00:00:12 uff, we still have stuff depending on llvm10? 00:00:30 so that means id have to install llvm12 to 16 00:00:39 unless i really need newer llvms? 00:01:00 firefox-112.0.1,2 llvm13-13.0.1_3 00:01:04 jbo: oh you mean the feature i've been waiting for on gentoo for years? nice :D 00:01:05 well, ports depend on stuff (both for building and actually running the resulting binaries). some ports require different llvm versions. hence you want to fetch them rather than building them yourself. 00:01:23 ixmpp, welcome to the world of freebsd ;-) 00:01:33 although i wager my adding debug flags would preclude that 00:01:33 i c 00:01:52 ixmpp, exactly. BUT poudriere will be smart enough to figure that out. 00:01:59 another feature that portmaster lacks :p 00:02:09 hmm 00:02:25 jbo: not sure about llvm10. I thought lang/ghc was going to need it, but it's not in the deps list. 00:02:29 so portmaster is outdated, poudriere all the way? 00:02:54 RhodiumToad, if you have the poudriere dashboard available it should tell you why it is building llvm10 00:03:08 for anybody new: poudriere all the way. 00:03:10 I know why, it's because I put it in the list :-) 00:03:18 RhodiumToad, I didn't dare to say/ask :p 00:03:37 welp, found out my pc was using 12 gigs out of its ram and it was all firefox's fault 00:03:50 RhodiumToad: Nice, LLVM is like Pokemon - catch them all! 00:03:58 was it firefox's fault or the fact that browsing a modern web page requires 1GB of memory? 00:04:03 mason, :D 00:04:05 it then crashed and ram usage wnet down to just 4gb 00:04:25 and yeah i was with like a dozen tabs of Modern Websites 00:04:40 doesn't sound like firefox's fault then. 00:06:39 ISTR at one point FF (for a single process) showing memory use larger than host RAM+swap. 00:07:00 it occurs to me that gentoo's slots system is a steep overcomplication when i think about how ports does things 00:07:10 it looks nicer though :p 00:07:17 ah. ghc requires llvm10 on arm 00:07:33 but apparently not on amd64 00:08:12 ixmpp, so you're a gentoo user? are you ready for a fun read (but slightly painful)? 00:08:22 ha, sure 00:08:25 https://www.shlomifish.org/humour/by-others/funroll-loops/Gentoo-is-Rice.html 00:08:26 Title: Welcome to Gentoo is Rice, the Volume goes to 11 here. 00:08:33 oh god 00:09:00 jbo: Was that his originally or did he just copy funroll.loops? 00:09:19 (or whatever the site was) 00:09:22 ok i'll take the hit, but to be clear, i don't think anyone uses gentoo for speed 00:09:25 :D 00:09:29 mason, no idea. I haven't been around for long enough. afaik it's just quotes the person collected over the years from fora, irc etc. 00:09:42 jbo: that used to be a standalone web site 00:09:51 ixmpp, I don't judge - just wanted to share what gave me a good laugh :) 00:10:08 mason, that sounds like fun 00:10:18 jbo: https://web.archive.org/web/20080702015125/http://funroll-loops.info/ 00:10:20 Title: Welcome to Gentoo is Rice, the Volume goes to 11 here. 00:10:44 Worth archiving, of course. 00:10:47 mason, really no idea - might be the same dude with different website. I really don't have a clue. 00:11:08 @mason archive everything you find 00:11:25 I'm going to go archive dinner, right now. o/ 00:11:33 well, i dont have space to archive it all so i just archived anything i find involving parappa the rapper, but archiving a few things is better than not archiving 00:11:36 and cya 00:11:41 it does have some gold in there tho 00:11:42 > Yea, I really don't understand all the complaints about the time to install gentoo. It is like complaining about your Ferrari because the dealership was so far away. 00:13:57 also, forgot, does poudriere have a feature to apply patches to packages? thats a feature of gentoo i absolutely love 00:14:25 that and savedconfig 00:14:27 if you want to do your own patches, you put them in the port 00:14:35 but both can be done better 00:14:52 it's easy with git to maintain your own branch of the ports tree with your own changes 00:14:58 RhodiumToad: oh! and because theyre untracked - yeah 00:15:15 i knew you guys would do it better somehow 00:15:22 ixmpp, patches are handled by the port system itself. 00:15:32 aye, too slow. sorry. 00:16:23 this is why i keep wishing i could use this on desktop, but there is so much friction with the hardware... 00:16:32 ixmpp, not everything we do is better tho. we just try really hard whenever possible :> 00:16:35 but freebsd is the way 00:17:18 maybe you can get a cheap 2nd hand replacement laptop? Lenovo Thinkpads are generally very well supported. 00:17:58 might be realistic eventually 00:24:25 I'm trying to run a Linux binary but it's complaining about not finding ld-linux-x86-64.so.2 : do I need to setup the CentOS Base System as well ? 