00:35:50 Hi, I'm playing with Linux compat with a Ubuntu base and cannot make OpenGL apps work, I found the nvidia driver are saved in /compat/linux but not /compat/ubuntu 00:37:30 How can I make them work in /compat/ubuntu? 02:09:28 are ARM cpu taking over? 02:09:35 unlikely. 02:09:37 how well does freebsd run on them? 02:09:53 I wonder if nvidia desktop pc coming soon 02:10:06 is archlnux faster than freebsd? 02:20:57 Only way to know for sure is to run your specific workload(s) on both and compare. 08:20:24 FreeBSD runs well on ARM CPUs, it's all the peripheral hardware that's the problem as usual. 08:21:02 pretty sure that guy is a long-term troll 11:14:30 Hey guys, I have an old HP Gen8 server with 10x SAS drives (hot-plug capable). after inserting one of the disks I get a message (in dmesg): "ciss0: Hot-plug drive inserted [blah blah blah]". However, the disk does not become "available". 'geom disk list' doesn't show it and there isn't an entry in /dev like there is when I boot the server with the disk already present. 11:14:47 is there anything I have to do to make the disk "work" after receiving the hot-plug message? 11:21:25 camcontrol rescan seems to do the trick :) 11:42:38 jbo: yay! 12:17:25 Hi. I've a trouble with freebsd 13 and VLAN on Hetzner VSwitch 12:17:32 http://paste.scsys.co.uk/8842 12:17:33 Title: magnet_web paste from Someone at 217.168.150.38... 12:18:00 I don't understant how to reach 10.100.1.2 host 12:18:58 ferz: you need to assign all respective hosts to the same vswitch 12:19:18 then you need to configure a vlan on main interface of the server. the vlan ID is the "vswitch" number 12:19:40 and then you assign the IPs on the vlan subinterfaces 12:21:00 if you have vswitch number (vlan), for example, 10, then you need to, for example: ifconfig vlan10 create vlan 10 vlandev em0 12:21:40 and then you might also need to write all this info to /etc/rc.conf (using proper syntax) 12:22:15 otis: yes, vlan ID is 4000 and I've increase net.fib and used fib=1 12:22:42 http://paste.scsys.co.uk/8842 12:22:43 Title: magnet_web paste from Someone at 217.168.150.38... 12:22:50 I've done in this way. 12:23:24 Other hosts are Linux on VLAN 4000 and they see each others 12:31:36 i wouldn't use "fib" unless you really need to 12:33:30 because otherwise you need to setfib -F 1 route get 10.100.1.5 12:33:41 eh, 10.100.1.2 12:33:49 or setfib -F 1 ping 10.100.1.2 12:51:32 otis: thank you 12:51:58 otis: I'll redo without fib then 12:55:38 http://paste.scsys.co.uk/8847 12:55:38 it doesn't ping yet. 12:55:38 Title: magnet_web paste from "ferz" at 217.168.150.38... 12:57:14 I found a very interesting abstract - wonder if there is full video of paper somweher : THE FREEBSD APPLIANCE: LEVERAGING FREEBSD AND STRATEGIC SCRIPTING TO DELIVER STORAGE AND VIRTUALIZATION SERVICES 12:57:32 ferz: output of ifconfig? output from "arp -an" ? 13:00:35 anyone here running FreeBSD (cloud) servers without swap? 13:51:25 (context, in case you're wondering: https://github.com/freebsd/freebsd-src/blob/main/libexec/rc/rc.d/growfs adds swap, unless you tell it not to) 13:51:27 Title: freebsd-src/growfs at main · freebsd/freebsd-src · GitHub 13:58:42 that's some serious magic 14:00:12 i'm still missing the context though 14:01:19 otis: http://paste.scsys.co.uk/8853 arp and ifconfig output 14:01:20 Title: magnet_web paste from Someone at 217.168.150.38... 14:02:59 yuripv: whoops, sorry, in case you mised it: 14:00 anyone here running FreeBSD (cloud) servers without swap? 14:04:15 meena: yes, but what is the real question? 14:04:59 (or is it just a poll? :) 14:05:17 are you running a server without Swap? if so, why? and: How upset would you be if you made an image without swap, and a cloud-provisioning software squeezed some swap in there 14:36:22 people still run swap in 2023? 14:42:01 Seems like running without swap would be quite reckless. 14:44:02 we use swap to crashdump… 14:57:12 whats wrong with running swap 14:57:44 Nothing 14:59:25 The only real argument I’ve heard against it is SSD lifetime years and years ago. But I haven’t heard that as much more recentlyb 15:12:57 Might we see a 14.0-ALPHA (ready for binary upgrades moving forward to -BETA, -RC*, and -RELEASE) in the coming days? 15:20:18 Unless https://www.freebsd.org/releases/14.0R/schedule/ isn't current, a prerequisite step planned for April 25 was delayed, so your guess is as good as mine. 15:20:20 Title: FreeBSD 14.0 Release Process | The FreeBSD Project 15:25:00 coreystephanphd: as soon as we have a fix for OpenSSL 3 in ports and a decision on what to do with it on base, we'll get an update schedule 15:39:41 meena: +1 19:04:01 building from src, as non-root, with DESTDIR & MAKEOBJDIRPREFIX=/tmp/obj set, I still see lots of warnings about access 19:04:03 make[5]: warning: /lib/geom: Permission denied. 