02:21:13 <doug> i've got an NFS server running on ec2. i'm mounting it onto an external client via the public IP. that works just fine. but when i fire up lockd it fails. seems the client is sending lock RPC calls to the private IP instead of the public.
02:21:22 <doug> anyone ever run into this?
02:30:16 <CrtxReavr> Sounds like you're running NFSv2 or 3?
02:37:41 <CrtxReavr> doug, maybe pass ``-h bindip`` do nfsd?
02:59:54 <doug> yeah, v3. i'd guess -h is for choosing which local address to bind to, can't imagine it working with the public IP (as it's not actually assigned to any interface)
05:07:10 <Beladona> I have a zroot pool on current OS. I just plugged a drive that also had zroot named pool. If I import it, will it cause any problems?
05:53:13 <angry_vincent> Beladona: you can import it with different name, for example zroot_second
05:54:28 <Beladona> angry_vincent via altroot or -R ?
05:59:39 <angry_vincent> yes
06:08:55 <Beladona> angry_vincent no I mean, which one?
06:50:23 <rtprio> Beladona: if it's going to stay in that system, i'd rename it. -R set's the altroot
08:11:37 <yannd> is there a way currently for a userspace process to poll() for an IP address change ?
08:29:21 <rtprio> how often does that happen? no, not really
09:37:34 <debdrup> yannd: devd.conf has ADDR_DEL and ADDR_ADD
09:37:55 <debdrup> It's not quite poll-based, though.
09:41:25 <yannd> debdrup: that part of devd does not get through devctl, right?
09:41:43 <debdrup> I'm not sure I understand the question.
09:42:28 <debdrup> They're two separate subsystems that have little to do with each other beyond the fact that one can control the other via scripts in the first.
09:43:22 <yannd> oh I assumed devd was just a daemon using the devctl subsystem - a couple of things left to learn ;)
09:44:27 <debdrup> That'd be rather impressive, considering there's like 10 years time between devd and devctl, with devd being first.
09:47:21 <yannd> however on 12.2 devd(8) only points to devctl(4), and devd.conf(5) does not mention ADDR_*
09:47:53 <debdrup> Ah, it might've been added after 12.2 was cut, then.
09:49:03 <yannd> ah, seems I need to get my hands on v13
09:49:17 <debdrup> better check it's available there first
09:50:16 <yannd> sure, I don't find it in sbin/devd/ on stable/13
09:52:12 <yannd> could it be newer stuff relying on netlink?
09:53:28 <debdrup> Doesn't look like it: https://cgit.freebsd.org/src/commit/?&id=a75819461ec7c7
09:53:29 <VimDiesel> Title: src - FreeBSD source tree
09:57:34 <yannd> oh, so it seems to get through devctl really
10:10:53 <yannd> unrelated question - I'm trying to build a the xenstore-sys Rust crate on 12.2 (installed Rust through rustup), and it fails to find xenstore.h (which comes with xen-tools in /usr/local/include/).  I guess that crate could be doing something wrong, and it would likely not be the first one, but I can't find any similar error
10:26:16 <debdrup> i'd assume it's using the wrong include path
10:26:29 <debdrup> but i know almost nothing about rust
11:51:16 <meena> I have never read the books, I just know they look thick, I think I've only ever watched David Lynch movie.
11:52:36 <meena> but i did recently read / listened to https://acoup.blog/category/collections/the-fremen-mirage/  /  https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLcIwe3bxds8ad_K0Yg6z_2Kz12HjLang7
11:52:37 <VimDiesel> Title: The Fremen Mirage – A Collection of Unmitigated Pedantry
11:53:07 <meena> hrm… wrong channel
12:15:07 <yuripv> out of context, that looked awesome: "I have never read the books, I just know they look thick"
12:36:54 <yannd> My problem with Rust's xenstore-sys seems to build down to much simpler: clang does not have /usr/local in its -I and -L flags, so seems by default unable to use libs installed through ports, whereas gcc does.  How is that usually handled?  Is it just a clang bug ?
