00:01:27 <meena> that bs thing looks like what lua would look like if it had no coherent design
00:03:01 <debdrup> i think someone's gonna need some ointment after a burn like that
01:20:18 <ngortheone>  agree, I guess it is called "bs" for a reason :P
09:48:09 <Sos> Hi!
09:48:46 <debdrup> lo
09:52:29 <Sos> I want to install FreeBSD on a my X260 to get more familiar with it, since I use it on servers, adn am looking around for WMs/DEs, what's a good one for starters? I can do without a full DE, as long as I have volume / brightness control working
09:52:44 <Sos> tl;dr WM that doesn't suck?
09:53:06 <Sos> I'm browsing threads and screenshots and there's just so many of these
10:01:10 <Sos> or maybe this way
10:01:14 <Sos> what WM are y'all using?
10:06:18 <paulf> KDE
10:28:39 <debdrup> Sos: there's an entire section in the handbook on how to install WMs and DEs.
10:29:01 <Sos> debdrup, i know how to install them
10:29:11 <Sos> just wondering what to choose
10:29:49 <debdrup> Volume control and brightness can (usually) be done via mixer(8) (audio/mixertui if you want a TUI) and backlight(8)
10:30:10 <debdrup> Sos: whichever one you like; I used to use xorg+i3 but switched to wayland+sway.
10:31:13 <debdrup> My workflow is a follows: I put each program on either a separate workspace (or a separate screen, if my laptop is docked), and don't really ever see anything else (no icons, background image, or anything).
10:31:16 <Sos> I would preferably have something minimalistic
10:31:56 <debdrup> I don't know if it's possible to get much more minimalistic than wayland+sway, without abandoning all usability.
10:33:00 <Sos> alright, i'll check it out, thanks!
10:33:56 <debdrup> https://www.freshports.org/wayland has a list of things (terminal emulators, notification daemons, browsers, launchers, et cetera ad nauseum) that'll work with wayland, if you choose to go that route
10:33:57 <VimDiesel> Title: FreshPorts -- wayland
10:36:03 <Sos> thank you
10:50:44 <angry_vincent> i use wayland too, for some years. previously sway, now river. simply because too bored with sway
10:56:42 <Sos> can you run X apps on wayland?
10:57:03 <angry_vincent> i think so, but i do not run any :)
10:59:49 <drobban> o.0
11:00:05 <drobban> angry_vincent: what do you run then?
11:00:40 <angry_vincent> i run terminal, browser and irc client, that's about it
11:02:11 <angry_vincent> i also made some changes to ports, so that can be built without X
11:03:08 <angry_vincent> firefox can be set to build for pure wayland ( i.e not even linking against X libraries )
11:03:20 <angry_vincent> same for emacs
11:04:06 <angry_vincent> there is still a problem ( upstream ) for qt-gui. but maybe it will be sorted in future
11:19:55 <paulf> is there a way to get the default python3 from a script?
11:34:45 <wikan> hi, i need your help
11:35:04 <wikan> i have dell mini pc and i can;t boot any freebsd usb
11:35:15 <wikan> i tried with devian and it works
11:35:51 <wikan> i tried and dvd, memstick
11:35:57 <wikan> both i386 and 64
11:36:13 <wikan> have no idea what now
11:38:10 <al1r4d> I want to ask. Does Bhyve's FreeBSD look the same as VMM's OpenBSD? I see that Bhyve uses the VMM module.
11:55:04 <wikan> ok, i am trying to dd img file to usb
11:55:26 <wikan> but 'gpart show' shows dd didn't do anything
11:55:40 <wikan> how can I remove partitions from usb stick?
11:56:13 <wikan> i am stupid
11:56:20 <wikan> i did of=da0 :|
11:58:44 <debdrup> welp, Sos left - but Xwayland exists to let you run X apps on wayland
13:28:26 <Letiute> It seems that /etc/fstab tmpfs entry does not work. I reboot, do a `mount` and see `tmpfs on /tmp (tmpfs, local)`, `zroot/tmp on /tmp (zfs, local, noat..)` but it actually does NOT work in ram until I manually do `mount -t tmpfs tmpfs /tmp`.   My fstab looks like: `tmpfs 			/tmp 	tmpfs 	rw,mode=777 		0 	0`  What seems to be the problem?
13:28:58 <angry_vincent> it works for me
13:29:07 <Letiute> angry_vincent I am missing something for sure
13:29:20 <angry_vincent> tmpfs   /tmp    tmpfs   rw,nosuid,mode=01777        0       0
13:29:44 <Letiute> when I do mount -t    and run `mount`, I see two entries of tmpfs on /tmp (tmpfs, local)
13:30:19 <Letiute> so add 'nosuid'?    and change mode=01777?
