00:00:01 daemon: theissues arose after i could feel the heat. And it gets worsewhen i start doing simple tasks, etc 00:00:21 but no load showed via top 00:00:45 daemon: yes, right now.That's the test 00:00:53 ACPI / power profile mishandling? 00:01:06 what i amatalking about is experience and the need for why we started looking at this inthe first place 00:01:29 its certainly weird 00:02:06 i gave up once a month ago, tryingto figure out abnormal heating after freebsd install,i amgoing it another go,and this timei hopingto find the cause and RhodiumToad is helping me 00:02:29 what asbout netbsd and openbsd 00:02:41 I think if you can demonstrate a significant difference between 12.4 and 13.2 then it definitely merits a bug report 00:02:42 works wellinlinux, even with fairly hard daily use,i don'tfeel the heat on my laptop 00:02:43 just out of curiosity 00:02:55 a bug in what though 00:02:56 don't complicate things yet :-) 00:03:35 RhodiumToad: booting up 12.4,i think its goingto be the same as 13.2,regardless of earlier short term result 00:03:43 its got to be some weird shared resource acpi shinnangans 00:05:19 if you fance boot 5.x :D 00:05:25 fancy a party* 00:06:14 don't be silly :-) 00:06:22 there is a 5.0? 00:06:24 RhodiumToad, fan/cooling controlled via OS is my bet :P 00:06:55 sozuba, yes there is, that is where we all had sound blasters that required MAKEDEV :) 00:07:24 Hahaha 00:08:09 I miss the old days; dialing 'into' the internet via a diamond 56k on com3 ahhhhh rose tinted glasses 00:08:58 anyhow your overheating problem; you need to isolate the actual problem 00:09:07 if it is ONLY freebsd 00:09:15 then you have a starting point 00:09:44 the question then becomes what does FreeBSD do that the other OS's do not 00:09:49 does it apply to other BSD's? 00:09:55 we swap alot of code 00:10:06 so netbsd and openbsd do they have the same issue? 00:10:29 if they do not you narrow down the issue further and ffurther 00:10:40 because heck you are an edgecase either way 00:10:54 its going to be some power control thing 00:13:12 yeah, looking into acpi_thermal is probably going to have to be the next stop 00:14:12 Just booted and its already interesting, you are going ot love it 00:14:20 do tell 00:14:24 this is 12.4? 00:14:51 yes 00:15:00 https://termbin.com/y79xw 00:15:27 that is still bloody hoy 00:15:29 hot* 00:15:37 from a cold boot 00:15:37 https://termbin.com/1ijgv 00:16:07 Powerd is not running 00:16:42 look I do not want to be rude here but you are you have decent thermal compound and a decent cooling setup on this thing right 00:16:48 ok. so a main difference here is that it's not going below C1 state 00:17:01 can you do sysctl hw.acpi ? 00:17:40 cpu 100% idle 00:17:50 sure 00:18:31 https://termbin.com/ew4c 00:19:36 -1 must be infinity (I really do not read the acpi sysctls often :D) 00:19:53 hrm. so ACPI isn't really giving any control here 00:20:11 maybe that is the issue 00:20:56 the system may have been designed with the thought the OS will control via ACPI 00:21:17 hm. but this is a lenovo, aka ibm? 00:21:54 ibm sold it long back didn't it? 00:21:56 was'nt there a kernel meta module you could load to try load a bunch of proprietary ACPI controls? 00:22:21 kldload acpi_ibm 00:22:24 try that 00:22:53 and if it loads, try the sysctl hw.acpi again 00:23:31 ok 00:23:49 it looks like acpi_ibm has its own thermal subsystem separate from acpi_thermal 00:23:56 loaded 00:24:04 hw.acpi.thermal.tz0._CRT: 127.1C 00:24:04 -- CRT? 00:24:10 critical 00:24:13 ah 00:24:20 that's the temperature at which it forces a shutdown 00:24:27 should i give 5 mins before doing dev.cpu, for the changes to settle? 00:24:39 nah, just do it now 00:25:16 ok 00:26:05 do not hold us in suspense :P better? 00:26:10 https://termbin.com/vnfv 00:26:20 oh, also, sysctl dev.acpi_ibm 00:26:22 thqat is a LOT more lines of text 00:26:28 so it did something 00:27:01 more than what? that's looking at a different sysctl node 00:27:43 I was looking at dev.cpu >.