00:52:58 <RoyalYork> jarebear6expepjo, I hear your point on "drm bad", but we willingly pay for the subscription and we as willing participants don't get a say in the drm matter
01:48:57 <jarebear6expepjo> mostly memeing RoyalYork-- I support however you want to ingest your media bb
08:02:47 <drobban> antranigv_: Do you have any recommendations on how to export / import a jail snapshot from one host to another with jailer?
09:02:59 <titou> hey I'm trying to update the devfs rules for a jail. Unfortunately even without updating the devfs.rules when i want to check a devfs rule through "devfs rule show XX" I dot the error: devfs rule: ioctl DEVFSIO_RGETNEXT: No such file or directory" whereas "devfs rule showsets" returns some lines (including XX of course)
09:03:44 <titou> I don't understand why i encounter this error (i forgot to mention that these commands are executed on the host not into a jail)
09:13:08 <parv> Seems like you would need specify the mount point for the related ruleset
09:17:14 <parv> ... or perhaps not/ignore me, as I just started learning about that
09:18:39 <titou> arf
09:18:54 <titou> i'll try
09:44:29 <titou> the error doesn't appears but it returns nothing..
10:08:45 <meena> titou: you running this as root or user?
11:13:37 <cristiioan> I'm planing on moving from Linux to BSD. For day to day use should I use FreeBSD or HardenedBSD? I do care about security
11:23:22 <titou> meena: as root
11:29:45 <sopparus>  can you convert ufs to zfs disk? (non root) ?
11:42:12 <meena> sopparus: not without losing all the data
11:42:39 <sopparus> ok
11:42:40 <AmyMalik> sopparus: preposterous
11:43:01 <AmyMalik> you need to be root, and have a second copy of the disk
11:45:01 <AmyMalik> cristiioan: FreeBSD has fewer idiosyncrasies. HBSD uses rtld hardening, a bane of my life. Both have higher power draw than Linux on Intel Kaby Lake laptops.
11:45:11 <meena> I've known of a few conversion tools over the past 24 years for some Filesystems, but they always came with caveats
11:45:47 <meena> Filesystems are really complex and highly optimised, so converting between them would be really really hard
11:45:59 <AmyMalik> F and H have substantially identical power draw.
11:49:06 <meena> AmyMalik: wouldn't it be really useful to have a tool like powertop on Linux to figure out where that power is going
11:49:32 <AmyMalik> meena: I should write one
11:50:20 <AmyMalik> would also require a tonne of kernal machinery, and new things in drivers to action the results
11:51:03 <AmyMalik> could do it in a week, after 3 weeks of extensive study, and some hard drugs (caffeine)
11:51:48 <AmyMalik> (many decades-long projects have started as "I'll have it was/were in a week")
11:54:23 <meena> AmyMalik: you don't think we ab refurbish the dtrace stuff?
11:55:49 <titou> and about my problem regarding devfs someone has an idea?
11:57:22 <meena> titou: not without getting close to a computer
11:58:08 <titou> ok :(
11:58:48 <AmyMalik> meena: new machinery could be machinery within dtrace
11:59:04 <meena> titou:  but honestly, I'd probably start with dtruss and see how far that takes me
11:59:22 <AmyMalik> titou: describe ?
11:59:39 <AmyMalik> > < titou> hey I'm trying to update the devfs rules for a jail. Unfortunately even without updating the devfs.rules when i want to check a devfs rule through "devfs rule show XX" I dot the error: devfs rule: ioctl DEVFSIO_RGETNEXT: No such file or directory" whereas "devfs rule showsets" returns some lines (including XX of course)
11:59:43 <AmyMalik> this?
12:00:23 <titou> yes
12:01:16 <titou> i also got this error if i use "devfs -m /dev rule show XX" (/dev use devfs) and if i replace the mountpoint with a jail dev directory it returns no error but also returns nothing
12:14:17 <titou> AmyMalik: do you have any idea?
12:17:59 <meena> titou: have you checked bugzilla
12:20:53 <titou> meena: nop but i also found nothing on google
12:48:02 <antranigv> drobban not yet, but I can write a guide on how to do it manually!
12:57:20 <meena> titou: which OS / platform you on?