00:24:31 right now I just did service linux start 00:25:07 yep, that was it: pkg install linux_base-c7 00:25:19 jup 00:25:57 the linux service only starts the linuxulator layer 00:26:10 if your linux binary depends on other stuff you have to take care of that 00:27:40 my app does come with some library dependencies, some .so files that shipped with it 00:28:00 I placed them in /usr/local/lib/solidigm and ran ldconfig -m /usr/local/lib/solidigm but I guess that won't work for Linux libs ? 00:28:39 for linux libs you have to run the linux version of ldconfig 00:28:50 chroot into the c7 00:28:54 then do ldconfig in there 00:29:54 you don't need the chroot, but you might need a -C filename option to make sure you update the right file 00:31:01 the libraries should probably go in /compat/linux/usr/... rather than under /usr 00:32:24 I have a linux printer driver, what I did was just stick the .so it needs under /compat/linux/usr/lib64 00:34:02 yep, I did that, but it turns out I also had to guess the correct subdir 00:34:17 so in this case it wanted /compat/linux/usr/lib/solidigm 00:35:55 it might not be enough. this is the Intel/Solidigm SSD firmware update tool 00:36:11 on Linux I can get it to work by specifying -ssd X , aka -ssd 0 for the first drive 00:36:42 on FreeBSD it says: Error: Invalid drive identifier , maybe it can't run under emulation ? 00:37:06 oh, that will surely require some more magic. 00:37:14 might be better of just running a live linux system and upgrading firmware that way. 00:37:24 i wish lldb was more comfortable to use than gdb 00:37:34 ?! 00:37:38 but for me at least, nope 00:38:00 ixmpp, https://lldb.llvm.org/use/map.html 00:38:00 I'm trying not to use Linux at all :) 00:38:01 Title: GDB to LLDB command map — The LLDB Debugger 00:38:13 last1, if you use the linuxulator you are using linux x) 00:38:25 linux-c7 is literally a linux base 00:39:55 but it's probably looking for different devices in /dev or something ? 00:40:23 wow, theres more than i thought there was in lldb 00:40:51 ixmpp, what did you expect? llvm is a fully fleged compiler suite. just like gcc. but different. 00:40:59 might give it a try again someday 00:41:06 i've tried it before 00:41:14 it was ...painful 00:41:23 seems like a problem on your end :) 00:41:43 well, granted, it is like learning a whole new language 00:41:54 it's like learning a whole new CLI. 00:42:01 ok yes 00:42:25 this just seems like typical linux mentallity to me (really, no offense at all) 00:42:36 "it's different therefore it's bad" 00:42:52 and that from a community that is as fragmented as linux :o 00:42:58 no, im not saying its bad (anymore, now i know its as feature complete) 00:43:07 but it will still be hard to relearn 00:43:15 imagine i took vim from you 00:43:39 and you had to learn ...kakoune(?) or some other nonsense 00:43:48 so? I'd just learn whatever you give me instead. I'd start by reading the docs. I would not just blindly assume that it can't do a certain thing and throw that oppinion out in the world. 00:43:50 would hurt, right? 00:44:03 no. it wouldn't. just read docs, adapt and then make your mind up. 00:44:18 I might find that kakoune does something nicer than vim 00:45:25 im fairly sure i did at least try, when it came to lldb, but like you said earlier today(!) if it's not obviously better, why switch? and the gdb cli is more visibly complete, so do you blame me? 00:46:04 well, I get your point, but you're misusing my statement in a different context. here the difference is that if you want to use freebsd you better get used to clang because that is the base compiler :) 00:46:36 which is why im reconsidering it :p 00:47:17 you're free to choose. we have plenty of linux folks coming by because they get fed up with linux for various reasons, consider, maybe even try freebsd and then move away. some stay, some go away. that's everybodys freedom :) 00:47:32 if you want to stay & learn, the community will gladly help. if you determine that it's not for you - that's fine too! 00:47:51 I certainly don't miss GCC the same way I don't miss systemd :p 00:47:54 i've been using freebsd some time 00:48:01 on server only though 00:48:17 that's fine too 00:48:22 but i do still use linux, and by extension gcc 00:48:31 which is fine too 00:49:10 anyway im here to stay, just been more active lately cause linux crap has driven me to want freebsd desktop more and more 00:49:29 that is fine too :p 00:54:06 speaking of fragmentation, there's that chimera-linux too... fbsd userland, llvm, linux kernel, specific opinions... 00:56:02 that sounds like a nightmare to maintain 00:56:13 I'd argue it's a symptom of the underlying problem :p 00:56:34 just use (Free)BSD and use linux emulation or a VM if needed? 00:56:51 both nice & funny to see that it is using pipewire tho 00:58:02 moonshine: there was a gentoo/kfreebsd, and i think the debian one still exists 00:58:10 arch too irc 00:58:11 yeah the debian one still exists. 