00:17:01 <hwpplayer1> hi people!
00:17:38 <gry> hello
00:18:01 <hwpplayer1> it's been a long time
00:18:44 <hwpplayer1> I am a member of Turkish local hackerspace in Telegram also
00:19:17 <hwpplayer1> And also I'm admin there
00:19:19 <gry> lovely
00:20:23 <hwpplayer1> gry if not a problem where are you from ?
00:20:32 <gry> Australia
00:20:38 <hwpplayer1> Nice Country
00:20:49 <gry> i've not been to Turkey, and i've not seen members of local unix user groups, bit shy of new places so
00:20:54 <gry> yes, it is great so far
00:21:30 <hwpplayer1> Do you have a server located in your country ?
00:22:20 <hwpplayer1> I have a website which is "shared hosting" but not a server located in a dataceenter
00:22:44 <hwpplayer1> I was running FreeBSD in GCP
00:27:00 <gry> hwpplayer1: i got a vm in south australia, from networkpresence
00:27:24 <gry> datacenter sort of thing gives me more control, but is more expensive
00:27:37 <hwpplayer1> true
00:27:40 <gry> i do have a static ip at home so it could be used for some services shared with a group of friends, but nothing production level
00:27:58 <hwpplayer1> understood
00:28:50 <hwpplayer1> let me search networkpresence
00:28:51 <hwpplayer1>  
00:28:51 <hwpplayer1>  
00:29:08 <hwpplayer1> sorry for copy paste
00:33:46 <hwpplayer1> "... awesome!! They solved the problem before I had finished explaining it." :)
07:41:34 <meena> this is a bad commit message for this change https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=271243
07:41:38 <VimDiesel> Title: 271243 – sysutils/tuptime: Fix cron file
07:48:00 <vkarlsen> A bit confusing, yes. I had to look at the patch to understand what it meant.
09:11:39 <debdrup> meena: A more "correct" way to give feedback like that is to find the mail in the appopriate commits mailing list and grab the mbox file, then open it in your MUA and responding to the commiter that way.
09:12:58 <Demosthenex> ok, so /home, or /usr/home? ;]
09:13:08 <RhodiumToad>  /home
09:13:22 <Demosthenex> or third option, /usr/home with a symlink from /home
09:13:27 <RhodiumToad> but you have to create it yourself prior to creating any users
09:13:43 <RhodiumToad> the /home -> /usr/home symlink is evil
09:13:45 <Demosthenex> haha!
09:13:51 <Demosthenex> i do that often on clusters ;]
09:14:39 <debdrup> As an example, I committed something with a bit too little context, which got filed as https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/dev-commits-doc-all/2023-May/002008.html - and then did the above (except that I replied to the mailing list).
09:14:40 <VimDiesel> Title: git: e7be269af4 - main - Added missing -u flag to pdbedit
09:15:09 <debdrup> https://cgit.freebsd.org/src/tree/usr.sbin/pw/pw_user.c#n115 /usr/home according to this
09:15:10 <VimDiesel> Title: pw_user.c « pw « usr.sbin - src - FreeBSD source tree
09:15:30 <RhodiumToad> that's the evil I was speaking of
09:15:42 <debdrup> I don't understand why it's evil.
09:16:07 <debdrup> There are good reasons for it, outlined fairly cogently.
09:16:12 <RhodiumToad> there is one time where you want /home -> /usr/home, and that's when you're using ufs, multiple partitions, and no dedicated /home partition
09:16:23 <RhodiumToad> which, these days, is approximately nobody
09:17:01 <RhodiumToad> as long as you create /home yourself first, that code isn't used
09:18:51 <RhodiumToad> if you have actual human users, then you almost never want /home to be part of either / or /usr
09:19:54 <debdrup> On ZFS, it's zpool/usr/home because of boot environments - and it gets mounted as /usr/home/
09:20:03 <RhodiumToad> the only reason given in that comment is to put it in /usr rather than / if it comes down to a choice, since /usr is usually bigger if they are separate partitions
09:20:17 <debdrup> s/it\'s/the dataset/
09:20:23 <RhodiumToad> well that's just wrong
09:21:02 <meena> debdrup: i dunno if my MUA allows that, but i can try
09:21:38 <debdrup> meena: mutt and derivatives lets you use -f /path/to/mbox to open arbitrary mbox files
09:22:55 <debdrup> RhodiumToad: I don't think boot environments work without doing it like that.
