctl@e84c851 · GitHub
00:55:31 <kevans> pretty sure glibc's asprintf probably just doesn't modify `*newprefix`, so really probably just needed to initialize it to NULL in confctl.c
00:57:24 <kevans> i'd be surprised if it trashes the pointer on failure
00:59:26 <meena> kevans: maybe it did back then?
01:19:58 <vhns> Does the FreeBSD installer not have a timeout configured for whenever it tries to fetch files from one of the mirrors? I think the ftp://ftp2.br.FreeBSD.org/FreeBSD/ is down/not working, so I've been stuck on this screen for a while now: https://upload.lurkmore.com/z/OjjvNSYL.png
01:25:20 <vhns> I cancelled the install and switched to the default/first mirror in the list and it's working fine now.
04:15:34 <markmcb> i noticed the default /etc/pkg/FreeBSD.conf shows pkg+http (vs. pkg+https). Any reason it doesn't default to a more secure transport? i didn't see any rationale in pkg.conf(5)
04:16:58 <RhodiumToad> may have been related to the historical lack of certificate management in base
04:17:23 <RhodiumToad> package signatures are checked regardless, I believe
04:20:30 <kevans> yeah, the default repo's all signed
04:20:48 <kevans> there's been some discussion about switching it to https
04:21:25 <kevans> oh, he actually submitted a review for it, even: https://reviews.freebsd.org/D40473
04:21:26 <VimDiesel> Title: ⚙ D40473 pkg: use https by default
04:22:07 <markmcb> nice, thanks
07:45:26 <sozuba> Based on this -> https://www.gnu.org/software/grub/manual/legacy/FreeBSD.html Grub can launch freebsd kernel, but not advised.and since grub can decrypt luks1, with limited luks2 support, is there any restritions for using a luks encrypted boot partition on freebsd?
07:45:27 <VimDiesel> Title: FreeBSD - GNU GRUB Manual 0.97
08:00:01 <tsoome> sozuba if it is what you need and it does work, no problem. Otherwise, I'd suggest to use native tools - just because the native tools have better support.
08:00:41 <meena> sozuba: We have no LUKS in FreeBSD. maybe in ports, but not in Base
08:01:15 <meena> https://www.freshports.org/devel/libluksde/
08:01:16 <VimDiesel> Title: FreshPorts -- devel/libluksde: Library and tools to access LUKS Disk Encryption encrypted volumes
08:03:17 <sozuba> tsoome: i would love to use native tool, but due to my previous PR (271938) of excessive heating, I am not able to use Freebsd freeley yet. So I have planned to dual boot, with the usual encrypted setup i have for linux and using the same for freebsd. This way i can continue my work and stuff,while also trying towork on the PR.
08:03:39 <meena> https://docs.freebsd.org/en/books/handbook/disks/#disks-encrypting
08:03:40 <VimDiesel> Title: Chapter 19. Storage | FreeBSD Documentation Portal
08:04:08 <meena> sozuba: grub uses chain boot loading, so this should just work
08:04:21 <sozuba> meena: thanks for the link. Best way is to find a middle ground, so i can use grub to boot the loader and not freebsd kernel.
08:04:34 <sozuba> meena: yup chainboot is what i was thinking
08:04:44 <sozuba> thank you very much
08:05:42 <tsoome> dual boot is perfectly good use case. and yes, in general, we do suggest chain loading (first boot loader starting other boot loader) and less direct loading.
08:07:21 <tsoome> problem with using grub to load and start fbsd kernel directly is about corner cases - if you need to load some specific module with kernel, some configuration details etc.
08:10:24 <sozuba> yup, understood. I mostlikely will use freebsd loader to boot freebsd kernel, whil using grub to chainload freebsd loader
08:10:42 <sozuba> thanks tsoome and meena for your imputs ad advise :)
08:11:18 <tsoome> btw, is this machine doing BIOS boot or UEFI boot?
08:11:51 <sozuba> i 100 GB enough for freebsd parition thatmight include src ports, etc for debugging and may be development?
08:12:07 <sozuba> i don;tplan to use freebsd for anything else until this is sorted
08:12:10 <tsoome> yes, 100G should be good.