00:58:12 iirc 00:58:42 my server survives fine with bhyve vms 00:59:07 but thats cause all it needs is network and a userland, really 01:04:42 while we're on about the linux->bsd migration, the one thing that seems the most frictionful (aside from the change of toolchain) is that the bsd coreutils are much stricter on argument order 01:04:51 i'm actually not complaining, cause that is just something to get used to 01:04:54 but its interesting to note 01:05:20 i wish i'd started on a bsd now, because it works in the other direction, but not this one 01:05:44 (actually, my first non-windows OS was netBSD, but only briefly) 01:09:31 to be precise, the BSD utils don't follow the GNU-ism of allowing arguments to precede options 01:09:43 so it's command [options] [--] [arguments] 01:09:57 yeah 01:11:51 the GNU style can be very annoying from a shell scripting point of view 01:12:30 (since you have to worry even more about substitutions starting with - than in the normal case) 01:17:55 anyone used zpool remove command ? (https://man.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?query=zpool-remove&sektion=8&manpath=freebsd-release-ports) and can comment on how well it works ? 01:17:56 Title: zpool-remove(8) 01:36:50 <_xor> RhodiumToad: I dear god, I've been having to deal with that quite a bit lately. 01:36:53 <_xor> I despise it. 01:37:11 <_xor> *Oh dear god 01:37:45 <_xor> I actually use this pretty heavily these days because it's at least consistent and cross-platform, plus adds some functions useful for scripting... 01:37:47 <_xor> https://github.com/go-task/task 01:37:48 Title: GitHub - go-task/task: A task runner / simpler Make alternative written in Go 01:39:02 <_xor> It integrates this lib, which works across FreeBSD, Linux, macOS, Windows, etc... 01:39:03 <_xor> https://github.com/mvdan/sh 01:39:04 Title: GitHub - mvdan/sh: A shell parser, formatter, and interpreter with bash support; includes shfmt 01:40:47 <_xor> Oh yeah, btw, do poudriere overlay trees still work without using ZFS? (maybe it uses unionfs or something instead of doing a zfs overlay mount?) 01:40:59 what's a good gcc version these days? 01:41:48 <_xor> I've been using poudriere overlay trees, but might have to switch to a single tree with multiple branches that get rebased instead of just using overlay if non-ZFS poudriere doesn't work with them. 01:42:53 <_xor> Don't know what's considered good, but I've not had too much trouble using 12.x whenever something requires it. 01:43:04 I haven't tried overlays myself 01:43:22 <_xor> I've been using this for quite a while and love it: https://github.com/jdxcode/rtx 01:43:22 I just have one ports tree 01:43:24 Title: GitHub - jdxcode/rtx: Runtime Executor (asdf rust clone) 01:44:04 <_xor> There's a port for it now too (had an internal port I whipped up, might get rid of it in favor of upstream, though this project has a new release like every other day, so to keep up I might stick with my own port): https://www.freshports.org/sysutils/rtx/ 01:44:05 Title: FreshPorts -- sysutils/rtx: Runtime Executor (asdf rust clone) 01:44:47 <_xor> Works really well though for generically installing & switching between side-by-side multiple-version installs of apps (which includes gcc in my case too). 01:45:10 <_xor> User installs too, so root perms are a requirement. 01:46:05 <_xor> Re: Overlays, I like them because I just had fewer merge conflicts to deal with when updating main tree ports to new versions or making minor fixes. Just had to keep an eye on updates as they became available. 01:47:13 <_xor> Oops, root perms are NOT a requirement is what I meant. 01:49:19 <_xor> There's probably a better way to do this or a port made to switch between versions of LLVM, but I also use rtx when switching between LLVM versions (if required), since it's installed in /usr/local/llvm${MAJOR_VER} by default so as to not conflict with the base install. 01:51:10 <_xor> I had trouble with clangd, though I didn't really look for the C++ equivalent of javavmwrapper. It was just easier to do `rtx install llvm@${VER}` and then either create .tool-versions (or .rtx.toml) or do `rtx global llvm@${VER}` 01:53:57 <_xor> I also use it for PostgreSQL to have 13.x, 14.x, & 15.x installed. Helps when doing major version upgrades and if pg_* are needed from both old and new versions. 01:56:51 sounds nix-y 01:57:03 but without the pain of having to use nix 01:57:10 <_xor> I tried nix, but it was such a PITA. 01:57:12 (-os) 01:57:13 <_xor> Yeah 01:58:35 <_xor> rtx is a clone of asdf. I tried asdf a long while ago as a replacement for pyenv/nvm/etc, but it's implemented in bash and was pretty Linux-centric, so the trade-offs weren't worth it. 01:59:11 <_xor> rtx is an asdf clone with additional functionality and implemented in rust (yeah yeah, I know)...but it has worked beautifuly for me so far. 02:06:22 another thing im glad for in freebsd hah, the rust fanaticism isnt present in this community 02:06:54 i dont hate rust, but the hype is unreal and its not imo remotely worth it 02:07:46 <_xor> I like rust quite a bit, but that's for my usage of it. It's a trade-off like anything else, and so yeah, the evangalism can get annoying. 