13:03:38 <meena> works for me on 13.1 for both host system and jail, if i just do sudo -H devfs -m /dev rule showsets i get 1 2 3 4 5; which seems extremely useless
13:04:05 <meena> but if i ask for sudo -H devfs -m /dev rule show 1
13:04:05 <meena> devfs rule: ioctl DEVFSIO_RGETNEXT: No such file or directory
13:04:28 <cristiioan> AmyMalik: I'm not expecting good battery life anyway(I get around 4-5h without optimization on linux), since I have a Framework Laptop. I'm moving to BSD since I like more how it works and how it is configured than Linux. When I used Linux initaly it was something new for me, now it isn't anymore.
13:04:33 <meena> i also see nothing in dtruss, because it just mmaps a kernel address
13:05:05 <yuripv> there are just empty rulesets?
13:05:59 <meena> yuripv: this is just the default set, I didn't make any modifications of my own
13:07:52 <gzar> seems like my crashes were resolved by rebuilding SDL2 without vulkan support
13:11:36 <titou> meena: FreBSD 13.1
13:12:13 <titou> so you got exactly the same result! that's really strange... I can't believe this is a bug. I guess I forgot to enable or set something..
13:12:49 <meena> titou: I'll check a local VM with CURRENT
13:14:45 <meena> okay, same on CURRENT
13:15:21 <meena> but a) my system is a about 3 weeks out of date; and I can't update it because my PkgBase server is down…
13:18:49 <titou> well that's pretty strange. However i just found that the ruleset have to be set into jail.conf rather than into rc.conf...
13:19:14 <titou> after doing the update i got my dev files into my jail
13:19:30 <titou> but the devfs rule show command still doesn't work! ayway
13:19:33 <titou> thank you for your help
13:22:24 <meena> titou: the devfs rule show thing is a bug, i just wanna scrape together a good enough bug report
13:42:11 <Demosthenex> so is there a way to get date/time in the sh PS1?
13:52:41 <cristiioan> Is there support for using thunderbolt monitors?
13:55:49 <yuripv> isn't it just a display port?
13:56:04 <yuripv> worked for me with nvidia card
13:57:06 <yuripv> intel graphics worked as well, but don't take my word on it, i could be mistaken :D
14:17:04 <cristiioan> yuripv: The monitor I plan on getting has dp, hdmi and thunderbolt, so it would be an issuse using it. I just wish to use it over Thunderbolt due to having a bulit-in doc and PD
14:20:35 <yuripv> I mean that it isn't really a thunderbolt, but rather displayport "alternate mode", or whatever it's called
14:21:23 <debdrup> I seem to recall that the TB3 port on my T480s outputs display.
14:22:23 <debdrup> That and the UBS C connector for power (and Ethernet?) is the only two connections going through to the dock.
15:14:57 <Demosthenex> i just setup my t480. i couldn't get anything on the dock to work. displayport uses usb displaylink and doesn't work so i had to switch to hdmi. the ethernet port in the dock is also some usb thing, so that didn't work. i get power and a usb hub for my keyboard.
15:20:43 <AmyMalik> cristiioan: It won't be bad bad.
15:25:48 <CrtxReavr> What's a proper FreeBSD value for CMAKE_ASM_COMPILER?
15:29:29 <debdrup> Demosthenex: really? Both displayport outputs, as well as the HDMI output, work on my dock.
15:29:46 <debdrup> Which dock are you using?
15:33:28 <Demosthenex> debdrup: uh, DisplayLink ThinkPad Hybrid USB-C with USB-A Dock
15:33:45 <Demosthenex> the displaylink uses something called billboard, which wasn't supported
15:33:52 <Demosthenex> Cypress Semiconductor Billboard Device
15:33:58 <Demosthenex> and i don't even see the ethernet
15:34:28 <Demosthenex> i just moved over from my x230 to this new t480. it went pretty smoothly
15:34:39 <debdrup> Demosthenex: I'm not familiar with that one; I'm using Lenovo ThinkPad Pro Docking Station, if memory serves.
15:35:25 <debdrup> It doesn't expose any of the USB devices though.
15:35:50 <debdrup> What it does do is pass through the ethernet connector
15:36:17 <debdrup> As in, there's a RJ45 connected to the dock, and that gets used by FreeBSD as em0, replacing the em0 that's in the T480s.
15:38:20 <debdrup> It might be the ultra dock, not the pro dock?