> 00:27:45 its late 00:28:11 https://termbin.com/sb07 00:29:00 hm 00:29:12 sysctl dev.acpi_ibm.0.fan=1 00:29:15 try that 00:29:46 report if it starts hovering of course :P 00:30:58 out of sysctl dev.acpi_ibm.0.fan=1 is -> dev.acpi_ibm.0.fan: 0 -> 1 00:31:02 ouput* 00:31:14 did the fans spin up? 00:31:30 ok, now do sysctl dev.acpi_ibm again, and also sysctl dev.cpu and sysctl hw.acpi 00:31:55 that "fan" setting is supposedly for automatic vs manual mode, with 0 being manual 00:32:15 daemon: i just checked, it looks like it is. 00:32:34 when you run linux, is the fan usually on? 00:32:59 just as an aside RhodiumToad is way smarter than me :P I was just curious but it seems we have the solution to the problem 00:33:03 https://termbin.com/eizq 00:33:52 I thin k modifications to /etc/sysctl.conf are nexty 00:34:01 well, none of the sensors ever showed the fan was running, so i got a bit worried and checked it, it always runs, very silent, I have to placemy ear very close to the vent 00:35:04 Also revently i wanted to try controlling the speed of the fan, so i installed think pad specific fan control tool, it messed up, so uninstalled and let the kernel handle it 00:35:11 and the everythign was back to norma 00:35:26 well 00:35:31 01:31, that "fan" setting is supposedly for automatic vs manual mode, with 0 being manual 00:35:41 would suggest it wants manual control via software 00:36:00 so ... yeah acpi shinangans 00:36:36 sozuba: what do we see for sysctl dev.cpu and sysctl hw.acpi now? 00:37:31 dev.cpu -> https://termbin.com/kfrl 00:38:05 is the fan still running? 00:38:07 * LxGHTNxNG rotates slowly 00:38:17 hw.acpi -> https://termbin.com/t0q6 00:39:18 yes, just checked again, it is running 00:39:38 ok. powerd is not running? 00:40:02 no it is not running 00:40:26 can you do service powerd onestart wait a few seconds then service powerd onestop 00:40:32 sure 00:40:53 done waiting few seconds 00:41:10 ideally we want to generate some cpu load. what's a good cpu-heavy program in the base system? 00:41:23 compile opneoffice 00:41:47 stopped 00:42:05 that or do a quick perl -e 'while(1) { int(rand(9999))*int(rand(9999)) }' 00:42:10 but that is a single core 00:43:13 would it be better to do the load test in an installed system, or it doesn;t matter if it is a live medium 00:43:16 ?* 00:43:39 does not matter 00:43:48 okay :) 00:43:51 dd if=/dev/zero bs=4k count=10000000 | xz -T0 -c >/dev/null & 00:44:10 larry approves the perl method ;o 00:44:10 then look at top while that is running 00:44:15 ok 00:44:18 perl is not in base 00:44:27 I know :( 00:44:41 xz is a convenient cpu-heavy thread-enabled program 00:45:12 even though they are gpl perl and zsh should be 'options' on the installer they are both so handy 00:45:30 top shows 96% usage for user and 4% usage for system ~ 00:45:48 ok, and sysctl dev.cpu shows what now? 00:46:33 tem is close to 79,81 00:46:42 still below tjmax 00:46:46 fan is still running? 00:47:17 https://termbin.com/7e842 00:47:22 let me check the fan 00:47:32 its a lenovo I havea 6th gen 00:47:48 you will feel that shit if its fan is on 00:48:13 put your hand behind it or under it depending on model 00:48:32 yes fan running, but suprisingly still just less fan sound, usually i can hear the sound 00:48:35 let emcheck again 00:49:12 remember that the tjmax is 90c 00:49:17 the fan should scale with load 00:49:17 yes can confirm fan is running 00:49:28 i.e. it should get louder with the higher the load 00:49:52 it sounds like it is not operating correctly by all accounts 00:49:59 yup, that's what it has been doing so far, but here i don't know 00:50:39 I mean its not hitting thermal cut out 00:50:47 that is the point you have a problem 00:50:49 teem is 92, should i stop the stress test? 00:50:52 temp* 00:50:58 no 00:51:01 yeah, kill %1 should stop it 00:51:17 the cpu will auto thermal throttle if it is at risk 00:51:25 no need to push it that far 00:51:42 DONE 00:51:46 we not going to get de-lidding? :D 00:52:17 sorry for the caps 00:52:22 no worries 00:52:37 im just glad its not only me that somehow manages to hit caps lock accidentaly 00:53:08 i have butter fingers, i do all sorts of things with my keyboard :P 00:53:20 kinky bugger ;) 00:53:28 has the temperature gone back down? 00:53:46 come on man, i didn't mean it in that sense 00:53:54 :) 00:54:14 I know I just could not help my self lol; but indeed with RhodiumToad on this one; has the thing cooled? 