13:10:18 <yannd> just found https://wiki.freebsd.org/WarnerLosh/UsrLocal - that's scary :(
13:10:20 <VimDiesel> Title: WarnerLosh/UsrLocal - FreeBSD Wiki
13:11:37 <NerdyMcNerdface> Feeling a bit silly not figuring this out, but if adding "set skip on { ice0 }" to pf.conf and loading the ruleset, how on earth do I remove the skip on ice0 afterwards? If I remove that line from pf.conf and reload it, the skipping remains active.
13:18:47 <meena> yannd: so if you install a newer clang from package/ports, you'll get the same behaviour as gcc?.
13:28:34 <meena> NerdyMcNerdface: did you flush the rules in between?
13:30:20 <NerdyMcNerdface> meena: Nope. It works if I do "pfctl -F all -f /etc/pf.conf", but that kills all existing states and is kind of destructive.
13:31:54 <NerdyMcNerdface> At least that is better than rebooting, but I'd imagine someone must have had the need to unset skip for a given interface?
13:33:53 <yannd> meena: uninstalled gcc to make some room for an additional clang, but I'm quite surprised to see df reporting "-744M" available after this
13:36:28 <meena> NerdyMcNerdface: you'd think there'd be an unskip if there's a skip
13:36:50 <meena> yannd: i can't do math for shit, but that does strike me as odd
13:40:53 <NerdyMcNerdface> meena: exactly. But I can live with "-F all" for now. And maybe nag a developer about it later. :)
13:44:15 <meena> NerdyMcNerdface: or someone with more knowledge than me. often, opening a bug about pf summons kp, and he usually knows what's up. alternatively, maybe some #OpenBSD people know
13:44:53 <meena> and then, if it's not supported in FreeBSD's pf, you should definitely open a bug
13:52:12 <NerdyMcNerdface> meena: there is indeed a new(?) feature in pfctl in OpenBSD that resets just options like this. "pfctl -F Reset". Ref https://man.openbsd.org/pfctl
13:52:13 <VimDiesel> Title: pfctl(8) - OpenBSD manual pages
14:09:24 <debdrup> The implementations of pf have drifted so much, that there really isn't any point in comparing them.
14:12:32 <Demosthenex> any way to put date/time on sh's PS1?
14:13:14 <Demosthenex> i don't want to use bash as root, but i prefer to have a more dynamic ps1
14:14:07 <debdrup> sh(1) has a whole list of variables that can be added to the prompt.
14:14:30 <CrtxReavr> It's interesting to see nVidia getting into the RAID market.
14:14:54 <Demosthenex> debdrup: hrm. looked like hostname and user and pwd.
14:14:59 <Demosthenex> which is why i asked ;]
14:15:55 <debdrup> I think (t)csh is the shell that can do those things.
14:16:18 <LxGHTNxNG> CrtxReavr: Didn't they m&a it?
14:17:02 <CrtxReavr> I dunno.
14:17:03 <Demosthenex> debdrup: isn't csh being replaced in 14?
14:17:13 <Demosthenex> i was a bit more comfy on sh anyway ;]
14:17:31 <CrtxReavr> bash is always one of the first things I install.
14:17:34 <debdrup> In what sense?
14:17:53 <debdrup> tcsh isn't going anywhere, but roots shell is being changed to the Almquist shell.
14:17:57 <Demosthenex> debdrup: i read somewhere csh was deprecated and sh would replace csh as the root shell in v14
14:18:06 <debdrup> Please tell me where you read that.
14:18:11 <debdrup> Whoever wrote it is a liar.
14:18:59 <Demosthenex> https://klarasystems.com/articles/interacting-with-freebsd-learning-the-fundamentals-of-the-freebsd-shell-2/
14:19:00 <VimDiesel> Title: Interacting with FreeBSD – Learning the Fundamentals of the FreeBSD Shell | Klara Inc
14:19:06 <CrtxReavr> I read somewhere that Trump *REALLY* won the 2020 election too, but there's all kinds of bullshit out there.
14:19:23 <debdrup> CrtxReavr: please take that anywhere else.