19:04:31 should buildworld even be doing this? why would it need to touch /lib/geom etc? 19:05:47 * dch just finds NO_ROOT ... what else am I missing? 20:54:48 dch: there was a thread recently, and, i don't remember 20:55:08 I'm getting pretty close. bw, bk, all as non-root. 20:57:19 meena: I guess make release will be unable to make a memstick though 20:58:00 what about make packages? eh? eh?? 21:01:17 is this a pkgbase thing 21:01:29 IDK surely all we need is sh, lua, and cc 21:01:39 everything else is sugar-goating users 21:02:15 mmmmmhh sugar goats 21:02:29 I use swop in clowd instances so i can get a crashdump if it happens 21:02:47 well well /tmp/obj/tmp/src/arm64.aarch64/release/oci.qcow2 21:03:04 I get all the way through to a built image without root 21:03:36 ... its borked ofc 21:03:54 mktemp: mkdtemp failed on /var/tmp/temproot.OSt8VqBBa9: Permission denied 21:05:30 how? 21:06:40 https://cgit.freebsd.org/src/tree/release/scripts/mm-mtree.sh#n33 21:06:41 Title: mm-mtree.sh « scripts « release - src - FreeBSD source tree 21:06:52 why can't this use a normal tmpdir 21:09:04 why does that invocation need root? 21:10:47 that doesn't when I fix /var/tmp/ which on these systems isnt user writable 21:10:54 users get /tmp/ and have to like it 21:11:15 anyway a bit further on we need chroot, pw "you must be root" also 21:11:29 oh, right 21:11:57 I still think pw needing root in an alternate root is a bit nonsensical 21:12:13 yeah maybe theres a fakeroot thing that fixes that 21:12:23 what do we use chroot for? 21:14:21 dch: we can TMPROOT to depend on NO_ROOT and then use /tmp 21:15:12 Why would /var/tmp be changed away from the default world writable with the t-bit set? What's the advantage of doing that? 21:15:46 This is the system default: drwxrwxrwt 9 root wheel 47 May 10 13:48 /var/tmp 21:18:31 rwp: the less place attackers have to write, .... the less place they have ... to write 21:18:33 Re: "warning: /lib/geom: Permission denied." I have been wondering about those too. I haven't figured out exactly what is happening at that point yet that wants root at that point. Seems very gratuitous at that point in the build. 21:18:54 If you want you could replace /var/tmp with a symlink to /tmp and I think that everything will continue working. 21:19:12 yes but sometimes as root/wheel I want a /var/tmp/ 21:19:24 It's just that by convention /var/tmp is where files will survive a reboot. Like vi/vim recovery files. But by convention /tmp is always purged on a reboot. 21:19:30 and /tmp is a tmpfs in my place 21:19:51 these are somewhat restricted servers, so I'm fine with that 21:20:50 For restricted servers then I think you will want to build in a jail and then upgrade from there. Probably. Seems plausible. That's the route I am taking. 21:23:44 by convention /tmp _may_ be purged on a reboot, it's not usually a default 21:24:04 obviously making it tmpfs is one way to do that 21:24:14 there's also an rc.conf option for it 21:24:31 Purging /tmp on reboot is one of those cultural changes that happened about 1995 in the unix world. Using a tmpfs for /tmp seemed to flow through about 2010. 21:24:45 setting TMPDIR=/tmp may help with some utilities that try /var/tmp 21:25:02 I'm talking specifically about freebsd 21:26:30 Since the default mktemp is /tmp then that it tried to use /var/tmp tells me that someone already either set TMPDIR=/var/tmp or specified it on the command line. 21:27:17 If one were inclined one could hack a modified mktemp that always used /tmp regardless of TMPDIR or command line arguments. It would be pretty straightforward. 21:28:14 you're trying to build the src tree as non-root? 21:28:40 RhodiumToad, It is dch who is doing this. Working through the build as non-root. 21:29:23 But I agree with dch's unstated but implied feeling that building everything as root is "icky" and really should be a non-privileged build. 