15:42:44 <yannd> digging how devctl/devd works, I see that there can only be a single client, so any monitoring has to go through devd, right ?
15:46:11 <Demosthenex> debdrup: yeay, likely
15:46:24 <Demosthenex> debdrup: its all run off 1 usb c cable
15:46:32 <Demosthenex> i prefer the click-in docs.
15:46:55 <yannd> the events I'm trying to get are changes in IP configuration (UP/DOWN status, IPv4/v6 addresses, less importantly MAC addresses); if I kill devd and look at devctl myself I don't see any event on IP change, only on UP/DOWN, is this at all possible ?  Or will it only be available with Netlink and I'll have to live with sleep-and-scan polling for past releases ?
15:48:08 <debdrup> Demosthenex: the dock i have uses two connections, one for the power+ethernet and one for display, i think
15:48:32 <debdrup> at least that's what i've been able to gather when using another dock i have lying around, which is one of those where you use two separate cables
15:48:58 <Demosthenex> debdrup: yeah, i put power into the dock, and then one usb-c to the laptop.
15:49:44 <Demosthenex> wish i'd known about that dock
15:54:41 <debdrup> They haven't exactly made it easy, considering how many docks they make: https://pcsupport.lenovo.com/us/en/solutions/pd014572
15:54:44 <VimDiesel> Title: Docks - Reference Guide - Lenovo Support US
16:18:51 <gzar> i'd like to notify you folks that the pre-build packages for SDL2 for freebsd-13-1-RELEASE do have vulkan compiled in, which caused crashes on my system when i tried opening an SDL window since my nvidia card (driver 340) doesn't support vulkan
16:20:00 <debdrup> IRC isn't a bug tracker.
16:22:04 <gzar> i know, but idk if this would qualify as a bug
16:22:21 <debdrup> Sure sounds like it.
16:22:46 <gzar> hm, alright i guess i'll submit it
16:23:29 <yuripv> but probably a bug in legacy (340) nvidia-driver
16:23:52 <gzar> its more of a binary-packaging assumption about available features of modern cards/software
16:24:09 <yuripv> it shouldn't panic no matter what
16:24:22 <gzar> alright
16:57:32 <gzar> also sorry, didnt realize there was #freebsd-social too and #freebsd-bugs
17:01:22 <debdrup> Don't worry too much about that; -social is generally used if this channel is very active and people want to talk about off-topic stuff, whereas -bugs is (at least as far as I know) used more to talk about bugzilla itself, rather than individual bugs.
17:01:27 <skered> Interesting... Trying to get xrdp working with a Dell Wyse ThinOS thinclient and it turns out ThinOS is FreeBSD based.
17:02:27 <debdrup> skered: add it to the pile of software using FreeBSD as a basis
17:02:27 <debdrup> (it's a considerably bigger pile than people realize)
17:03:07 <skered> However, ThinOS has issues... go figure :)
17:03:21 <debdrup> It isn't the first time Dell has gone that route; they had a whole line of storage appliances that ran something based on FreeBSD.
17:03:57 <skered> debdrup: Before they bought EMC?
17:04:05 <debdrup> skered: I believe so, yes.
17:04:09 <skered> Cool.
17:11:11 <Demosthenex> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_products_based_on_FreeBSD
17:11:13 <VimDiesel> Title: List of products based on FreeBSD - Wikipedia
17:11:18 <Demosthenex> dell compellent storage
17:11:51 <Demosthenex> i've worked with them.
17:20:32 <debdrup> there's way more products than what's listed on there, but which can't be "officially verified" to the standards of wikipedia (which gets a hearty laugh from me)
17:30:47 <Beladona> both mirror drives have: 1  efi  (260M) 2:  freebsd-boot  (512K)   under `gpart show`. One boots, other does not. `glabel status` says `gpt/efiboot0  da1p1`  but no `efboot` for da2.  Why? and how to make that bootable too? Do I need to do `gpart bootcode -b /boot/bootxyz da2` ?
17:30:48 <Beladona> https://docs.freebsd.org/en/books/handbook/geom/#geom-mirror-two-new-disks
17:30:49 <VimDiesel> Title: Chapter 20. GEOM: Modular Disk Transformation Framework | FreeBSD Documentation Portal
17:32:13 <debdrup> Beladona: If you've already created the partitions on the disks, you probably can't (easily) shrink them.