14:19:39 <Demosthenex> https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current/2021-September/000648.html
14:19:40 <VimDiesel> Title: [HEADSUP] making /bin/sh the default shell for root
14:19:40 <debdrup> Demosthenex: there's absolutely no mention of deprecation
14:19:55 <debdrup> You need to read the things you link.
14:20:02 <Demosthenex> debdrup: sorry, "sh replaces csh as the root shell in v14". deprecation was my wording.
14:20:13 <CrtxReavr> I'm at the top of this article, and I'm already encountering bullhit.
14:20:17 <Demosthenex> not that csh is going away, just the root shell portion
14:20:17 <CrtxReavr> bullshit even
14:20:22 <xtile> interesting
14:20:43 <Demosthenex> i read it and the list postings, but i was just looking for PS1 customization info :P
14:21:08 <CrtxReavr> "In sh, assigning an environment variable requires two steps—the first step assigns the variable, and the second exports it. "
14:21:31 <Demosthenex> i can't take responsibility for his blog ;] only that it came up in my search
14:22:00 <debdrup> It's not your responsiblility that you interpreted something from an article that doesn't say what you claim it said?
14:22:04 <CrtxReavr> So where's the part about replacing (t)csh with bourne shell?
14:22:40 <Demosthenex> i owned my poor wording ;]
14:23:04 <Demosthenex> CrtxReavr: first line of that klarasystems link, and he linked to a mailing list post
14:23:17 <Demosthenex> but limited scope, only root's default shell
14:23:36 <Demosthenex> i did find that csh allows PS1 with date and time, nice.
14:24:00 <Demosthenex> i use zsh in my non-root accounts, but i know better than to change root's shell to nonstandard.
14:24:08 <CrtxReavr> What value does that provide though?
14:24:13 <Demosthenex> which is why that announcement surprised me. perahsp it isn't accurate
14:24:17 <Demosthenex> CrtxReavr: zsh?
14:24:23 <debdrup> Why are you using roots shell to begin with?
14:24:33 <CrtxReavr> No, dispalying date and/or time in your prompt?
14:24:33 <Demosthenex> debdrup: i don't often. which is why i don't want to customize it
14:24:49 <debdrup> If you're using su on a modern Unix-like, you're probably doing something wrong.
14:25:35 <Beladona> My colleageu and I found that wacom pen and stylus support in freebsd is very very buggy. The pen is detected but writes so glitchy and buggy. What can be done here? https://wiki.freebsd.org/WacomTablet
14:25:36 <VimDiesel> Title: WacomTablet - FreeBSD Wiki
14:26:05 <Demosthenex> CrtxReavr: https://dpaste.org/OKAzz/raw  i use a long PS1 because i frame the results for screenshotting
14:26:41 <meena> https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current/2021-September/000648.html
14:26:42 <Demosthenex> debdrup: there is utility to being root when you're administering. sudo is a wet blanket.
14:26:42 <VimDiesel> Title: [HEADSUP] making /bin/sh the default shell for root
14:27:37 <Beladona> Is there another driver I need?
14:29:59 <Demosthenex> CrtxReavr: i use zsh for two reasons, i think their completion framework is much better than bash completion. i also like being able to show my # of background jobs and the exit code of the last command in my PS1 with color coding.
14:30:12 <Demosthenex> other than that, as long as i have emacs keybinds on the prompt i'm happy
14:31:03 <CrtxReavr> Demosthenex, you use OhMyZsh too?
14:31:12 <Demosthenex> CrtxReavr: NO. that's a huge ball of crap
14:31:31 <CrtxReavr> Really, 'cause it seems like it's always the trifecta with people. . .
14:31:42 <Demosthenex> i prefer to avoid large configs like that because it includes too much
14:31:47 <CrtxReavr> zsh, emacs, & OhMyZsh. . . they go hand in hand.
14:32:19 <Demosthenex> Beladona: have you set any of the desktop tuning params like kern.sched.preempt_thresh?
14:33:08 <Demosthenex> CrtxReavr: never heard that, though i know OhMyZsh seems to be a common thing for zsh users now.
14:33:15 <Demosthenex> i have a small simple config, just a larger ps1
14:34:12 <Demosthenex> i take extensive notes while working on servers, lots of copy/paste (or screenshots for the CLI disabled), and strongly prefer to have date/time, host user, command and output included and comment out the key PS1 lines to prevent paste running anything by accident.