08:12:19 <sozuba> tsoome:  UEFI
08:13:19 <tsoome> aha, ok, I haven't tested chainloading loader.efi from grub, so it would be interesting to hear back how it is behaving;)
08:15:34 <sozuba> Will definitely post back results and experience once done
10:12:03 <parv> I am having a real bad time with installworld step (14-CURRENT) when trying to update from 1cebc9298cf to b98fbf3781 (or from 9fbeeb6e3831 tofacc213643f8  or dfa1982352ee on a different host).  The error is of "missing cc" during "installworld. Some log from the first attempt: https://termbin.com/f2eh
10:19:31 <parv> /etc/{make,src}*conf: https://termbin.com/7j8kb
10:27:02 <parv> https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=269366#c1 hints at change in source or build option but that did not happen
10:27:03 <VimDiesel> Title: 269366 – installworld calls cc breaking nanobsd build
10:29:42 <parv> ... just noticed "ERROR-tried-to-rebuild-during-make-install" in there; searching on that
10:45:32 <parv> Log of "installworld" failure on another host from 9fbeeb6e3831 to dfa1982352ee : https://termbin.com/74je ; /etc/{src,make}*conf: https://termbin.com/c8ll
11:15:52 <yuripv> what about buildworld, did it finish successfully?
11:16:12 <parv> Yes, I did not see any error messages.
11:16:35 <parv> buildworld && kernel completed without issues
11:17:45 <parv> (also emailed -current@ list)
11:19:04 <yuripv> it says something about ccache, misconfiguration?
11:20:28 <martinrame> Hi, I created a Bhyve VM (Ubuntu guest) using vm bhyve. The machine has grub as default boot loader, but it doesn't boot after installing, to boot it I must type a series of commands (set prefix..., set root.., insmod ..., normal) to let if boot. Can anyone help me saving those commands to let grub boot automatically?
11:22:33 <parv> yuripv, Hmm; ok will try soon without ccache
11:24:26 <parv> yuripv, Did you imply the "sh: cc: not found" message?
11:38:53 <parv> Need to leave for now ...
14:33:19 <adilix> hi all
14:33:26 <CmdLnKid> yo
16:20:19 <thedaemon> 'lo party people
19:44:11 <sozuba> Booted up the memdisk, wanted to do a manual install, do "gdisk destroy ada0", i get device busy. Mount doesn't show ada0 being mounted.what ami missingor doing wrong?
19:45:15 <RhodiumToad> gdisk? I see no such command
19:45:28 <sozuba> gpart*2~ sorry habbit
19:45:52 <sozuba> "gpart destroy ada0"
19:45:52 <RhodiumToad> you're trying to wipe the partitioning on ada0?
19:45:59 <sozuba> yes
19:46:12 <sozuba> clean whipe the device
19:46:15 <RhodiumToad> what does  geom -t  show
19:46:24 <sozuba> but for now just using gpart without dd
19:47:18 <sozuba> https://termbin.com/csjp
19:48:59 <RhodiumToad> hm, that doesn't look like it should report as being busy
19:49:16 <sozuba> This is Freebsd 14-CURRENT
19:49:26 <sozuba> jfyi
19:49:38 <RhodiumToad> oh I know, destroy only works without -f if all the partitions are deleted first
19:50:08 <RhodiumToad> so  gpart delete -i4 ada0  and so on down to -i1
19:50:28 <sozuba> ah okay. Got it, Thanks :)
19:50:45 <meena> we need an -rf here, for extra danger
19:51:04 <RhodiumToad> just -f is dangerous enough :-)
19:51:15 <RhodiumToad> sorry it's -F
19:51:17 <sozuba> -rf is recursive force? :D
19:51:27 <RhodiumToad> (-f is already claimed for -f flags)
19:51:34 <sozuba> okay
19:52:32 <RhodiumToad> (it's possible to have recursive partition tables but most combinations require a sysctl to enable)
19:52:46 <sozuba> worked,now i can peacefully test/playaround
19:52:58 <sozuba> okay
19:53:33 <RhodiumToad> in particular you can't have a gpt table anywhere other than directly on a physical disk without turning on an option for it
19:53:50 <RhodiumToad> (an option I added, because I wanted to do some VM stuff)
19:55:34 <sozuba> honestly,my recursive was a rhetorical question, cause meena said -rf
19:56:02 <sozuba> but now i am curious."Recursive partition table"? sounds cool
19:56:33 <sozuba> is it like haveing a partition table inside partition table, like having lvm on luks on gpt?