17:32:43 <Beladona> Is shrinking needed to make the other one bootable?
17:33:20 <debdrup> If there isn't room to create the bootblock, you'll need to make room by shrinking.
17:33:50 <debdrup> Can you put the output of gpart show in a pastebin?
17:34:05 <debdrup> err, gpart list
17:34:12 <meena> https://m.xkcd.com/978/
17:34:13 <VimDiesel> Title: xkcd: Citogenesis
17:37:38 <Beladona> debdrup https://pastebin.pl/view/42707a52
17:37:39 <VimDiesel> Title: Untitled - Pastebin
17:39:00 <debdrup> Right, I meant gpart list
17:41:08 <Beladona> debdrup https://pastebin.pl/view/5134bfd3
17:41:09 <VimDiesel> Title: Re: Untitled - Pastebin
17:43:05 <debdrup> ah, i see what's causing the issue; both ESPs are labeled efiboot0
17:43:17 <debdrup> wait, no they're not
17:43:50 <debdrup> i'm not sure i understand what the problem is
17:43:59 <debdrup> how're you testing which one boots, and which one doesn't?
17:45:38 <Beladona> I am testing by unpluging da1, rebooting, selecting da2 in bios to boot from.
17:46:03 <Beladona> debdrup as per glabel, it clearly does not have ` gpt/efiboot0` for da2 but da1
17:46:22 <Beladona> so the system does not boots from da2
17:46:41 <Beladona> this is a freebsd old install. both were mirrored during installation.
17:46:58 <Beladona> both and swap encrypted
17:47:22 <debdrup> hm. i'm not sure.
17:47:36 <debdrup> glabel is geom label, not gpt labels
17:47:43 <debdrup> gpt labels are set via gpart label
17:48:02 <Beladona> ok, which part will make things assured that both disks 'are' bootable?
17:48:02 <Lovis_IX> hello. Could it be because both disks does not have the same size?
17:48:19 <debdrup> Beladona: that's the ESP
17:48:27 <Beladona> Lovis_IX both are not equal but this should not be a problem in my experience
17:48:28 <debdrup> Lovis_IX: no
17:48:41 <Lovis_IX> ok.
17:49:15 <debdrup> all it means is that on the bigger disks, there's a bunch of sectors which aren't being used (but thanks to how ssd wear leveling works, the cells underneath might still be used)
17:50:08 <Beladona> ok what needs to be done here?
17:50:16 <debdrup> i'm not sure.
17:50:29 <Beladona> debdrup I think you are a document contributor in freebsd.Daniel?
17:50:42 <debdrup> ...why do you ask?
17:50:57 <Beladona> No, just sounded familier
17:51:01 <debdrup> it's kinda creepy when people who don't know me address me by my first name when i go by a nickname on irc.
17:51:30 <Beladona> It just rang a bell
17:51:43 <debdrup> everything about the UEFI boot processes means that what's on your two disks should permit the UEFI to load the ESP on either device; the fact that it doesn't suggests to me that there's something else going on, but i don't know what
17:51:54 <debdrup> but yes, i am a committer working on documentation
17:52:20 <Beladona> this needs correction in freebsd context as this was created by freebsd during installation. The docs are not clear either on this (not pointing at you though)
17:52:39 <debdrup> i'm not sure it's a problem with how freebsd set up things
17:52:47 <Beladona> debdrup who would be the best person to ask ?
17:52:54 <debdrup> i don't know.
17:53:09 <Beladona> ok, how can I find out who commits for this part
17:53:25 <domlaut> might be best to report a bug on bugzilla for the appropriate subsystem and wait for a response
17:53:28 <debdrup> you haven't demonstrated that there's a bug in what freebsd set up.
17:53:42 <debdrup> domlaut: no, because it's not clear there's a bug in freebsd.
17:53:45 <Beladona> I think its not a bug but something we don't understand nor is documented
17:54:14 <Beladona> Yes I agree with debdrup
17:54:19 <debdrup> well, my server boots fine from one of the three drives that it uses as a boot disk, each with its own ESP
17:54:37 <debdrup> so i'm pretty sure it's something to do with the specific UEFI implementation on whatever hardware you're using
17:54:41 <Beladona> oh so you have made mirrors in your past experience? do all boot?