14:34:14 <CrtxReavr> My PS1 is longish, but only because I use a little color in it.
14:34:16 <CrtxReavr> \[\033[35m\]\u\[\033[32m\]@\[\033[33m\]\h\[\033[32m\]-\[\033[36m\]${PWD}\[\033[32m\]\$ \[\033[0m\]
14:35:05 <Demosthenex> if you saw the dpaste, the ps1 forms a kind of text block around the command, and the date/time is from the NEXT prompt meaning it's a fairly accurate time of when a task was done
14:37:35 <Beladona> Demosthenex kern.sched.preempt_thresh. No. where?
14:39:14 <Beladona> I just did, anything else to set? what values? 224?
14:40:22 <Demosthenex> Beladona: i'm using 224. that seems to be a common setting for desktop environments to improve responsiveness
14:40:32 <Demosthenex> i added it the other day and it stopped my audio stuttering
14:40:52 <Demosthenex> you might check the forums for other desktop tunables.
14:40:57 <Demosthenex> i recall seeing a few
14:41:09 <Demosthenex> but i am *not* an expert on tunables, and i use them sparingly
14:41:11 <CrtxReavr> I keep mine fairly basic: https://trioptimum.com/~crtxreavr/prompt.png
14:43:05 <Demosthenex> CrtxReavr: yep. maybe consider putting # at the front so if you copy/paste by accident the command is interpreted as a comment
14:43:21 <Demosthenex> mine is long, but only for screenshotting.
14:43:28 <Beladona> Demosthenex that was nice but there are buggy things. The movment stops at a certain point. No pressure support.
14:43:36 <Beladona> etc
14:43:53 <CrtxReavr> Demosthenex, that seems silly.
14:44:04 <Demosthenex> Beladona: well i can't speak to the other features, i just thought the tunables mayhelp with pointer responsiveness
14:44:16 <Demosthenex> CrtxReavr: oh?
14:45:57 <Demosthenex> debdrup: so i just read the whole mailing list thread, it appears the consensus was to replace the root shell with sh in v14.
14:47:28 <xtile> Haven't all the other BSDs already done so?  I know OpenBSD has, not sure about NetBSD.  (I'm not promoting conformism: just noting prior art)
14:47:58 <Beladona> Demosthenex those things help but I think its the driver issue. I ran a virtualmachine inside freebsd as ubuntu the guest. The same pen worked fine in linux guest
14:48:53 <Beladona> But that surprises me that wacm drivers are kind of built in the kernal irrc
14:53:18 <Demosthenex> Beladona: wacom's drivers for windoze and mac are actual malware. reporting back over the net every app you have open while you use it. they aren't really open, so i'm not surprised an open driver would be incomplete. i think this is just not well supported.
14:54:07 <Demosthenex> xtile: being trendy isn't always being right. i don't mind csh, i just was curious why this is a point of contention or an unconfirmed change
14:54:52 <Beladona> xsetwacom --list  shows nothing
14:56:50 <Beladona> xinput does show  one device 'Wacom co' only
14:57:03 <Beladona> Demosthenex have you used wacome stylus on your system?
14:57:42 <xtile> Demosthenex: of course, I don't disagree
14:58:56 <Demosthenex> Beladona: no, sorry. i only spoke up because the tunable recently fixed my usb audio and i thought it could be related to poor response time on your tablet.
14:59:26 <Demosthenex> xtile: naturally i completely don't agree to not disagree about the agreement. glad we concur.
14:59:50 <Beladona> oh ok
15:01:23 <Demosthenex> Beladona: i've been on freebsd about a year, and i use it as my daily driver as an x11 workstation on my thinkpad t480 with stumpwm. i work in mostly terminals (urxvt), emacs, and i use virtualbox to jail an ubuntu VM for malware like webex, teams, citrix, and such.
15:02:50 <Demosthenex> i'm a complete convert. i was using linux from 1995 to 2021, and growing increasingly disappointed with the breaking changes, horrid device support, and windozization of the OS. i started using ZFS, and found freebsd promoted it to a first class feature, and now i'm happily settled in.