03:04:11 veg, Good luck with your array! 03:14:57 ntpd doesn't stay running gon 13.2-release 03:15:08 there's not log message in /var/log i can find about this 03:15:19 anybody else experience this? 03:16:49 sfox: what settings do you have in rc.conf for it? 03:16:58 sfox, Are you using -g with it? See the ntpd_sync_on_start rc.conf variable. 03:17:04 sfox: in particular, have you set ntpd_sync_on_start? 03:17:07 just the stuff from the installer, ntpd_enable="YES" 03:17:31 Add ntpd_sync_on_start="YES" to solve the problem. That's normally needed. 03:17:39 without ntpd_sync_on_start, ntpd will exit if the clock is wrong by more than some threshold 03:17:42 ok 03:17:50 can i fix this without rebooting the server? 03:18:07 with it, then as soon as ntpd is synced up to an external source, it'll step the clock (once only) 03:18:10 sure 03:18:14 Yes. Set the variable. Then restart ntp. "service ntp start" 03:18:24 oh 03:18:40 Sorry, it's "service ntpd start" 03:18:53 ntpd_sync_on_start="YES" 03:18:56 right? 03:19:03 Yes. 03:19:04 btw, it's good to make sure that you have "iburst" set in ntp.conf for your best timeserver entries 03:19:06 thankyou 03:19:21 i just left it at the default when i installed freebsd 13.1 03:19:28 it has iburst 03:19:34 that's good 03:19:36 +1 on iburst but that should be the default already. "pool 0.freebsd.pool.ntp.org iburst" 03:20:44 Also, the documentation for "man rc.conf" then search down for /ntp and will see all of the options along with ntpd_sync_on_start we are recommending. 03:21:31 thankyou 03:27:15 RhodiumToad, It was fun teaming up with you on ntpd -g! ( o/ ) 03:37:34 cange of gears for a second, i wanted to ask what the general consensus was on iocage 03:37:56 with it now being unmaintained, there doesn't appear to be a replacement for it yet 03:38:07 jailer explicity says not to use it in production 03:38:24 I really need to update my jails to the latest minor release 13.2 03:38:40 iocage upgrade is broken 03:38:49 I know M. Lucas recommends iocage in his FreeBSD books but so far I have not used it myself yet. I like working down in the dirt. 03:38:59 I can't do it inside the jail as it complains about the security level 03:39:26 assuming I can lower the security level of the jail and use freebsd-update without further issues, would there be any problem doing this manually this way 03:39:36 and updating the config file afterwards by hand for the jails 03:39:52 rwp, I read Lucas's book too 03:39:53 "inside the jail 03:40:09 I ended up migrating from ezjail to iocage 03:40:10 "inside the jail" confuses me as iocage is used *outside* the jail to manage the datasets. 03:40:31 i mean iocage console jailname, and from a shell running inside the jail run freebsd-update 03:40:57 So it is the freebsd-update inside the jail which is failing? What are the errors you are encountering? 03:41:52 iocage upgrade -r 13.2-RELEASE mumble works, but it has me having to resolve merge conflicts of every update file in /etc/ 03:41:59 files that should just be replaced 03:42:04 but there's no option to replace them 03:43:04 That does not seem like an iocage problem as such. Can you console shell into the jail and run freebsd-update from the shell level? 03:43:25 https://paste.debian.net/plain/1277584 03:43:31 I haven't upgraded to the new 13.2R myself yet. Makes me want to try it immediately in a victim VM and see if I have similar problems. 03:43:43 rwp, no when i do so it says the security level is too high to run freebsd-update 03:44:44 Thank you for the paste. The devil is in the details and that shows them most clearly. 03:45:19 I admit that this is beyond my day to day level of knowledge. I have so far only used jails here and there and I don't know enough here. 03:45:51 The security level is tickling some brain cells but I think I have not restricted my own jails such and so have not run into this problem myself before. 03:47:10 i don't believe i did any additiona hardening of the jails 03:47:19 just set them up as 'thick' jails 03:47:24 without vnet 03:47:53 the good news is that iocage zfs snapshots your jail before upgrading 03:48:03 I know there is also the "freebsd-update -j jail" option too. I am the blind here leading the blind maybe but perhaps that would upgrade your jail for you? Warning! I don't know what I am doing here. 03:48:08 so i can roll back to a consistent state and not have a half-way-inbetween upgraded jail 03:48:20 i'll try that and report 03:53:11 iocage seems popular, but bhyve seems simpler for the same perks, am i wrong? 