09:25:08 <meena> debdrup: and apparently, i could totally use it with protonmail… https://brian-thompson.medium.com/setting-up-the-mutt-mail-client-with-protonmail-49c042486b3
09:25:09 <VimDiesel> Title: Setting up the Mutt mail client with Protonmail | by Brian Thompson | Medium
09:25:52 <RhodiumToad> there seems no reason why boot environments should care about /home any more than they care about any other random extra dataset that you might have
09:27:04 <debdrup> meena: neomutt has a bunch of rather nice additions
09:35:27 <Lovis_IX> Hello, I switch recently form Mutt to Neomutt. Seems Neomutt is fastter than Mutt and I agree, there is nice additions
09:59:21 <meena> debdrup: i've got thunderbird installed, and can open .eml files (fancy name for mbox). Would you reply-to-all or just to someone specific?
09:59:48 <debdrup> meena: Just reply to the committer
10:00:11 <RhodiumToad> not also to the list?
10:00:28 <meena> but then the question is which list…
10:00:58 <debdrup> Well, I typically do ^l which replies to a list if List-Post is defined in the headers..
10:02:10 <debdrup> meena: dev-commits-ports-main@
10:03:51 <meena> ate
10:03:57 <meena> aye, even
10:04:01 <meena> (i am hungry tho)
10:04:53 <meena> cool. I've got Thunderbird setup now to use my freebsd@ account
10:09:52 <meena> hrm… do I have to be subscribed to the list?
10:12:03 <debdrup> I'm pretty sure you have to be subscribed to every list to reply to it, but I'd recommend using the nomail unless you're following a particular tree closely (ie. using it for development).
10:12:19 <debdrup> s/nomail/nomail option/
10:14:11 <meena> debdrup: ports, not so much… src, yes, but i use FreshBSD as my eye on that
10:14:57 <debdrup> Yeah, I use freshports for src and ports, and am subscribed to the doc mailing list.
10:15:26 <debdrup> Err, freshbsd for src and freshports for ports (via an RSS feed)
10:16:23 <debdrup> https://www.freshports.org/backend/news.php?flavor=new only lists new ports.
10:16:24 <VimDiesel> Title: FreshPorts newsFreshPorts newsnews/py-sabctools - 7.0.1misc/py-torchvision - 0.15.2.r2misc/py-pytorch - 2.0.0devel/rubygem-rubocop-factory_bot - 2.22.0math/py-lrcalc - 2.1textproc/py-jupyter_sphinx - 0.3.2devel/py-pydantic-core - 0.28.0lang/scratch - 1.4.0.7x11/habak - 0.2.5graphics/py-colorthief - 0.2.1graphics/py-haishoku - 1.1.8devel/R-cran-timechange - 0.2.0math/octave-forge-octave-pool - 1.0.0emulators/qemu7 -  (1 more message)
10:17:35 <meena> debdrup: what about deprecated / deleted ports
10:18:02 <debdrup> meena: *shrug*
10:19:47 <debdrup> I'd suggest talking to Dan about it.
10:20:02 <debdrup> He's usually very receptive to feedback :)
10:30:53 <meena> https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/dev-commits-ports-main/2023-May/060041.html :( Thunderbird breaks threading :(
10:30:54 <VimDiesel> Title: Re: git: 2aedfff8a362 - main - sysutils/tuptime: Fix cron file
10:32:10 <yuripv> then you are using it wrong (somehow), it doesn't for me
10:32:37 <yuripv> did you reply to the actual message in the list?
10:46:15 <meena> yuripv: i downloaded the message, and then hit: reply-to-list
10:48:12 <yuripv> so it's missing the message ids it can use, not a thunderbird fault
10:49:30 <meena> yuripv:  https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/dev-commits-ports-main/2023-May/060018.txt this seems to have everything needed
10:49:48 <meena> Message-Id: <202305080736.3487asix068025⊙gfo>
10:59:54 <yuripv> i also don't see user-agent in your reply, your smtp relay stripping too much?
11:03:53 <yuripv> you could use test⊙Fo mailing list to check
11:07:10 <meena> do i have to subscribe to that one as well?