00:54:14 yup temp is 58,58,61,61 00:54:31 so ... sysctl.conf? or rc.conf and kld_list 00:55:06 if you do a proper install, then the thing to do is probably this: 00:55:42 acpi_ibm_load="YES" in /boot/loader.conf 00:56:24 dev.acpi_ibm.0.fan=1 in /etc/sysctl.conf 00:56:25 okay will do, noted down 00:56:47 and probably a good idea to do service powerd enable 00:57:27 okay 00:57:45 so the issu is the fan and power are notproperly managed? 00:57:53 I have this fun upcoming; that 6th gen X1 I mentioned earlier is going to be BSD in a month or two -_- 00:58:07 there controlled in software 00:58:26 BSD does not control anything unless you tell it to 00:58:45 daemon: ah okay 00:59:09 really kinda crap to be honest for fundamental hardware like cpu's and the ilk 00:59:20 I would expect that to have a fallback 01:00:04 daemon, Yeah I agree :D 01:00:31 well I will get the same fun as you in a month of so; so I guess at least I know now :D 01:01:31 installing freebsd on a system that is XHD this will be fun 01:01:51 haha, i think yo wont have much problwm with yours. 01:03:06 RhodiumToad: i'll have to go out now toget somethings done,are we done for now? If so, i'll finish my stuff then cmeback and install anddo what you suggested, then check everything we checkednow and the, keep you posted whenyou are available 01:03:36 if not, i can continue testing now and postpone my suffs for later :) 01:03:41 no worries, just let meknow 01:04:15 I mean ~ if your problem is solved then surely you should offer thanks? 01:04:21 I have other stuff to do today 01:04:51 you can catch me around tomorrow or so, most likely 01:05:01 RhodiumToad: when ever you are free and available, i very mcuh understand you have a life beyond this 01:05:28 daemon: well, we don't know if it's really solved 01:05:51 daemon: always, i amnot sure of the issues is sorted, RhodiumToad hasn;tsaid anythingof that sort. But i amvery thnakful tohimand you for spending your time and effort tohelp me 01:05:54 RhodiumToad, everything is grey -_- be british about it; we had sun today 01:06:37 Thank you guys :) 01:06:38 sozuba, and we hope it is solved :) 01:06:43 sozuba, have a good evening 01:07:06 i hope so too,i can'twait tofinally play around with freebsd and alsoget some work done with it 01:07:44 daemon: you too 01:07:46 ~ I use windows bsd and linux, use the right tool for the job :P 01:07:57 * daemon bows head 01:08:07 have a lovely eveningyou two daemon and RhodiumToad 01:08:10 thanks again 01:08:20 np always welcome :) 01:08:34 daemon: I rarely use windows, even then on a vM 01:08:54 And members of family who still have windows 01:09:04 linux has been what i used 01:09:22 I amstillfiguring out the right tool for me 01:09:36 well,honestly I amstill figuringout a lot in life. 01:09:49 sometime i wonder where I am, haha 01:09:57 I need to bail its 2am in the uk :P so after this message I am gone, but if you like freebsd and its ports system you should also checkout gentoo; bsd for servers, linux for docker, windows for ui :P bye bye o/ 01:09:58 anyway,that's life. 01:10:16 i used gentoo for 7 months 01:10:18 loved it 01:10:42 unfortunately my laptopcoundlt handlethe compiling 01:10:53 understand have a good ngiht then 01:10:57 bye guys 01:11:00 take care 01:11:02 catch you later 05:04:32 gentoo + laptop = great in the winter time, lol 05:58:13 #freebsd is probably not the right place for that. 06:35:06 right place for what? 06:43:55 markmcb: waxing poetic about gentoo 06:45:41 lol, ok, sorry. it's not an exaggerated comment. compilation = heat. laptops don't tend to handle heat well. i wasn't aware humor was not allowed. 