15:03:26 <Demosthenex> is that a word? windozization? gatesification? potteringcrapification?
15:03:44 <Demosthenex> linux is a hobbyist OS built in fragments with no cohesion, and it shows.
15:04:00 <Demosthenex> of course, i'm an AIX bigot, but i really appreciate freebsd is available for my personal use.
15:05:04 <Demosthenex> wish more of my customers would use freebsd instead of redhat.
15:07:31 <CrtxReavr> I liked AIX. . .
15:07:42 <CrtxReavr> Not touched it in a lot of years though.
15:08:14 <Demosthenex> CrtxReavr: it's an excellent server OS. the new mainframe. rock solid, great device and storage, scales incredibly.
15:08:30 <LapsangS> never tried
15:08:41 <Demosthenex> but i think freebsd is a better server OS choice for smaller systems where linux might be used.
15:08:46 <LapsangS> yes
15:08:51 <Demosthenex> linux can't even properly mirror OS :P
15:08:53 <Demosthenex> sad
15:09:27 <CrtxReavr> IT's a pretty standard SystemV varient. . . has the "When in doubt, type 'smit'." uber system config program.
15:09:53 <LapsangS> if Linux Torvalds had ever heard of FreeBSD he would not have bothered to start his Linux project
15:09:58 <Demosthenex> CrtxReavr: i can take someone who used AIX in 1990 and put them on the current one and they can still manage it
15:10:31 <Demosthenex> LapsangS: linux is a fine fast moving prototyping and development platform for javascript malware and windoze wannabes.
15:10:42 <LapsangS> heheh
15:10:47 <CrtxReavr> LapsangS, actually. . . Linus had heard of it, and he's on record for having said if BSD wasnt' being sued by Sun & Bell Labs (AT*T), he never would have bothered to start linux.
15:10:58 <LapsangS> yeah
15:11:10 <LapsangS> something like that
15:11:24 <CrtxReavr> No one would have guessed that BSD would win, with a Pro-Bono legal team, against those industry titans.
15:11:53 <LapsangS> BSD license is more free than GPL
15:12:40 <Lovis_IX> Demosthenex:I used to learn Unix on AIX in 1992/1993. On a RS/6000 machine (a small one)
15:13:13 <LapsangS> you guys are so old
15:13:31 <LapsangS> back then i was still in kindergarten or so
15:13:35 <CrtxReavr> My first exposure to UNIX was on some SysV variant on some HP-3000 machine in university.
15:13:54 <Lovis_IX> LapsangS:I take that as a compliment
15:13:57 <CrtxReavr> I'd used the thing for weeks, before I realized it was internet-connected.
15:13:59 <LapsangS> of course
15:14:29 <CrtxReavr> First accessed it by these shitty TVI-312 dumb-terminals.
15:14:55 <CrtxReavr> Was a Pascal programming class.
15:15:43 <LapsangS> i think some of you have used the old fashioned real UNIXes.. dumb terminals etc
15:16:11 <LapsangS> it must have been interesting
15:16:33 <Demosthenex> LapsangS: i played a MUD (game) over telnet on the early internet in the gopher and ftp only days. met my wife there, before web browsers existed.
15:16:46 <LapsangS> great
15:17:11 <CrtxReavr> Though technically. . . the original defintion of "dumb terminal" & "smart terminal" was whether or not you could just access info (dumb), vs. change/create info (smart).
15:17:39 <CrtxReavr> But with the proliferaton of PCs, anything that was just a terminal, became "dumb."
15:17:47 <LapsangS> modern terminal is the software that you install on freebsd
15:18:02 <xtile> MUCKs are fun.  Haven't played any MUDs in ages.
15:18:21 <CrtxReavr> Had some crazy fun with MUDs.
15:18:26 <CrtxReavr> Also BBS door games.
15:18:50 <LapsangS> my first computer was Spectravideo 328
15:19:02 <LapsangS> 8 bit home computer
15:19:28 <LapsangS> similar to Commodore 64 in specs
15:19:34 <CrtxReavr> My first was a Sinclair ZX-81. . . a kit my dad and I put together.