11:07:55 <yuripv> no idea, just try, you can spam it however you want :D
11:55:35 <debdrup> meena: the in-reply-to header item is what controls threading in mlmmj I think
11:56:43 <debdrup> also yeah, it might also be the smtp
11:57:15 <debdrup> https://www.pixelbeat.org/docs/thunderbird-threading.html
11:57:16 <VimDiesel> Title: Responding correctly to threads in Thunderbird
11:57:52 <debdrup> That looks like the thing you want.
11:59:13 <debdrup> https://www.jwz.org/doc/threading.html this is the original source for the standard
11:59:15 <VimDiesel> Title: message threading
11:59:24 <debdrup> ..oh, that's mentioned in the article, too.
12:07:15 <meena> https://github.com/ProtonMail/proton-bridge/issues/122
12:07:16 <VimDiesel> Title: In-Reply-To header being removed if no References header is present · Issue #122 · ProtonMail/proton-bridge · GitHub
12:33:02 <uskerine> hi, I am reading about the Ghostscript API, it says you need to include the header (and likely the library).
12:33:31 <uskerine> the header is gsapi.h, any tip on where/how to search which packate does have this header?
12:37:32 <RhodiumToad> gsapi.h? for what version? I see an iapi.h
12:38:46 <RhodiumToad> /usr/local/include/ghostscript/iapi.h was installed by package ghostscript9-agpl-base-9.56.1_10
12:39:19 <RhodiumToad> more generally, the pkg-provides package allows you to look up what packages contain any given file
12:51:34 <uskerine> Thanks RhodiumToad , are you suggesting that gsapi.h is actually iapi.h?
12:52:23 <meena> gsapi is Kerberos stuff
12:53:28 <RhodiumToad> gssapi is kerberos-related
12:53:35 <uskerine> As far as I am reading in ChatGPT (could be totally wrong), iapi.h is the low level, and gsapi.h is the actual API to use when embbedding Ghostscript in an application
12:53:38 <RhodiumToad> I don't seem to have a gsapi.h
12:54:18 <RhodiumToad> ... why are you reading anything from chatgpt?
12:55:57 <uskerine> Sometimes it says something
12:56:17 <uskerine> I am reading iapi.h and it seems it has the functions I am looking for
12:59:57 <uskerine> I guess it is time to read the API documentation at Ghostscript
13:00:45 <uskerine> Thanks RhodiumToad
13:01:53 <meena> 13:54 <RhodiumToad> ... why are you reading anything from chatgpt? ⬅️ why indeed…
14:46:14 <gzar> hey folks. turns out i had dtrace enabled
14:46:38 <gzar> so if you want Rhodiumtoad i can do some further poking
15:31:23 <rogersm> what is the preferred fw for Freebsd? ipfw?
15:35:05 <llua> the one with the features you want
15:45:56 * RhodiumToad likes ipfw, but pf has many adherents
15:54:53 <mason> There's still ipf.
16:06:40 <Schamschula> I'm not sure why apache24 has started quitting on its own. It has happened three times since I upgraded to 13.2. It never happened before (back to 10.x).
16:11:03 <rwp> Schamschula, Is it on the public Internet where it gets network abuse from external influence? Anything in the error log? Could it be running out of virtual memory? I monitor Apache and restart it with "monit".
16:15:59 <Schamschula> rwp: Publicly accessible, but content is not exposed. Unfortunately, the error log has rolled over with the last restart. I'll have to change the configuration to keep a few older logs.
16:31:46 <yuripv> if it's crashing, there should be a message in system log
16:33:46 <Schamschula> kernel: pid 14922 (httpd), jid 0, uid 0: exited on signal 4 (core dumped)
16:35:17 <meena> Schamschula: and, is there a core?
16:35:28 <debdrup> Mmm, core files.
16:35:36 <Schamschula> Looking for them
16:35:45 <debdrup> ..although they won't do much good without debugging symbols.
16:36:48 <meena> https://httpd.apache.org/docs/current/mod/mpm_common.html#coredumpdirectory
16:36:49 <VimDiesel> Title: mpm_common - Apache HTTP Server Version 2.4
16:37:10 <Schamschula> I seen nothing in /var/crash
16:37:33 <meena> that's where kernel crashsumps end up in
16:37:57 <meena> demons are a bit tricky, because they usually cd to /
16:39:00 <meena> but nothing can (hopefully) write to / other than root, and apache just starts as root, it doesn't do any real work as root
16:40:01 <Schamschula> Apparently, I have to set kern.sugid_coredump to 1. Unfortunately, the module documentation is unclear on how to do that.