17:54:49 <debdrup> i just said they did
17:54:53 <Beladona> all?
17:54:57 <debdrup> yes
17:55:08 <Beladona> without the first one being plugged in?
17:55:21 <Beladona> without any other being plugged in?
17:55:24 <debdrup> that's how i tested it, by pulling all of them except one
17:55:33 <Beladona> if you can confirm that, this will change my course of research
17:55:35 <Beladona> ok..
17:56:01 <Beladona> those were setup normally and traditioanlly during freebsd installation process as mirros. Correct?
17:56:01 <debdrup> there's nothing about the second pastebin that looks odd to me, so it should work - hence my thought being that there's something else broken
17:56:41 <domlaut> debdrup: fair enough! figured it'd be marked as not a bug/closed as wontfix with an explanation if that was the case (and Beladona thought it was a bug, which I see now they don't)
17:56:44 <debdrup> i used geom mirror to ensure the bootblocks get written exactly the same
17:56:44 <Beladona> the only thing broken is the network that does not gets me online there. rest all good
17:57:28 <Beladona> debdrup so you did changed or tweaked something after installation?
17:57:35 <debdrup> Beladona: not that i remember
17:57:56 <Beladona> how did you used gemo mirror? How should I use that in my case?
17:58:33 <debdrup> the only difference between the one i have and the one you have is that you have to copy /boot/loader.efi to both your ESPs whereas since i'm using geom mirror, i just have to copy it once.
17:59:12 <Beladona> thats it? only copy  /boot/loader.efi  from one drive to another?
17:59:19 <debdrup> no
17:59:42 <debdrup> /boot/loader.efi is the PE32+ file that needs to be on both ESPs
18:00:25 <debdrup> Beladona: i wouldn't recommend using gmirror unless you know that your UEFI firmware won't attempt to write to the ESPs, as it won't be aware of geom mirror
18:00:46 <Beladona> which partition does it sits on? 1 efi  (260M) or 2  freebsd-boot  (512K)
18:00:56 <Beladona> debdrup ok how to use gmirror like you did?
18:01:03 <debdrup> the ESP is the EFI system partition
18:01:55 <debdrup> Beladona: with all due respect, if you can't use gmirror(8) based on the manual page to set up mirrored ESP, you probably shouldn't be doing it because you risk making your system unbootable.
18:02:03 <Beladona> why not just `dd if=/dev/da1p1  of=/dev/da2p1 bs=1M` ?
18:02:29 <debdrup> That'll have to be an exercise for the reader. :)
18:02:58 <debdrup> The hint would be to look at gpart list, and see that there's a whole bunch of UUIDs which are unique to each partition.
18:03:06 <Beladona> I understand as a document writer and committer, you expect people to read the docs thoroughly.
18:03:22 <debdrup> It's not so much that, although that's also the case.
18:03:33 <Beladona> Yes, I am just here for hints.
18:03:51 <debdrup> It's more that if I tell you how to do this, then you won't really know how to fix if things get broken, and that means that I'm suddenly responsible for fixing it for you.
18:03:51 <Beladona> What would be bad in case of dd?
18:03:56 <debdrup> I already told you.
18:04:53 <Beladona> uniue UUIDs which are unique to each partition will make a huge problem... if I used dd.
18:05:14 <Beladona> s/uniue/unique
18:05:28 <debdrup> There's no such thing as a non-unique UUID.
18:05:29 <Beladona> my best bet is gmirror then
18:05:52 <debdrup> No, your best bet is to figure out what's causing your firmware to not respect the ESP on your second disk.
18:05:55 <Beladona> yes of course. Making same uuid via dd for 2 partitions would be a problem, is what I meant
18:06:00 <debdrup> Because that's t he problem you're trying to solve.
18:06:24 <debdrup> You won't solve your problem by using gmirror, that's just a way of making updating of bootblocks easier.
18:06:31 <Beladona> deeper problem than my scope. This should be done on freebsd side but I will try booting onc emore
18:06:52 <debdrup> FreeBSD can't possibly cover every possible way that UEFI or BIOS firmware gets badly implemented.
18:06:54 <Beladona> This should have been more simpler
18:07:09 <debdrup> It's not FreeBSDs fault that your firmware doesn't work properly.