13:30:20 <angry_vincent> maybe you did not destroy zroot/tmp ?
13:30:31 <Letiute> angry_vincent i didn't. should I?
13:30:35 <angry_vincent> Yes
13:30:38 <Letiute> I see
13:30:56 <angry_vincent> because you can't have that simultaneously
13:31:13 <Letiute> zfs destroy zroot/tmp -r ?
13:34:05 <wikan> can you help me write iso image to usb stick using dd?
13:34:19 <wikan> not stop I get "end of device" error
13:34:25 <angry_vincent> maybe, -r not required as there are no children in zroot/tmp
13:35:07 <wikan> for example 16GB USB, aout 3GB ISO - end of device
13:37:20 <AmyMalik> wikan, any other output from dd?
13:37:29 <wikan> summary
13:37:34 <AmyMalik> how are you invoking dd?
13:37:45 <wikan> dd if=IMAGE of=/dev/da0
13:37:54 <AmyMalik> no, how EXACTLY are you invoking dd?
13:38:02 <AmyMalik> the EXACT command line you used?
13:38:22 <AmyMalik> can you show the summary, and also the exact filesize of the ISO you are writing
13:38:36 <wikan>  dd if=FreeBSD-13.1-RELEASE-amd64-dvd1.iso of=/dev/da0
13:38:57 <wikan> dd: /dev/da0: end of device
13:39:24 <wikan> previously gpart destroy -F da0
13:40:43 <wikan> i tried to use stick anyway ut
13:40:47 <wikan> but pc restarts
13:41:15 <tsoome> what does gpart report about da0?
13:41:31 <angry_vincent> after gpart destroy ... did you recreate one?
13:41:44 <wikan> da0 destroyed
13:41:47 <wikan> i didn't
13:42:11 <wikan> i didn't because I "restore" from dd i quess
13:43:32 <yuripv> is "end of device" error from dd?
13:43:40 <wikan> yes
13:43:52 <wikan> now i succefully wrote memstick img
13:44:26 <yuripv> have seen some bugs in bugzilla about hybrid iso updated recently; may be try with memstick image that is more suited for writing on a memstick?
13:45:49 <yuripv> (or may be you have one of those "fake" memsticks that report the size bigger than it really is? :D)
13:50:59 <wikan> where can i learn how to use Partition Editor?
13:54:07 <Letiute> Got OS freeze after deletion of zroot/tmp. Are you still there?
13:54:13 <Letiute> now it works.
13:54:19 <Letiute> do I need to change fstab entry now?
13:54:42 <Letiute> I still have the old one and its working. Don't know if a change is needed and what effect it will make
13:54:51 <Letiute> I lost the chat also
13:55:46 <Letiute> angry_vincent ^
13:56:21 <angry_vincent> Letiute: just run mount /tmp
13:57:17 <Letiute> angry_vincent my `mount` command prints `tmpfs on /tmp (tmpfs, local)` already. Do I need to remount /tmp?
13:57:43 <Letiute> also, anything on zroot/var/tmp?
13:57:50 <angry_vincent> No, it is fine
13:58:16 <Letiute> ya, thought so.
13:58:26 <Letiute> need chant /etc/fstab?
13:58:39 <Letiute> I already have and its working but not like yours
13:58:46 <Letiute> can you repaste?
13:58:57 <angry_vincent> tmpfs   /tmp    tmpfs   rw,nosuid,mode=01777        0       0
13:59:30 <paulf> lost connection - is there a way to get the default python3 from a script?
13:59:45 <Letiute> angry_vincent mine is tmpfs 			/tmp 	tmpfs 	rw,mode=777 		0 	0
14:00:37 <paulf> use awk on /etc/make.conf would probably work, but is there any better way?
14:01:36 <Letiute> angry_vincent how much 01777 vs 777 and nosuid matter?
14:01:58 <CrtxReavr> Pro-tip. . . to add stuff to /etc/fstab, mount it manually how you like, then use 'mount -p' to get the /etc/fstab syntax right.
14:02:37 <llua> someone read the man page
14:03:04 <CrtxReavr> Just been doing this shit since FreeBSD v3.0.