19:57:31 <RhodiumToad> well in my case what I wanted was to use a raw gpt partition as a VM backing volume, and obviously installing the VM would put a partition table on that volume
19:57:32 <RhodiumToad> and I wanted to get at the partitions from the host
19:58:42 <RhodiumToad> hence the kern.geom.part.gpt.allow_nesting (off by default)
19:59:40 <RhodiumToad> and likewise kern.geom.part.allow_nesting for other partition schemes
20:00:16 <RhodiumToad> don't turn them on unless you have a similar use-case to mine :-)
20:00:52 <sozuba> got it.This is interesteing. But i amnot going to try it.I alreayd have my plate full, don;t want more compications :)
20:00:56 <sozuba> thanks RhodiumToad
20:04:09 <sozuba> following https://wiki.freebsd.org/RootOnZFS/GPTZFSBoot for manual partition. Is it madatory for freebsd-zfs root partition to have disk0 as the label? This is the first time i amusing zfs
20:04:10 <VimDiesel> Title: RootOnZFS/GPTZFSBoot - FreeBSD Wiki
20:04:46 <RhodiumToad> no.
20:04:56 <sozuba> cool, thanks :)
20:05:02 <RhodiumToad> there's some merit in not putting labels on zfs partitions
20:05:45 <sozuba> why so?
20:06:05 <sozuba> btw, i just found this -> https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/labeling-partitions-done-right-on-modern-computers.69250/ and i amgoing to check it out
20:06:06 <VimDiesel> Title: Labeling partitions done right on modern computers. | The FreeBSD Forums
20:06:09 <RhodiumToad> (I normally think labels are a good idea since they're a form pf metadata easily visible to non-freebsd tools, but for zfs the drawbacks may outweigh that)
20:06:40 <sozuba> 'drawbacks', now my mind is focused onto your next words
20:08:52 <RhodiumToad> so that article tries to draw a distinction between gpt labels and geom labels. this is incorrect
20:09:14 <sozuba> oh
20:09:15 <RhodiumToad> the LABEL geom class is responsible for both.
20:09:16 <sozuba> okay
20:09:32 <RhodiumToad> LABEL recognizes two types of labels
20:09:49 <sozuba> in liux i mostly dealt with uuid for fstab
20:10:08 <RhodiumToad> explicit labels, created by glabel label, which live at the end of a provider (reducing its size) which show up in /dev/label
20:11:27 <RhodiumToad> and implicit labels, which are obtained by examining the content of a provider. This govers GPT labels (found from the GPT partition table), filesystem labels (found by looking for "volume label" metadata in UFS, FAT etc. filesystems), and so on
20:12:12 <RhodiumToad> (also disk serial number labels, GPT uuid labels, etc.)
20:12:42 <RhodiumToad> so the problem with zfs is this:
20:13:36 <RhodiumToad> zfs recognizes disks by content, not by name. it doesn't care what name you used when adding a disk to a vdev or whatever.
20:15:15 <RhodiumToad> and that means it doesn't see any reason not to attach the disk using the label rather than the partition name; it'll do whichever one it tries first
20:15:32 <meena> RhodiumToad: you looking at https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=271989 ?
20:15:34 <VimDiesel> Title: 271989 – zfs root mount error 6 after upgrade from 11.1-release to 13.2-release
20:15:38 <RhodiumToad> no
20:17:23 <RhodiumToad> though with that bug, note that zfs doesn't as far as I know limit itself to searching in freebsd-zfs partitions
20:17:36 <RhodiumToad> it'll find zfs metadata _anywhere_
20:19:23 <sozuba> tocontinue what you were saying, if we have labels, it will try that first?
20:20:49 <sozuba> so in relation to what meena shared, having labels lying around (example the nug meena shared), can cause boot issues?
20:21:11 <sozuba> or be adverse,even if noissues
20:22:09 <RhodiumToad> it usually won't try the label first
20:22:27 <sozuba> also, a follow up question, is it better to not have labels at all on any type of fs / partition? like on fat32 / efi?