06:49:15 i think it was _mostly_ sozuba 06:50:11 ah, ok. i thought you all just really hated my joke. :) 06:55:55 anyone know if it's possible to setup geli such that it looks for a keyfile, and if not found prompts for a passphrase? 07:02:52 have you tried the example in the man page? 07:03:45 yeah, unless i'm doing it wrong, it seems to want both the key and the passphrase vs. key or passphrase 07:04:18 the one with the "two User Keys: one for your employee and one for you as the company's security officer" 07:12:06 yes. it's more of a loader.conf questioni guess. i can get it to work with just a key, if the provider has been setup like that, but i can't seem to get it to not prompt me for a passphrase if i've provided a key, but fallback to passphrase if the key isn't present 07:21:07 it will have to remain an unsolved mystery for tonight. good night all. 08:42:57 Anyone know where I could search to find out info about what broke when updating py-cryptography past 3.4.8? I see that it got reverted in ed4bec1e01390965296c2f510e87de9ccf8cef63 but I can't find info about why 08:44:35 maybe in bugs.freebsd.org or the mailing lists? 08:45:25 Could try Ports Git repository https://cgit.freebsd.org/ports/ ; the "review" section https://reviews.freebsd.org/; & Bugzilla https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/ 08:45:27 Title: ports - FreeBSD ports tree 08:45:38 I mean, in SW development I am used to have the "why" referenced in the commit message of a specific change 08:46:14 haven't had a look on the commits of freebsd - is it any different here? 08:48:39 See the reason in src/; in ports/ sometimes not 08:59:07 well, in that case I'd directly ask tcberner or leave a comment at https://reviews.freebsd.org/R11:ed4bec1e01390965296c2f510e87de9ccf8cef63 08:59:08 Title: R11:ed4bec1e0139 08:59:43 or the maintainer of that port 09:01:30 Thanks to RhDoc's URL for "reviews", reason is "Revert due to multiple breakage reports." 09:02:48 yeah, but endrift was curious about what exactly broke. "multiple breakage reports" without mentioning the reports themselves wouldn't help in that case 09:06:29 In that case need would need to trawl through mailing list, bugzilla 09:07:35 unfortunate 09:08:47 it's fairly simple, more or less 09:09:14 I'm now facing a separate issue that py39-boost-libs is shipping a static lib that was built without -fPIC, but I'm trying to build something that builds a shared lib against it 09:09:35 because....there is no py-libtorrent-rasterbar2 port yet 09:10:16 the yak shaving continues 09:14:03 endrift: are you compiling your own ports? 09:14:23 wasn't trying to, but the port I was using before an update seems to be currently broken 09:15:18 ultimately I just want to use deluge, but installing that via pkg shows nothing, installing via pip tries to pull a newer twisted[tls] that requires a newer cryptography 09:15:54 found I could install deluge by forcing it to use the existing twisted install, or at least an older one, but then it complains that libtorrent is missing 09:16:03 so I'm trying to install that, without much luck 09:18:07 libtorrent-rasterbar2 itself installs, but it doesn't include the python libs, and there's no py-libtorrent-rasterbar2 09:18:25 and trying to build it manually incurs the linker error mentioned above 09:20:31 https://pypa.github.io/pipx/ 09:20:32 Title: pipx 09:20:56 I feel like you've missed the problem 09:21:14 install the c and c++ deps, and try pipx for the python stuff 09:21:32 those are already installed, but compiled without -fPIC 09:21:39 by the installed pkg 09:21:43 endrift, You may not like this plan: remove the existing related packages; compile however you want & what you possibly can (use packages for the rest) 09:21:57 aye, i was indeed missing the gym context 09:22:34 parv: I was planning to see if I could just rebuild the boost python libs at this point 09:22:51 I think everything else should just work after that, though I know mixing ports and packages is a bad plan 09:22:52 endrift, Right, right 09:22:58 unsure I have anything else that depends on this 09:23:07 it's a static lib anyway so...wait 09:23:17 I can just build