18:07:14 <Beladona> The booting part in a freebsd mirror I mean
18:07:41 <Beladona> Ok, I will retry and come back
18:07:58 <debdrup> No, because _anything_ else writes to one of the ESPs, your mirror is now forcably desync'd.
18:08:13 <Beladona> thats what I am afraid of
18:08:15 <debdrup> the word 'if' also belongs somewhere in that sentence
18:08:24 <debdrup> Why? It's got nothing to do with your current problem.
18:08:36 <Beladona>  gmirror may intefere
18:08:49 <Beladona> I am not sure
18:08:55 <debdrup> It may, but that's not pertinent to whether your firmware accepts ESPs on random disks.
18:09:08 <debdrup> You asked me about my setup, so I told you - but if I'd known it'd be the source of an XY problem, I wouldn't have mentioned it.
18:10:16 <Beladona> ok
18:14:38 <parv> I want to get off the -CURRENT train. Few months ago I tried to boot with 13-STABLE (compiled on & installed in a separate boot environment) but boot had failed. ZFS pool is a 2-disk mirror. What could I do now so ensure that 13-STABLE would boot?
18:16:33 <parv> Or, would installing a 13 image be the least painful, for some definition, way?
18:22:02 <yuripv> parv: there are stable snapshots
18:24:46 <parv> yuripv, Yes, that is the second method. Was wondering if I could something about boot issue & keep the existing "zroot" pool layout
18:28:28 <ElectricJozin> If I want to make small changes to a package - like improving the man page or default conf, where should I push the commit?
18:28:55 <ElectricJozin> Or do you need to contact the author
18:31:26 <parv> Create a problem report https://bugs.freebsd.org/ ; contact the author
18:31:28 <VimDiesel> Title: FreeBSD Bugzilla Main Page
18:32:40 <ElectricJozin> Well sucky manual page isnt a bug...
18:33:03 <ElectricJozin> ok, and one more thing: after installing doas can I remove sudo or are there any dependencies on it?
18:33:07 <mason> docbug
18:36:02 <yuripv> ElectricJozin: if it's port man page, take it to project's upstream
18:41:49 <parv> List of dependent packages for a given package can be obtained as "pkg info --required-by <package>" ; see "pkg-info(8)" manual page for details
18:46:31 * parv is leaving the keyboard with the IRC client running to collect any more responses about possible steps to take in order to successfully boot in 13 (after compiling 13 on a 14 machine & installing in a different boot env)
20:05:58 <dch> has anybody dealt with DMARC/DKIM settings for freebsd.org mailing lists?
20:13:21 <dch> I'd like to have my domain pretty tight, but still allow f.b.o lists
20:44:56 <parappa> consdering to switch to freebsd on both desktop and server from debian, what should i expect?
20:45:28 <LapsangS> from what
20:45:33 <puddinghead> debian
20:45:40 <puddinghead> which is linux but still
20:46:02 <LapsangS> yes it is a bit different
20:46:22 <puddinghead> seems legit
20:46:45 <puddinghead> main reason why im consdiering to switch is because i feel like debian on server is way too bloated... and then it turns out it has the stuff i want on a desktop too
20:46:59 <puddinghead> but rn im just gonna try it on a virtual machine while trying to recreate my linux setup on bsd
20:47:00 <LapsangS> the standard installation does not include any GUI or even bash
20:47:08 <puddinghead> yeah i've noticed that
20:47:26 <puddinghead> my last debian install or two were minimal ones though so its not something completely alien to me
20:47:43 <LapsangS> first you have to say freebsd-update fetch
20:47:55 <puddinghead> then what?
20:48:02 <LapsangS>  freebsd-update install
20:48:16 <LapsangS> and then pkg install Xorg
20:48:46 <puddinghead> i see
20:48:47 <LapsangS> and then your preferred desktop like KDE
20:48:56 <puddinghead> i use xfce so xfce it is then
20:49:09 <LapsangS> i use it too
20:49:16 <puddinghead> nice
20:49:20 <LapsangS> it works very well
20:49:58 <mason> pkg install xorg - I'm pretty sure case matters
20:50:22 <LapsangS> yeah
20:50:29 <mason> puddinghead: Don't forget to install devcpu-data for CPU microcode.