03:53:14 it's doing it's thing now: # freebsd-update -j 11 upgrade -r 13.2-RELEASE 03:53:33 ixmpp, isn't bhyve virtualization not jailing? 03:53:55 bhyve is full virtualization, yes 03:53:57 oh sorry, im thinking of ...what is it, iohyve 03:54:06 i've read online that FreeBSD administrators typiclly avoid upgrading to -p0 releases waiting for a -p1 03:54:17 maybe that is what I should have done 03:54:21 misinterpreted, ignore me 03:54:54 crap 03:54:59 it broke this way too 03:55:30 Well... It's 13.2R so already past the .1 release. So probably okay on the p0 front. But this does not "feel" like a p0 problem but more like something else. 03:55:34 rwp, https://paste.debian.net/plain/1277586 03:56:59 Hmm... I should create a victim VM and then walk through an upgrade to 13.2R. Sorry. I haven't done it yet. 03:57:56 it's currently at 13.1-RELEASE-p7 03:59:37 My victim VM is at 12.4-RELEASE right now. I'll upgrade it to 13.1-RELEASE first. Then do the next step and see if it also wants to merge config files or not. 04:03:00 alright 04:03:03 i'll be here 04:03:12 i'm going to rollback that jail again 04:03:21 unless somebody else has something to try before I do 04:30:39 rwp, you might be interested to know this doesn't happen to all jails 04:31:07 i was able to update another jail on the same release, and it had to download a lot more patches. on the order of 14,000+ 04:31:11 My VM is almost finished upgrading to 13.1R. 04:31:19 5f4de655-1d4f-4f61-8ab0-6c1937d7745b successfully upgraded from 13.1-RELEASE-p7 to 13.2-RELEASE! 04:31:36 i'm not really sure what it's getting hung up at 04:32:00 the only difference is that i stopped the jail, cloned it, and performed the upgrade while the jail was still off 04:32:32 It just finished. It took all of that time to get from 12.4R to 13.1R. Starting the upgrade to 13.2R now. 04:33:18 On the major upgrade the only files that needed merged were passwd and sshd_config and I recall one other trivial one. 04:33:32 yeah that's normal 04:33:54 /etc/passwd will need a look over if it 'looks reasonable' when the 13.1 -> 13.2 upgrade is working properly 04:34:09 and maybe ssd_config's banner 04:34:10 FWIW my VM is a 32-bit system so 13.1-RELEASE-p3 is the latest instead of -p6 and that confused me momentarily. 04:34:48 There are always comments which have changed in these files. 04:34:53 you'll know it's not working properly if it drops you into vi to resolve a merge conflict with /etc/mtree/ 04:35:31 "Fetching 4945 patches....." so heading into the next half hour of downloads and upgrades before I know anything more. 04:36:32 No updates needed to update system to 13.2-RELEASE-p0. 04:36:32 No updates are available to install. 04:36:32 Run '/tmp/tmpbf5toe6a fetch' first 04:36:46 can i ignore the run /tmp/whatever ? 04:37:50 I am shocked by the message to run /tmp/tmpbf5toe6a fetch as that just seems really odd. 04:38:37 it looks similar to freebsd-update but it's not 04:38:46 the sha256sums are different 04:39:00 You could diff the scripts. 04:39:26 that's output from iocage update --pkgs 5f4de655-1d4f-4f61-8ab0-6c1937d7745b 04:39:55 Ah... It's an iocage thing. That would be less shocking. 04:41:04 it looks like a slightly less complete version of freebsd-update with some defaults changed like not creating a zfs bootenv 04:41:24 some minor string changes like: 04:41:34 < See https://www.freebsd.org/platforms/ for more info. 04:41:35 > See https://www.freebsd.org/platforms/index.html for more info. 04:41:36 Title: Platforms | The FreeBSD Project 04:41:37 Title: Platforms | The FreeBSD Project 04:42:15 rwp, do you know if turning the jail off while doing the upgrade had any effect? 04:42:42 Do I know if stopping a jail kills all processes running in it? I don't know. I would guess that it would. 04:43:32 i'll test that 04:44:05 no i mean having the jail be off before running iocage upgrade or running iocage upgrade while the jail is on 04:45:08 The merge part of the upgrade from 13.1R to 13.2R just started and completed wanting me to merge only /etd/passwd and /etc/ssh/sshd_config and no other files. 04:45:22 lucky you 04:46:47 The merge of /etc/passwd seemed confused about one thing. I normally run root using /usr/local/bin/bash but I always change that to /bin/tcsh before major upgrades. After having locked myself out on a previous upgrade I learned that lesson. Ports might be broken. 04:48:02 I did that and then it remembered my bash choice and forgot that it should be tcsh. And logging in it is back to bash again. Fortunately not locked out. 04:49:21 I had run chsh to make the change so it should have updated the passwd database okay. Strange events. 04:49:53 um 04:50:09 I miss the days before they made passwd into a database. There is miniscule performance difference and the flat files are simple. 