15:19:54 <CrtxReavr> I actually still have my Commodore 64. . . still works.
15:20:00 <LapsangS> nice
15:20:03 <CrtxReavr> The SX-64 variety.
15:20:03 <Lovis_IX> oh! If you want to go back to the first computer, at home it was a zx81 and at scholl PET CBM.
15:20:11 <LapsangS> it is a legendary piece of hardware
15:20:13 <yuripv> sinclair is the author's name, i think, and it's called zx-spectrum?
15:20:44 <CrtxReavr> The ZX Spectrum was a later, more capable model.
15:20:50 <yuripv> ah
15:21:28 <LapsangS> my first pc was 386
15:21:29 <CrtxReavr> Supported *COLOR* for one thing.
15:21:45 <CrtxReavr> Had a keyboard with BUTTONS!
15:22:05 <Beladona> Demosthenex nice! ya netflix, webx, tetc won't run on freebsd and would need linux vm. I have similar strategies. What do you mean about zfs? linux does not unlocks all features of it?
15:22:06 <Lovis_IX> CrtxReavr: did you have the "keyboard" and the 16k memory extension on your ZX81?
15:22:14 <CrtxReavr> The ZX-81, they keyboard was a sticker, with a ribbon cable that plugged into the motherboard.
15:22:24 <LapsangS> but the olivetti keyboard in that machine was wonderful I used that for 20 years
15:22:32 <CrtxReavr> I later got the 16k RAM extension. . .
15:22:38 <CrtxReavr> Though that had its own issues.
15:22:47 <CrtxReavr> "RAM pack wobble."
15:22:55 <paulf> wobbly ram connector!
15:23:09 <LapsangS> 4 MB RAM and 40 MB HDD in that
15:23:46 <paulf> Sinclair was famous for good ideas and bad peripherals
15:23:56 <CrtxReavr> My parents had a Tandy 1000 8088 machine, with 1MB of RAM and a 20 MB HD, which was mounted on an ISA card.
15:24:29 <CrtxReavr> My first PC was a PackardBell 386sx with a 40 MB HD, and I upgraded it to 2 MB of RAM.
15:24:33 <LapsangS> normal home 8 bit computers did not even have a hard drive
15:24:48 <paulf> The worst I ever saw was the QL printer - imagine a loo roll dispenser converted into a themal printer
15:24:59 <LapsangS> it was luxurious
15:25:19 <Demosthenex> Beladona: linux zfs is yet another tinker toy link in the fragile stack of linux storage tools. it's not properly supported, integrated,and certainly not good to boot from.
15:25:25 <CrtxReavr> Sinclair released a thermal printer. . .
15:25:37 <Demosthenex> i spent two years trying to make gentoo have boot environments and it broke every time i merged world
15:26:06 <LapsangS> i had very long and painful mission to install this colour laser printer
15:26:12 <CrtxReavr> It was infamous for it's silver paper, unfit for turning homework in on. . . also turned dark if you handled it too much.
15:26:17 <LapsangS> now it works
15:26:19 <paulf> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZX_Printer#/media/File:Sinclair.zx.thermal.printer.jpg
15:26:20 <VimDiesel> Title: ZX Printer - Wikipedia
15:26:27 <Beladona> Demosthenex right.
15:26:39 <LapsangS> Epson Aculaser C1600
15:27:02 <LapsangS> but with CUPS and Konica Minolta it works
15:27:31 <LapsangS> foo2js sth was the package that needed to be installed
15:28:00 <CrtxReavr> paulf, that's it. . . I wonder if it would have helped at all with RAM wobble.
15:28:09 <CrtxReavr> (used the same slot)
15:28:17 <CrtxReavr> Prolly made it worse.
15:29:52 <Demosthenex> *sigh* printers. bane of IT
15:30:17 <Demosthenex> only ever buy networked lasers that speak postscript natively. no one listens ;]
15:30:48 <CrtxReavr> And *NEVER* buy anything that uses inkcartridges.
15:30:58 <CrtxReavr> Suckers' game.