20:22:27 <RhodiumToad> but sometimes it might, which is confusing
20:22:36 <sozuba> understood
20:22:42 <RhodiumToad> no, it's only really zfs that is a problem here
20:22:54 <sozuba> got it. I'll keep that in mind.
20:23:15 <RhodiumToad> for other filesystems you can use a gpt label, a filesystem label or both
20:23:37 <RhodiumToad> the other cases that don't like gpt labels are gmirror and gstripe
20:24:11 <sozuba> Honestly, interactig with you, i learn a lot. This is some good knowledge that comes mostly through experience. Thank you for Sharing, I really appriciate it. And thanks meena :)
20:24:48 <sozuba> i only ever used mirror and stripe once.and had no use case, but i might going forward
20:24:54 * meena is always here for you to ruin your day with bugs she found in #freebsd-bugs
20:24:57 <sozuba> a few month down the line
20:25:31 <meena> but i also often share exciting commits!
20:26:06 <sozuba> so this looks okay then? gpart add -a 1m -s 100G -t freebsd-zfs ada0
20:26:50 <sozuba> meena: haha, good for you and for the community. Would be great if you could add somecommits for the PR i rasied :P :D
20:27:43 <meena> I don't have a commit bit, and i am generally not allowed near hardware, for danger of it exploding
20:28:19 <sozuba> na, hardware willbe fine. You seem nice :)
20:29:25 <RhodiumToad> sozuba: that command looks reasonable to me
20:29:49 <meena> exciting commit https://freshbsd.org/freebsd/src/commit/bcf9147144f3499976a623f92712ecd0aca71912
20:29:50 <VimDiesel> Title: FreeBSD / src / bcf9147 / EC2: Default to "uefi-preferred" boot mode - FreshBSD
20:29:52 <RhodiumToad> 1m is perhaps more strict an alignment than is really necessary, but not a problem
20:30:14 <sozuba> thanks, i laready entered :-p and therewa no explosion, so good :)
20:30:42 <meena> fixes https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=264697
20:30:45 <VimDiesel> Title: 264697 – FreeBSD 13 AWS AMI can not use free tier because t2 instance cannot use UEFI boot
20:31:16 <meena> So, soon ™ we can use freebsd for free on aws!
20:31:31 <Erhard> You can use it on Oracle Cloud free tier now.
20:31:44 <Erhard> x86 and Arch64
20:31:53 <Erhard> Aarch64 even
20:32:02 <Rayyan> free??
20:32:06 <meena> ooohhb
20:32:07 <Erhard> Absolutelyf free
20:32:12 <Rayyan> how does that work :P
20:32:19 <Erhard> I have three VPSes on Oracle free
20:32:40 <meena> nice, all you have to do is sign in blood here: _________
20:32:46 <Erhard> two are single core amd64 and the other is a 4 core Ampere with 24Gigs of ram
20:33:00 <meena> how is that free??
20:33:04 <Erhard> Been running for two years now.
20:33:04 <Rayyan> sounds slightly dodgy
20:33:09 <Rayyan> what's on it for them
20:33:12 <Erhard> It's part of their free tier.
20:33:20 <Erhard> Get people used to ORacle cloud.
20:33:26 <Erhard> So they are mor elikely to deploy there.
20:33:34 <Erhard> Same reason AWS does it.
20:33:42 <meena> I need to get to testing it
20:33:56 <Erhard> I use them for Wireguard servers for road warrior vpns.
20:34:05 <Erhard> I use one as an additional name server.
20:34:07 <Rayyan> sounds like I need to get myself signed up
20:34:23 <Erhard> Been very reliable. YOu get emails if there are any issues, just like a paying customer.
20:34:29 <Rayyan> they must be losing a lot of money
20:34:38 <sozuba> https://termbin.com/tqug <- ami doing something wrong, why is there a freespace between efi and swap?
20:34:42 <Erhard> I doubt it. That is so little resources for them
20:34:48 <meena> our blood now belongs to Larry Ellis
20:34:52 <Erhard> You are not allowed to use it for mining or anything.
20:35:13 <Erhard> But, like I said I use one every day as a VPN for my phone.