a local copy and link against that 09:23:51 let's back up for a second: why are the… things compiled without -fPIC? 09:24:11 Dunno, that's just how the pkg builds it 09:24:23 It might be an issue with boost's bespoke build system 09:24:29 it wouldn't surprise me, it is boost 09:25:15 that said, I think there may be ports currently marked as broken as a direct result of this 09:25:37 https://www.freshports.org/devel/boost-python-libs/ this is the port that ships a static lib built without -fPIC 09:25:38 Title: FreshPorts -- devel/boost-python-libs: Framework for interfacing Python and C++ 09:26:27 ah I double checked, the broken port was marked broken for a different issue 09:30:17 https://www.freshports.org/devel/boost-python-libs/ 09:30:18 Title: FreshPorts -- devel/boost-python-libs: Framework for interfacing Python and C++ 09:31:16 actually, hm, why is my local build of libtorrent-rasterbar trying to link against the static lib...? I can probably get it to link against the shared lib instead 11:28:21 Installing freebsd, and if i am making a uefi setup gpt is the prefered partition right? or bsd would suffice? 11:29:54 i am already reading the documents, just asking for peopels opinion and experience :) 11:37:19 going ahead with uefi 11:37:23 i mean gpt 12:47:12 sozuba: good choice 12:47:41 imm_: thanks and reason? 12:55:47 now days rust port is become outdated wile latest version is still compiling by the poudriere ... 13:36:40 readung this -> https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/wireless-interface-not-listed-but-it-works.59150/ it says wireless interface wont be visible under ifconfig and we just have to accept it and work with that 13:36:42 Title: Solved - Wireless interface not listed (but it works) | The FreeBSD Forums 13:36:51 is that the case? if so why? 13:37:37 sysctl -n net.wlan.devices shows iwm0 exists, so why is not listed under ifconfig 13:47:55 sozuba: you need to map it to a WLAN(4) device 13:50:43 meena0: ah okay, will do thank you :) 13:58:09 sozuba: this feels like tmi https://docs.freebsd.org/en/books/handbook/advanced-networking/#network-wireless 13:58:10 Title: Chapter 33. Advanced Networking | FreeBSD Documentation Portal 14:03:21 meena0: yes read and configured 14:03:35 thank you, i though tere was something missing, some module or stuff 14:03:37 :) 14:04:15 what is tmi? 14:15:57 okay too muc information, urban dictionary:p 14:16:16 guys, does anyone know if my syntax is correct? 14:16:25 dev.acpi_ibm.0.fan=1 14:16:50 should there be space between charcters and = sign? 14:18:35 in sysctl.conf, no space needed 14:22:18 Hi RhodiumToad thanks :) 14:22:50 installation complete, butt the tempreature is still high with nothing running and cpu 100% idle. 14:23:17 55,55,53,53 C 14:23:23 you changed /boot/loader.conf and /etc/sysctl.conf? and rebooted after? 14:23:47 yup, as you said 14:24:00 and powerd is enabled 14:24:50 ok, let's see the sysctl dev.cpu and sysctl hw.acpi 14:25:01 sure 14:26:46 dev.cpu https://termbin.com/d824 14:27:37 also, is the fan running? 14:27:58 yes it is running, i can hear it clearly 14:28:12 clearly meaning, movig my ear close to the wentt 14:28:16 vent* 14:29:07 hw.acpi https://termbin.com/mny5 14:29:41 hmm. 14:30:35 can you try sysctl dev.acpi_ibm.0.fan_level=7 14:30:40 sure 14:32:19 done, the temperate is still high 57,57,54,55 14:33:19 should i post dev.cpu again? 14:34:00 does the fan sound the same? and did the output say 0 -> 7 14:35:02 the fan still sounds the same 14:35:17 and yes, dev.acpi_ibm.0.fan_level: 0 -> 7 14:35:23 ok, now do sysctl dev.acpi_ibm.0.fan=0 14:35:29 ok 14:35:50 and when you do that, does the fan go off, speed up, or stay the same? 14:36:16 dev.acpi_ibm.0.fan_level: 7 -> 0 14:36:28 stays the same 14:36:34 but will try again and see 14:37:45 checked again, it feels like it has no impact on the fan 14:37:48 it stays the same 14:38:44 no, set fan_level to 7 and .fan to 0 14:39:00 oh sorry 14:39:37 setting .fan to 0 should put the fan on manual mode, and fan_level=7 should be the fastest controlled speed 14:39:55 but if it doesn't actually change, that suggests that none of these settings have any effect 14:42:17 i dodn't see any change 14:42:23 in the way fan functions 14:42:35 sound, inyernsity/umpact remains same 14:42:52 temps are still high? 14:43:23 dev.acpi_ibm.0.fan: 1 -> 0 and dev.acpi_ibm.0.fan_level: 0 -> 7 14:43:39 yes, temp is high 57,57,53,53 14:44:15 ok. I think I'm out of ideas; this should probably be a bug report. 