04:50:11 it shouldn't be editing /etc/passwd manually or letting you do it - that's a generated file 04:50:27 only /etc/master.passwd should be edited 04:50:38 > "I had run chsh to make the change"... That should be updating the database. 04:51:01 yes, chsh will update /etc/passwd, /etc/pwd.db etc. from master.passwd 04:52:22 Rebooted and the VM is full up to date both base and ports and it was quite simple. If somewhat tedious to wait for it and watch it spin. 04:54:27 And that's all I know. 04:54:29 I am thinking sfox that something in that particular jail smashed the systems idea of what were the core files and therefore it now thinks all of them are modified and must be merged. 04:54:41 But it is late here so I must bid everyone a Good Night! Good luck sfox! 04:55:43 rwp one more question before you head off 04:56:21 did you upgrade sequentially through every point release or did you go directly from 12.x to 13.2? 04:56:43 thanks for helping me 04:59:18 I upgraded from 12.4 to 13.1R first. Then from 13.1R to 13.2R. 04:59:46 thanks 05:00:09 goodnight 05:01:20 I could only share your pain. I had no real help. But I am thinking that whatever is used to know if files have changes has been smashed in your jail and therefore it now thinks all files have changed. 05:02:57 I think you should create a fresh jail for 13.1R and then upgrade it to 13.2R and will find that it works okay. 05:03:15 Then can create another 13.1R and then compare the files in the two jails and figure out what is different. 05:03:41 When the jail is stopped the files are just files on disk. I think you should be able to fix up the broken jail and then it will be fine. 05:04:06 + Removing jail process FAILED: 05:04:06 jail: ioc-web3: mount.fdescfs: /zroot/iocage/jails/web3/root/dev/fd: not a mount point 05:04:08 Or you could just create a new jail for your whatever task you are using it for and then not worry about it. 05:04:13 started back up though 05:04:33 thanks for the advice rwp 05:04:41 hopefully not too many of my jails are screwed up like this 05:04:50 The /dev/fd is the file descriptor mount point. Not normally mounted by default. But available to be enabled if needed. 05:04:58 I don't normally enable it. But I know others that do. 05:05:28 rwp by the way i upgraded production web3 while it was on 05:05:30 it worked 05:05:48 besides that fdescfs error, even package upgrades worked 05:05:51 and that weird tmp file 05:06:00 Woot! And then you know that it isn't a global problem with all of your systems but just something broken on that one jail. 05:06:11 well several jails are like this 05:06:15 but not all of them 07:53:52 AH! 07:54:11 you know what!? I think the jails having problems with the upgrade where jails migrating from ezjail to iocage 07:56:21 also freebsd-update IDS complains a lot 07:57:14 about what 08:05:22 https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=270722 08:05:25 Title: 270722 – net/syncthing: Update to 1.23.4 08:05:34 when will this be available to latest 13.1 ? 08:11:53 meena, almost every system file being different then the expected hash 08:12:19 is it possible to just ... reinstall a freebsd release ontop of an existing install to fix it? 08:41:29 <_xor> Hmm, I may have to use this irc client instead heh. 09:34:41 jbo; if you want closure, i tried booting that laptop again with a liveusb, and it turns out not even the network card registers, so its a yikes on my count and i remember why i never tried this earlie 10:26:16 are there any good youtube channels for more technical/development stuff about freebsd? the most popular ones seem to be just user stuff (configs, running programs, etc) 10:50:42 youtube is mainly 101 stuff even for linux videos 10:51:23 you'd probably be better off with books for what your looking for 11:05:47 trev: i reckon the devsumits, so far as they are taped, would be the place to go looking for that 11:06:08 tho me bsdcon talks tend to get very technical, too 11:07:29 sfox: yeah probably need to read something. just i was looking for stuff to passively listen to while doing tedious work 11:11:09 something like fasterthanlime, but less entertaining, given that it's supposed to be background chatter 11:13:44 he writes very long blogs 11:14:51 I do wonder if people design their talks with YouTube in mind these days: "this is a one hour talk that you can put on in the background, tuning in and out.", "this is a twenty minute deep dive, that has you at the edge of your seat", "this is a ten minute wtf demo", "this is a five minute funny one, you'll probably watch it on the loo, don't try 11:14:51 to laugh too hard, but your colleagues know what you're doing anyway" 11:18:59 their incentivized to only brush over topics with what they can fit on a powepoint 11:19:07 yes most likely, since society seems to be diverging in that direction 11:20:09 maybe i should be looking for something too technical, while passively listening, but the channels i found are extremely dull (no offense if any freebsd youtubers are idling) 11:20:30 i watch on 2.0x speed to see if there's anything of value 13:29:16 when an app in ports is available as compiled app in repo ? 