14:03:27 <angry_vincent> Letiute: i copied the line verbatim from FreeBSD wiki
14:03:43 <angry_vincent> Letiute: and yes, man fstab has an example for tmfs entry
14:03:51 <angry_vincent> tmpfs rather
14:04:11 <Letiute> angry_vincent link? I used similar but reslted different
14:04:44 <Letiute> angry_vincent thanks till herer though :thumbsup
14:13:35 <AmyMalik> I personally edit my fstabs by hand, and have never had an issue I couldn't fix - but it is error-prone and what CrtxReavr said is probably advisable.
14:18:48 <CrtxReavr> Thing about "fixing" fstab, is it just might require console access. . .
14:19:16 <CrtxReavr> Which, depending on the situation, could be very problematic.
14:19:55 <CrtxReavr> Might involve a plane ride. . . or access to a virtual "cloud" console, which you may not have immediate rights to.
14:21:36 <CrtxReavr> Or, could involve trying to rely on some knuckledragger in a datacenter, with sketchy language skills to be your eyes and hands, all while you shout at them over the roar of fans and air conditioning.
14:23:03 <CrtxReavr> Three things to avoid breaking at all costs. . . your boot, your network connection, and your ssh access.
14:33:01 <AmyMalik> CrtxReavr, yip.
14:35:04 <CrtxReavr> vi(m) is a great editor but telling someone how to navigate it over the phone. . . no thanks.
14:48:17 <AmyMalik> I have nano on all my systems, so I don't share your pain
14:48:31 <AmyMalik> (yes, I know it's gnu rubbish)
15:08:43 <benaldo__> vi(m) is nice for being ubiquitous... what's wrong with GNU tho? A little militant with the GPL maybe, but are they ALL bad? O.o
15:12:57 <occ> please recommend one software to read epub file under FreeBSD.
15:23:18 <angry_vincent> calibre?
15:43:49 <V_PauAmma_V> That, or fbreader.
16:55:10 <smk> hi this is the channel for live chat for GSoC Live
17:00:04 <benaldo__> Nah this is the channel for FreeBSD :^)
17:02:54 <smk> there was a kiwi IRC link, i thought its for #freebsd here
17:03:03 <smk> nvm i will find it
17:03:20 <smk> its here
17:03:20 <smk> irc.geekshed.net
17:07:55 <meena> cool cool cool https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=270404
17:07:57 <VimDiesel> Title: 270404 – comsat is willing to try to read and display any file
17:21:19 <Letiute> should this be in tmpfs too?  zroot/var/tmp?
17:21:50 <Letiute> which directories get written most like /tmp is? better but them in tmpfs if the system has heavy activity so disk can be saved?
17:24:06 <Letiute> well I guess " Files and directories located in /var/tmp must not be deleted when the system is booted."
17:24:16 <Letiute> any other?
17:26:27 <angry_vincent> Letiute: no, i don't think it should
17:28:24 <Letiute> true
17:28:27 <Letiute> any other optimzation?
17:29:15 <meena> Letiute: if you're using ZFS, you want to leave RAM for ZFS ARC, so, no, you shouldn't put random stuff into tmpfs, unless you have a whole lot of it
17:30:09 <Letiute> I have plenty of ram
17:30:16 <Letiute> but drive is dying
17:30:25 <Letiute> if continues such writes
17:31:33 <meena> okay, but, what's a) what's your use case / workload? and b) if a piece of hardware is on the process of dying you should be looking to replace it
17:31:48 <meena> not shuffle chairs on the titanic
17:33:11 <Letiute> meena  300MiB/s, 70TB writes in 2  weeks
17:33:47 <Letiute> any drive will fail like this. workload: database, image files
17:35:05 <meena> "database", and "image files" sounds like two different workloads
17:37:24 <Letiute> true
17:41:05 <meena> a modern computer is basically just a series of caches, held together by different flavours of firmware and OS which often have competing ideas on how to keep these caches hot.
17:43:01 <meena> if the two workloads you're running are competing, you got a basic recipe for permanently flushed caches
17:43:35 <meena> which then causes more reads to disks that are very busy with writes already
17:57:10 <Demosthenex> meena: i just had a fun one.
17:57:42 <Demosthenex> 50 LUNs of 1 TB each with a 64 queue depth, multiple 16Gbps HBAs, 3200 max IOs, having latency issues of up to 20 ms read latency during the backup window
17:57:51 <Demosthenex> fun!
17:59:20 <Demosthenex> all flash storage. turned out to be a san topology issue on one fabric
18:05:05 <skered> e/pi
18:11:00 <meena> Demosthenex: how long did it take to pin down, and how did you do it?