14:44:27 you'll need to collect this info to attach to the report: 14:45:08 both dev.cpu and hw.api? 14:45:23 the exact model name and age of the laptop, the contents of /var/run/dmesg.boot, the output of sysctl dev.cpu; sysctl hw.acpi; sysctl dev.acpi_ibm 14:45:51 okay, will do. Thank you very much RhodiumToad 14:46:11 mention specifically that changing the fan= and fan_level= settings did not do any good, and that powerd isn't helping 14:46:31 okay will do, will post a link here after,to keep you updated 14:46:53 also, point out specifically that it's running pretty warm even when the system is idle and the clock speeds stepped all the way down 14:47:26 and stress that this is OS-dependent and that it's noticable cooler in linux 14:48:03 i.e. not just different reported temps, but you can actually feel a difference (assuming that is the case) 14:50:50 Got it, will mention that. 14:51:58 also that it was running hot both with and without acpi_ibm loaded 14:52:18 Bug component should be kernel right? 14:52:22 while filing 14:52:26 yes 14:52:39 sure, will mention that too 14:52:46 ok 14:54:48 Does this title sound apt? "Excesive Laptop Heating with 99-100% CPU idle" 14:55:29 mention the type of laptop in the title 14:55:41 ok 14:58:30 sounds good? Excessive heating on Lenovo Thinkpad E450, even at 99-100% of CPU idle 14:58:55 good enough 14:59:07 awesome :) 14:59:37 might be worth posting to the forums too 14:59:45 (with the same info) 15:01:48 Yeah was thingking the same. Will do 15:19:21 RhodiumToad: i was going through the output of sysinfo -a, and i noticed this-> https://termbin.com/g1w8 , does this have ny significance to my issue? 15:19:52 mainly, The acpi_wmi.ko module is loaded, however it is not being loaded upon the system boot time from /boot/loader.conf. 15:21:13 did you load coretemp yourself manually? also what is kld_list set to in /etc/rc.conf, if anything? 15:21:31 RhodiumToad: yes i loaded it manually 15:22:11 there is no kld_list in my rc.conf 15:22:24 it's fine for modules to be brought in as dependencies of other modules or via rc.conf rather than having to put everything in loader.conf 15:23:05 understood 15:23:33 hm 15:23:37 pchtherm is in there? 15:23:47 what does sysctl dev.pchtherm show? 15:26:00 I'm guessing that was loaded by devmatch 15:26:48 output of dev.pctherm -> https://termbin.com/bl1ys 15:27:06 rc.conf https://termbin.com/wl2uu 15:28:04 loader.conf https://termbin.com/b1ap 15:28:32 ok. so the pchtherm output is consistent with the rest 15:29:32 that also tells us that 93C is this system's limit for normal operation, and 115C is when it will shutdown 15:29:56 ah okay cool :) 15:38:04 pchtherm just lets us read info from the device, it doesn't seem to have any tunable knobs that might be relevant to the problem 15:40:02 i thought it was something i forgot to set and may be is what causing the issue :D. I also got a bit hopeful :P 15:50:22 dev.pctehrm, dev.cpu hw.acpi, should those be attached as files or pasted in the summary? 15:51:08 probably best as files 15:53:12 okay 15:55:47 every morning i wake up to sendmail driving a load of 5+ on 8 cpus and doubling my systems wattage. how do i completely disable it? i have sendmail_enable="NONE" set 15:57:43 what's it doing? 15:59:13 smmsp is trying sendmail -i root 16:00:06 (you could do cp /usr/share/examples/dma/mailer.conf /etc/mail/mailer.conf to ensure that anything trying to send mail uses DMA instead) 16:00:32 you also want sendmail_submit_enable="NO" in rc.conf 16:01:19 * RhodiumToad builds with the WITHOUT_SENDMAIL option, so can't easily check these settings 16:02:05