13:29:22 https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=270892 13:29:24 Title: 270892 – net/syncthing: update to v1.22.1 at least 13:33:25 as "binary package" 13:35:14 eoli3n: probably a week 13:36:07 ok, it was done 6 days ago : https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=270722 13:36:10 Title: 270722 – net/syncthing: Update to 1.23.4 13:41:22 eoli3n: build it from ports if you're in a hurry 13:43:46 imm_: i don't want to install ports in that jail, i'll wait 13:44:10 eoli3n: build a package on host and install the binary in the jail 13:44:48 waiting is an option, i'll take it :) 13:47:18 let's do it for the science 13:52:26 imm_: can I produce a .pkg ? 13:53:10 eoli3n: yes 13:53:21 where is this documented ? 13:57:09 https://man.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?query=pkg-create&sektion=8&manpath=freebsd-release-ports 13:57:11 Title: pkg-create(8) 13:58:16 see pkg(7) 13:58:25 package target 13:59:53 meena: line numbers now disabled on small displays 14:04:56 imm_: pkg only creates a pkg for an installed package 14:05:02 the package is installed in the jail 14:05:06 not on the host 14:09:33 https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/where-does-make-package-put-the-pkg-file.73535/ 14:09:35 Title: Solved - Where does "make package" put the .pkg file? | The FreeBSD Forums 14:10:35 from what I understand, installing a port creates a pkg file and installs it. I think ports also have a target to create the package directly, but I don't know 14:10:47 https://freshbsd.org/freebsd/src/commit/d95fbf4e1a12565908b04b442263fe60c9e890b4 14:10:48 Title: FreeBSD / src / d95fbf4 / riscv: save the thread pointer in both modes - FreshBSD 14:11:00 whewhoo! 14:15:39 if I installed a package in v1 with pkg install file.pkg, when v2 will be in the binary repository, will it get automatically the update ? 14:15:51 upgrade of syncthing in the jails : done 14:50:44 joneum, hi 14:51:18 nginx-1.24.0,3 need pkg-plist fix: /usr/ports/www/nginx/work/stage/usr/local/libexec/nginx/ngx_mail_ssl_ct_module.so:No such file or directory 14:51:56 same for libexec/nginx/ngx_stream_geoip2_module.so and libexec/nginx/ngx_stream_ssl_ct_module.so 14:52:05 build without MAIL options 14:53:01 oh, with all MAIL options 14:55:19 and without GEOIP 15:03:06 eoli3n: sorry, I meant ports(7) 15:03:27 manual pages are nice. 15:03:36 eoli3n: you should get the update for the next binary update, yes 15:21:54 Has anyone made an ISO of the FreeBSD CLI screenreader? Want to take it for a test drive on a spare box. 16:03:24 imm_: ok thanks 17:07:52 screenreader? 17:08:40 You mean watch(8)/snp(4)? 17:47:18 Anyone happen to know a workaround for the issue with not being able to run "pkg boostrap -f" on FreeBSD 13.1-RELEASE-p7? 17:47:53 Well, the command can be run but it just hangs and does nothing. I've tried several mirrors with no change. 18:05:48 CrtxReavr: indeed; apparently there is a patch that provides a console screenreader using eSpeak. 18:11:04 https://reviews.freebsd.org/D35776?id=111460 18:11:05 Title: ⚙ D35776 vtspeakd(1): Initial version of console speaker daemon. 18:17:52 sektor, `watch -W ` is a total BOFH tool. 18:24:49 sektor: that would be nice 18:33:30 CrtxReavr: oh wow, that's...interesting. 18:38:31 hrm, no Unicode Support in vtspeakd 18:39:15 i'm suprised that command still works 18:39:32 the linux kernel doesn't have the frameworks to support it anymore 18:39:47 sektor: I think OpenBSD might have something, i know that Stefan Sperling built an OpenBSD with/for a blind friend 18:41:29 no, i misremembered: https://www.bsdcan.org/2019/schedule/events/1047.en.html 18:41:30 Title: BSDCan2019: Building an accessible OpenBSD laptop 18:42:55 Maurice runs -current! 18:43:25 ah, there is a video! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ma_Y1hVmK8o 18:43:26 Title: Building an accessible OpenBSD laptop - YouTube 19:06:06 what do you suppose "mode" is under dev.pcm.[unit].mode ? 19:06:13 not in the man pages 19:08:48 what device type and what fbsd version? 19:09:10 and what value are you seeing there? 19:10:28 usb audio device - CURRENT. i see 3 for one and 7 for another 19:11:16 i'm trying to sort out my gaming headset's channels and see if there's a way to properly map them, if that is even possible. it's really bugging me that i can't control the volume on the system (only physically on the headset itself) 19:17:52 "mode (1=mixer, 2=play, 4=rec. The values are OR'ed if more than one" 19:18:23 so the device with mode 3 is playback only, the one with mode 7 is record and playback 19:18:29 RhodiumToad: ok makes sense. thanks. where did you find that? 19:18:34 source code 19:18:47 also sysctl -d would have shown it 19:19:18 oh wow 19:19:33 sigh...so much to read, so little time 19:20:08 I guess the issue is how the driver is interpreting the usb device descriptors and creating pcm devices for them 19:20:31 what's the output of usbconfig -d ... dump_all_desc for the device? 