21:29:29 I would like a non-root build process working for me. 21:29:56 been a while since I tried it. let's give it a whirl 21:30:04 RhodiumToad: yep. buildworld and buildkernel are fine. its the final cd /usr/src/release && make ... WITH_CLOUDWARE=yes CLOUDWARE=OCI cloudware-release 21:30:18 ah 21:30:30 It basically works. But we do get all of these "warning: /lib/geom: Permission denied." types of errors on all of the system dirs at various points in the build. 21:30:37 tbh I'm curious how far I'd get 21:30:53 you get those errors in buildworld, buildkernel, or release? 21:31:20 Let me paste and post a build log from one of my builds... 21:31:44 I can see some obvious issues with building release as non-root, for example the fact that you can't set schg on files 21:33:37 It's 84MB in size. So, maybe fetch it and browse it with less rather than a web browser? https://www.proulx.com/tmp/freebsd/buildworld.out.txt 21:35:21 I am in the wheel group and therefore it had write permission to /usr/obj. dch is doing further overrides to put that elsewhere, and is seeing other additional issues. 21:36:04 * RhodiumToad aborts the build he just started having realized it was on the wrong box 21:36:21 https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/HASeOG4O/whining_build 21:36:22 Title: Snippet | IRCCloud 21:36:53 hm 21:37:08 ^ this sort of stuff for example. IIRC this is actually from release build, but it is the same dirs and warnings in buildworld/buildkernel 21:37:18 so the thing with make is that it sometimes produces spurious "permission denied" warnings on dirs 21:37:29 When I ran that last build I forgot to give it a -j option so it ran to completion with one thread. Took a little over 10 hours on a modestly speedy box. 21:37:37 and in the cloudware section: 21:37:48 it checks for dir writability whenever you set the object dir, even if that dir never actually gets used 21:38:11 https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/R5LICN4x/whining_build_release 21:38:12 Title: Snippet | IRCCloud 21:38:16 so for example I have a readonly /usr/src, and make always whines about that. 21:41:36 dch: I reached out to Hetzner directly to see if they might furnish some credits for FreeBSD research, BTW! 21:44:12 RhodiumToad, That comment about chflags schg immutable is a good one. What files normally get that on a default system? 21:45:45 kraptv: I'm working on cloud-init and I think maybe the next release will be working a lot better on Hetzner, then they could consider providing official images again?? 21:46:15 there's a bunch of PRs in the pipeline that should make it work less bad on Hetzner and DigitalOcean 21:48:20 rwp: libc, libcrypt, linthr, ld-elf, maybe a few others 21:50:39 I ran "find -x / -flags +schg -exec ls -ldo {} +" across my system and found only one "dr-xr-xr-x 2 root wheel schg,uarch 2 Dec 1 2021 /var/empty" 21:50:58 But maybe the -x trimmed too much. 21:55:41 I ran "find -x /usr/* -flags +schg -exec ls -ldo {} +" without too much thought to look over everything else and no other files with schg set found. 21:55:50 also init, chpass, login, opieinfo, opiepasswd, passwd, su, crontab, a few others 21:56:09 kraptv: cool! andrew@ has some initial patches for gpu boot loader, when I get time to test 21:56:44 what's gpu boot loader? 21:57:09 RhodiumToad: so the consensus is, building a release needs root still? 21:57:19 yuripv: https://people.freebsd.org/~andrew/0001-WIP-virtio-gpu.patch 21:57:37 I should have said "virtio-gpu loader support on arm64" 21:57:54 oh, i thought we are now running on gpu 21:58:09 (doesn't sound that crazy nowadays) 21:58:44 someone got linux running in a gpu shader. 21:59:17 yuripv: https://dashbit.co/blog/nx-numerical-elixir-is-now-publicly-available runs erlang vm bytecode in gpu. the sky(net) is the limit these days 21:59:18 Title: Nx (Numerical Elixir) is now publicly available - Dashbit Blog 22:00:26 rwp: how did you install? the system I'm looking at is a 13.2-stable installed via installworld 22:00:53 maybe release uses the NO_FSCHG option, I don't know 22:02:00 installworld sets schg for any program or lib that has PRECIOUSPROG or PRECIOUSLIB set in its makefile 22:04:07 RhodiumToad, A standard ISO installation and then standard freebsd-update upgrades subsequently. 22:04:28 My system is 13.1-RELEASE-p7 at this moment. 22:04:54 hm, I don't have an installer-installed system handy 22:05:01 lemme download a release 22:06:15 I am running a full binary installed system. freebsd-update with pkg binary packages. But I would like to be comfortable building the full system from source. 22:40:34 eh. I have to sleep now 22:58:01 ENOSLEEP!