15:31:28 <CrtxReavr> I got through college with a 24-pin dot matrix.
15:31:40 <CrtxReavr> Panasonic KXP-1123.
15:31:48 <Demosthenex> yeah. i have a 5 yro brother, works fine via lpd and postscript. 'course just today it developed a persistant jam i need to fix
15:31:54 <CrtxReavr> Great unit.
15:34:09 <skered> No 5 year old should ever have to deal with lpd or postscript.
15:34:22 * skered calls the authorites.
15:34:32 <xtile> lpd isn't that bad ;3
15:34:54 <Lovis_IX> i cannot make my lexmark works with my FreeBSD 13.1. Annoyoing, but I use my linux dev machine. "Printers and Users are the IT' makor nightmare"
15:35:23 <Lovis_IX> major*
15:35:29 <LapsangS> this printer is some weirdo winprinter
15:35:55 <LapsangS> but it works
15:36:40 <Demosthenex> xtile: yeah, i was miffed i had to install cups for firefox to print
15:37:09 <LapsangS> cuos did the trick
15:38:11 <LapsangS> i wondered if this works on linux then why not on freebsd
15:39:40 <Lovis_IX> I ask my self the same question. The message is "the filter failed".
15:39:54 <LapsangS> yeah
15:40:11 <LapsangS> cups + filters
15:41:21 <Saint_Tuesday> Hey LapsangS!
15:41:31 <LapsangS> hey
15:41:55 <Saint_Tuesday> I am now lurking in three separate BSD channels
15:41:57 <LapsangS> xfce4 and freensd works fine
15:42:10 <Demosthenex> aix gives me ksh88 by default, so i thought freebsd's csh was an upgrade ;]
15:42:24 <LapsangS> i installed bash
15:42:49 <LapsangS> i dont like sh
15:46:46 <rukus> hehe, sh is symlinked to bash :)
15:47:35 <LapsangS> yes they are similar
15:48:51 <LapsangS> sh scripts do run on bash
15:49:30 <Demosthenex> write posix shell scripts and use shellcheck, never worry about portability :P
15:49:55 <LapsangS> yeah
15:50:42 <LapsangS> nowadays even the bsdinstall works in Finnish keyboards
15:50:58 <LapsangS> öäå
15:51:19 <Beladona> Demosthenex I see. What pain points do you see in freebsd as an x linux user/
15:53:12 <Demosthenex> Beladona: my transition from gentoo to freebsd was nearly seamless and no more difficult than changing between debian and redhat. i had to update a few script locations, update paths in my profile, and do a little HW integration with my laptop.
15:53:24 <LapsangS> i am a ex-windows user
15:53:38 <Demosthenex> i even turned on the linux binary support and all the stuff i hadn't considered that i compiled and placed in my local path JUST WORKED
15:54:10 <LapsangS> i prefer the freebsd because of the excellent Handbook
15:54:15 <Demosthenex> i'm also a professional systems integrator, so i had done repeated installs and tests with freebsd and was very impressed
15:54:28 <Demosthenex> i didn't take moving from gentoo to freebsd lightly.
15:54:36 <LapsangS> the documentation on fbsd is excellent
15:54:43 <Beladona> Demosthenex impressed on?
15:55:27 <Beladona> Demosthenex Isn't putting linux binary on a bad idea if linux is the thing you want to move away from?
15:55:33 <Demosthenex> Beladona: the hard separation between the highly integrated core OS from the packages (ie: / vs /usr/local), the modern hardware support, and ZFS as a fully supported primary feature.
15:55:40 <LapsangS> i find this thing easier to install than most linux distros
15:55:57 <LapsangS> just read the handbook
15:56:01 <Beladona> Demosthenex I see
15:56:12 <Demosthenex> Beladona: yeah, but i have misc little programs in ~/.local/bin/ i my homedir, i didn't even think about them. also stumpwm was sbcl dumped as a linux executable in ~/.quicklisp, and it just worked.
15:56:36 <Beladona> I see
15:56:47 <Demosthenex> Beladona: linux is a mess. thousands of packages trying to make an os. freebsd is a single OS, and well integrated. the package addons cannot break the core os.