20:36:00 <RhodiumToad> sozuba: what command did you use to create the swap partition?
20:36:22 <sozuba> RhodiumToad: gpart add -a 1m -s 15G -t freebsd-swap -l swap0 ada0
20:36:37 <RhodiumToad> sozuba: so the gap is there because of the 1M alignment
20:37:18 <sozuba> ah okay, i was followign this https://wiki.freebsd.org/RootOnZFS/GPTZFSBoot
20:37:19 <VimDiesel> Title: RootOnZFS/GPTZFSBoot - FreeBSD Wiki
20:37:35 <RhodiumToad> sozuba: remember the GPT table itself takes 20 kbytes
20:37:38 <meena> Erhard: i need to see how cloud-init does on Oracle cloud then. Today i saw my code run for the first time in vultr. that was exciting
20:37:41 <sozuba> so to not have that, i shouud remove that 1M alignment for swap?
20:37:53 <Erhard> I have not tried cloud-init
20:38:00 <RhodiumToad> or make the efi size 20K less than a multiple of 1M
20:38:01 <Erhard> I installed manually.
20:38:32 <sozuba> fair point, will do. Thanks :)
20:38:33 <Erhard> I think I had to use the trial period credits to actually send the ISO over there.
20:38:54 <Erhard> Since I think ISO storage is not included for free, but you at least sued to get a month or $100 or something for free
20:39:11 <Erhard> s/sued/used/
20:39:18 <sozuba> Erhard: didn'tknow oracle had a freetier. Is there any other freetier stuffs? :D
20:39:25 <Erhard> AWS had a free year, not sure if they still do.
20:39:26 <meena> Erhard: pkg install -y net/cloud-init-devel # for my bleeding edge commits
20:39:40 <cpet> azure still gives you a nice 200 bucks to spend
20:39:48 <Erhard> https://www.oracle.com/cloud/free/
20:40:03 <Rayyan> aaa the Reddit blackout makes me realise just how much info it has
20:40:05 <Erhard> So yeah you get $300 to use within 30 days as well.
20:40:17 <Erhard> Get all your stuff setup with isos within that period.
20:41:17 <sozuba> Rayyan: yup, evey questio i find an answer to on reddit makes me realize it
20:41:36 <sozuba> nice info, thanks
20:41:47 <cpet> so people are butt hurt cause they can use 3rd party apps without the reddit stuffs on it
20:42:19 <cpet> let it go with the dodo and twitter its ok
20:42:42 <Erhard> Just ask ChaGPT, since it scraped it all anyway ;-)
20:43:07 <sozuba> Erhard: hahahaha :)
20:43:10 <cpet> I see let us have a word with this chatgpt
20:51:31 <rwp> sozuba, The other day we were chatting about power management and parv posted these two links after you had already parted the channel.  I don't know if you saw them but I wanted to point you to them as I found them interesting.
20:51:38 <rwp> sozuba, parv posted these: https://www.neelc.org/posts/optimize-freebsd-for-intel-tigerlake/ https://www.neelc.org/posts/freebsd-speed-shift-laptop/
20:51:39 <VimDiesel> Title: Optimizing FreeBSD Power Consumption on Modern Intel Laptops -
20:57:01 <RhodiumToad> iirc sozuba's laptop is an older one
21:08:27 <sozuba> rwp: That'svery thoughtful of you. Thank you and to parv. I'll checkthem out now
21:10:42 <sozuba> Ah, like RhodiumToad said mine is a haswell laptop. But again, its good to read about it, :)
21:13:30 <sozuba> Does gpart use 1024 or 1000 units?
21:14:06 <rwp> IIRC everything in computers are binary powers of two but I am sure the man page for gpart will clarify.
21:14:24 <sozuba> i looked ar the man page, couldn't find it
21:14:27 <sozuba> will check again
21:14:29 <sozuba> thanks
21:15:04 <RhodiumToad> afaik gpart uses only binary units
21:15:47 <RhodiumToad> (SI can go fsck themselves)
21:15:57 <sozuba> hahaha, same here :D
21:18:14 <sozuba> but a discussion on binarry over SI would be good one day, without flamewars.
21:19:30 <mason> I despise computer numbering based on how many figures are most common on a human.