19:21:12 RhodiumToad: brb one second. need to reboot since i unplugged it and now the fd is busted 19:26:08 RhodiumToad: it says i can't parse any of the /dev/dsp devices 19:26:14 with usbconfig -d 19:26:43 nevermind. i'm dumb 19:27:33 the ugen* device 19:28:07 assuming it shows as one device rather than two? 19:29:04 yes, one device 19:29:30 sorry, i am slow wiht getting the text out of tmux...i don't have all my stuff setup yet 19:32:57 s'ok 19:33:08 you can paste to termbin.com using netcat, if it helps 19:33:42 somecommand | nc termbin.com 9999 19:34:31 RhodiumToad: that was helpful, thanks! https://termbin.com/2vb7 19:34:40 not sure how helpful this output is though 19:35:19 by usb standards that's a pretty complex device 19:35:31 yeah it is 19:35:59 interface 0 is the "chat" channel. and interface 3 is the "game" one. "chat" should have a rec out too 19:38:54 interface 0 has no endpoints, so while it says "chat", that's not (afaik) what it is 19:39:50 interfaces 1 alt 1 and 2 alt 1 are unidirectional sound channels, one each way 19:40:41 interface 4 seems to have two alternatives, both output-only channels 19:40:48 interface 5 is the buttons 19:41:34 my usb knowledge is a bit sketchy, so I'm not sure on the details 19:42:07 yeah that seems all fine. i did a little programming against one of the interfaces to control the settings 19:42:37 the way it created the sinks in mixer is just strange 19:44:13 let me check my usb sound dongle to compare 19:44:41 there is a crazy pulse audio patch for this device : https://github.com/pulseaudio/pulseaudio/commit/814419cc3d788acb9113a3d62c373deb1a911e75 19:44:43 Title: alsa-mixer: add support for Steelseries Arctis 7 headset · pulseaudio/pulseaudio@814419c · GitHub 19:46:28 my sound dongle has a basically similar descriptor layout just without the extra device 19:49:58 Heh, dongle. 19:50:02 It's a fun word. 19:50:36 when i set the "game" to the default unit it sounds fine but i can't control anything. when i set the "chat" to default, it's obviously shit sounding but i can control both volumes 19:51:48 meen 19:51:58 meena: interesting stuff. 19:53:04 trev: you might want to try building a kernel with SND_DEBUG and USB_DEBUG enabled 19:53:57 i can do that. what should i be looking for though? 19:54:07 dmesg will have more info? 19:54:19 when you say you can control both volumes, do you mean independently? 19:55:17 dmesg will have more info (you might need to turn on bootverbose) and also there are sysctls to set debug verbosity 19:55:55 should allow some visibility into the probe/attach process 19:56:36 RhodiumToad: yes independently. it's very weird. also the "game" has the mic for some reason, when the "chat" device should 19:58:33 sektor: I think it was really good! 19:59:14 * sektor will watch it tonight during dinner. 23:21:48 anyone here with wifi who can share their ifconfig -a output? 23:21:56 meena: what's the hypervisor for #269874? 23:23:05 yuripv: kvm / qemu with Q35 profile 23:23:38 ok, was wondering if it's bhyve (it seems to set the pci class correctly to 0x10 for rng at least) 23:25:49 yuripv: i haven't tested linux, because uhh… i don't really care about linux lol 23:25:55 -a, not just wlan\d? 23:26:25 meena: it's good comparison :) 23:26:55 V_PauAmma_V: just all, cuz I care about all, but wifi in this specific case 23:27:13 I'm writing up an email to -net@ and i wanna be sure I'm not talking complete nonsense 23:27:15 if lspci lists the same 0x00ff00 for the class, well, you'll have to live with "old" as the class :D 23:28:20 yuripv: I can actually probably check very easily 23:28:39 given that this is lxd / lxc, it's a lot easier than checking FreeBSD (as of yet…) 23:30:24 meena: please do 23:36:32 meena, https://bsd.to/pd2j 23:36:33 Title: dpaste/pd2j (Plain Text) 23:37:33 V_PauAmma_V: maybe this is a silly question, but: why does iwm0 not show up in the ifconfig listing? 23:38:19 it does (parent interface: iwm0) 23:40:50 there's a sysctl variable somewhere with the recognized low-level wifi devices 23:41:17 wlan is a generic shim that sits between the hardware driver and the network stack proper 23:42:07 If you mean as an interface of its own and not just the "parent interface" mention, I don't know. 23:42:57 the idea is that "iwm0" isn't actually a network interface, just a driver that if_wlan can use as a backend 23:43:25 (so that all of the generic wifi work can be done in just one place) 23:47:33 thanks. this just leaves me with more questions about infiniband 23:52:37 meena: for lspci, use -nn, the class would be in []