15:57:01 <LapsangS> some files are located in different places
15:57:10 <LapsangS> than in linux
15:57:16 <Demosthenex> meh, locations always change
15:57:23 <Beladona> Demosthenex so freebsd is more stable, less crashes, handles nice/priorities better? better UI stability? zfs of course best on bsd
15:57:32 <LapsangS> yes
15:57:43 <LapsangS> i use ufs still
15:58:28 <LapsangS> i am still testing this
15:59:16 <Beladona> Demosthenex what top 3 things you would consider leading freebsd at a better position? one is zfs, many apps vs single os. or any other top one?
16:01:22 <LapsangS> i think freebsd has done wonderful job in server area but it is also great on desktop... it is not advertised
16:02:02 <LapsangS> i tried to install ubuntu
16:02:05 <LapsangS> it failed
16:02:13 <LapsangS> then i came back to freebsd
16:02:37 <LapsangS> weird
16:02:50 <LapsangS> isnt ubuntu supposed to be easy
16:03:17 <LapsangS> it had some issues with my efi/bios
16:03:45 <Demosthenex> Beladona: ZFS for THE OS including the power of boot environments integrated with OS updates, ZFS for data, single project for the OS, and jails with ZFS integration
16:04:20 <LapsangS> ZFS is cool but a bit more resource hungry
16:04:49 <Beladona> Demosthenex alright!
16:04:57 <LapsangS> for most normal users whatever you pick is good enough
16:05:01 <Beladona> what minimum drive is ok for zfs?
16:05:16 <Beladona> provided that gui, snapshots, normal stuff
16:05:36 <LapsangS> any normal computer does fine with both
16:16:09 <Beladona> LapsangS both what?
16:16:28 <LapsangS> both what
16:17:45 <LapsangS> i think gui or command-wise i dunno
16:22:11 <ghoti> What letsencrypt tools do peopple use? acme.sh looks reasonable to me (especially the dependency list), but is there a "best" one I don't know about? (haproxy+dovecot+sendmail)
16:39:52 <Demosthenex> Beladona: have a pc made in the last decade? not on a raspberry pi? use zfs.
16:50:58 <kevans> i mean, i'm told zfs on the 8gb models isn't bad
16:57:24 <Demosthenex> could be. needs tuning of ARC i think
17:01:31 <meena> Beladona: i use ZFS on my VPS storage… thingies where the smolest is 10G
17:01:53 <meena> I use it to store SQLite databases lol
17:17:44 <Demosthenex> my impression is that ZFS is fine for all usage, but may require tuning for small systems.
17:20:38 <Beladona> meena I see
17:20:59 <Beladona> Demosthenex tuning like what for drives under 100G?
17:29:12 <Demosthenex> Beladona: no the ZFS ARC cache for low memory systems
17:29:25 <Demosthenex> may not be a big deal anymore, but i've had to tune it down a few times.
17:29:59 <CrtxReavr> With tcpdump, verbosity level shoudn't matter if I'm capturing to a file, no?
17:30:37 <debdrup> What're you trying to do?
17:31:24 <debdrup> It does somewhat change the behaviour of tcpdump, from what I recall - so depending on what you want to do, maybe it's something you need.
17:33:08 <CrtxReavr> Writing the capture to a file with -w so I can crack it open with wireshark.
17:38:15 <Demosthenex> i think -w saves the binary packets. verbosity only affects the local report printing. you may need to check if it keeps the whole packet or just a part
17:40:13 <CrtxReavr> If memory servers, it keep the whole packet if you pass -s0
17:40:23 <CrtxReavr> serves
17:40:54 <CrtxReavr> Working in IT has made it near impossible to type "serve" or "serves."
17:43:01 <mason> Hear, hear.
17:47:33 <Demosthenex> yeah, just try typing this command while on a projector or screenshare with important customers:   fuser -ck /mnt/X
17:47:39 <Demosthenex> years of the internet make that a real hard job
18:13:16 <mason> Shell script in advance! Shell script in advance!
18:28:50 <gzar> lol
23:49:12 <skered> Is it Christmas in March?!