16:40:35 <debdrup> sysctl(8)
16:40:53 <meena> https://man.freebsd.org/core(5) has info on how to generally collect coredumps, which isn't Apache Httpd specific
16:40:54 <VimDiesel> Title: core(5)
16:44:31 <Schamschula> I set `sysctl kern.sugid_coredump=1` Hopefully, next time it happens there'll be bit to go on.
16:48:26 <debdrup> You might want to set the value in sysctl.conf(5), if you want it to persist across reboots.
16:51:10 <Schamschula> debdrup: done
16:53:49 <debdrup> Schamschula: also, like I said, you want debugging symbols - which means you need to build apache (and possibly everything that hooks into it) with debugging symbols. Check https://wiki.freebsd.org/DebuggingPorts
16:53:50 <VimDiesel> Title: DebuggingPorts - FreeBSD Wiki
17:07:17 <complexnumber> Hello, when setting up an NFS server, instead of listing clients by individual IP can I use CIDR notation to allow anyone in the range of IP addresses to connect to the NFS server?
17:08:20 <pstef> yuripv: strange coincidence, I was looking at enable_altgr just yesterday. I wondered why it didn't work while enabled by default. From your commit it seems it is off by default, is that right?
17:08:30 <debdrup> complexnumber: That's covered in exports(5).
17:08:40 <complexnumber> thank you, will look it up now
17:12:28 <debdrup> https://freshbsd.org/freebsd/src/commit/7e0f8b79b77 woo!
17:12:29 <VimDiesel> Title: FreeBSD / src / 7e0f8b7 / Add mrsasutil(8) as alias to mfiutil(8) - FreshBSD
17:28:37 * V_PauAmma_V is briefly disconcerted by MRSA in that name.
18:01:35 <rwp> Schamschula, Also look at the apache access.log to see what was happening right up to when it crashed.  Can be a clue there.  Also if using the PHP module it might be PHP crashing instead of Apache.
19:00:06 <yuripv> pstef: no, it's enabled by default, i was looking at the forums post asking how to make right alt behave like left one
19:00:54 <Schamschula> rwp: found the culprit: my log rotation script. Now, I need to figure out why that suddenly no longer works correctly.
19:05:57 <Schamschula> It looks like using apachectl to do a graceful restart might not be the best way to restart httpd. We'll see if using service apache24 will fix this.
19:15:15 <rwp> Schamschula, Yay for finding the root of the problem. But "apachectl graceful" is the normal thing to do. If that is causing a crash then that's the bug source.
19:21:25 <VVD> ScentedFern, log rotate - kill -30
19:21:51 <VVD> 30 is USR1
19:22:48 <VVD> Do you have crash apache24 during logrotate?
19:24:20 <VVD> If yes and you are using mod_php, then check this: https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=268318
19:24:22 <VimDiesel> Title: 268318 – www/apache24 with www/mod_php82: opcache + ASLR turned on crashes Apache
19:24:49 <VVD> Schamschula
19:25:35 <pstef> yuripv: ah. I thought after your recent commit the page doesn't say but seems to suggest that the sysctl defaults to 0
19:26:28 <Freaky> Schamschula: Apache ships with a rotatelogs command you can have it pipe to, saves having to kick Apache every cycle
19:26:34 <yuripv> pstef: i was looking at enable_bell, it's 0 by default and page says =1, so i used the inverse logic :)
19:26:58 <pstef> hmm, maybe you're right
19:27:30 <yuripv> but the kbd_* ones show the default (i'd just remove the =N part from synopsis)
19:27:50 <pstef> altgr=1 doesn't seem to work for me in VT anyway, but I'll leave that one for some other time
19:28:10 <yuripv> pstef: with which keymap?
19:28:44 <pstef> I just added a hack to clear color inversion of selected text when screen changes and diff is non-zero, but I haven't checked if that works :)
19:29:02 <pstef> no idea about the keymap, I wasn't even aware
19:29:27 <yuripv> in some keymaps altgr acts e.g. as layout switch
19:35:45 <yuripv> just tried the pl.kbd, altgr seems to work there