21:19:37 <mason> s/figures/fingers/
21:19:38 <rwp> Disk drive manufactures found powers of 10 to be a marketing breakthrough for them.  Numbers appear larger that way.
21:20:01 <RhodiumToad> and progressively larger as sizes increase, even
21:20:09 <rwp> Right.  It would have been much more awesome if we had 12 fingers because multiples there are much more interesting.
21:20:51 <RhodiumToad> 12 is indeed a superior highly composite number
21:21:06 <rwp> I can't mentally understand naming the Babylonian base 60 numbers but having a large number of integer factors is a huge benefit.
21:23:02 <sozuba> I grew up learning binary, and feel awakaward using SI,simple as that. My natual intuition when it comesto bits is always binary
21:23:38 <RhodiumToad> binary units make sense for storage, since it corresponds to the number of bits in the address
21:24:04 <rwp> I think if the people pushing that computers should use powers of 10 were to do some actual engineering work developing one that they would change their minds pretty quickly.
21:24:19 <RhodiumToad> not so much for communications channels, where you're measuring a frequency, typically
21:24:45 <RhodiumToad> who is pushing for computers to use powers of 10?
21:24:52 <Erhard> Yeah, I think that only applies to people dealing with 8bit bytes, or at least power of 2.
21:25:11 <RhodiumToad> the units purists push for binary units to have ridiculous names, not that they not be used
21:25:21 <Erhard> Pretty much every other engineering would likely benefit from powers of 10 only.
21:25:42 <xtile> It is important for kilo and kibi to be distinct.
21:25:54 * RhodiumToad disagrees
21:25:55 <xtile> Otherwise how do you know which is which and when?  By memorization and convention?
21:25:59 <xtile> It adds complexity to not use kibi
21:26:05 <rwp> RhodiumToad, There are endless requests for things like df which says "42G" to say "42GiB" now instead.  For example.  Adding two extra characters to the display.  And breaking decades of scripts that are handling the traditional format.
21:26:09 <Erhard> More important for kibi and kibbeh to be distinct.
21:26:09 <xtile> I have a terrible memory, memorizing things is hard
21:27:06 <RhodiumToad> storage should be measured in binary units, period, and the fact that drive manufacturers inflate their sizes for marketing reasons should not be permitted to interfere with this
21:27:14 <xtile> Agreed.
21:27:50 <Erhard> Agreed. Megabyte is always 1,048,576 bytes
21:29:16 <Erhard> "ebi" or "ibi" anything can kiss my bits.
21:29:48 <sozuba> Initially when this mebibyte came about, it not only sounded silly, but seemed ridiculous
21:30:04 <Erhard> No past tense to that
21:30:12 <sozuba> i was like, "what? Mebi?" it's childish
21:30:24 <sozuba> Erhard: fair point
21:30:27 <RhodiumToad> and kibi is even worse
21:30:29 <xtile> It's unambiguous.
21:30:35 <rwp> RhodiumToad, When it comes to serial protocols that is somewhat different.  Since it isn't a physical thing.  It's a possibly infinite stream and so units are truly arbitrary there.
21:30:41 <xtile> why force people to play guessing games?
21:30:50 <sozuba> Kibi sounds like a cute little creature that you can pet around
21:31:03 <Erhard> Kibbehbits... It's what's leftover at the Lebanese restaurant... not a measurement.
21:31:15 <xtile> Maybe to someone from another part of the world 'kilo' sounds cute and childish.
21:31:57 <xtile> Saying mebi and kibi sound childish is top "I'll design the logo" energy.
21:32:10 <RhodiumToad> they still break scripts though
21:32:46 <Erhard> My scripts have scripted breaks.
21:33:15 <sozuba> hahaha
21:33:46 <sozuba> xtile: fair point
21:33:52 <Erhard> They usually look like: Segmentation Fault (core dumped_
21:33:57 <sozuba> but honestly that's how it felt to me
21:34:17 * xtile nods.
21:39:18 <sozuba> anyway, i gota go guys
21:39:47 <Erhard> Later
21:39:52 <sozuba> good chatting with you all. And thanks for the knowledge
21:40:01 <sozuba> have a great day evening night
21:40:09 <sozuba> later