18:16:03 <debdrup> using dying hardware sure is a great starting point
19:43:33 <Demosthenex> meena: few months, san analysis, nmon data, latency tracking in the db, etc
19:43:51 <Demosthenex> backup ran at 3GB/s and the db server was doing 400MB/s always during that period
20:07:14 <Letiute> Any good vim /neovim like editor in freebsd? lunarvim seems to take care of all the lsp headaches but not in freebsd. ANyother *bsd guys use?
20:08:26 <Demosthenex> emacs.
20:08:34 <Demosthenex> and don't use LSP.
20:12:37 <dh> Letiute: What headaches? I use neovim with manually configured lsp:q
20:18:02 <Letiute> Demosthenex ok
20:18:24 <Letiute> dh well .. its just not automatic.. sometimes things get tough. e.g java
20:18:39 <Letiute> settings, env.
20:18:43 <Letiute> its not  a one liner install
20:18:49 <Letiute> lots of plugin
20:25:28 <Letiute> dh never tried lunarvim?
20:25:37 <Letiute> Demosthenex why no lsp?
20:25:40 <dh> Not that much of an hassle, but then this is what happens when you use rather opinionated monster configuration like lunarvim rather than writing your own configuration
20:26:33 <dh> I think I've tried lunarvim and chadwhatever, they just do way too much and not in very portable way.
20:29:04 * meena uses spacemacs because she doesn't know how to use emacs
20:31:11 <dh> Letiute: Anyway, take time to learn your tools, how to take them apart and put them back together, so you wouldn't be out of your depth when shit breaks
20:34:52 <Letiute> dh I see
20:35:44 <Letiute> dh have you tried remapping capslock with esc, left alt adn ctrl? I did that in linux but hard to do in freebsd
20:36:07 <Letiute> dh if you are a vim user, this would be either obvious for you or helpful
20:40:15 <Letiute> ok, `setxkbmap -layout 'us' -option caps:swapescape` did it for esc/caps. but looking for ctrl/alt
20:48:07 <dh> Letiute: No, I haven't had a need for such remappings
20:48:37 <Demosthenex> Letiute: firstup, why in the world would you want a whole web/rest stack on your localhost to answer editing requests? much less do you want your text editor network enabled and talking to things offsite
20:48:51 <Demosthenex> second, visual basic and M$ use LSP, and that's plenty of reason we shouldn't ever support it
20:49:00 <Letiute> so you move your left pinky all the way to esc each time changing vim modes? I just pres caps :)
20:50:48 <dh> Letiute: No, I don't use pinky. But I also use arrow keys for navigation rather than hjkl and I don't feel any need to adjust my behaviours
20:50:53 <Letiute> Demosthenex I see
20:51:06 <Letiute> dh ok
20:52:15 <dh> LSP is terrbile technology from MS that uses horrid javascript in it's stomach, it does feel like selling your soul to satan a bit, but it fucking works
20:53:47 <dh> Anyway, if it turns ugly, I can live without it too
21:03:18 <Letiute> dh Demosthenex ok but .. well you guys do not use code hinting, docs inline, goto definition? all that stuff that lsp provides
21:04:04 <Letiute> Looks like `man xkeyboard-config` don't have left alt to alft ctrl swap optoin
21:06:08 <Demosthenex> Letiute: those could be done outside of LSP, better.
21:06:32 <Demosthenex> i get all that in emacs without lsp
21:07:14 <dh> Letiute: I do use LSP
21:09:32 <Letiute> Demosthenex I see
21:09:48 <Letiute> dh ok
21:09:59 <Letiute> Demosthenex Is emacs that customizable as vim is?
21:10:15 <Letiute> dh I think you didn't found a better way than using LSP?
21:10:23 <Letiute> dh which lsp you use? LSPIntall?
21:10:29 <Letiute> iirc lspconfig
21:12:07 <dh> nvim-lspconfig
21:12:47 <Letiute> ok
21:13:18 <dh> And installed py39-pyright and stuff .. I mostly write python these days so, perhaps it's more difficult for some other languages, like Java .. but then again it's Java .. it's supposed to be painful
21:16:50 <Letiute> dh never tried emacs ?
21:20:04 <dh> I used emacs exclusively for almost a year a while back, to coincidentally to write Java .. somehow writing Java in emacs was better than in vim at that time, I've tried bunch of various programmers editors and IDE-s over time, ultimately vim beats them all (for me) and neovim has become even better than vim
21:34:52 <Demosthenex> Letiute: is emacs customizable?
21:34:58 <Demosthenex> surely you jest
21:37:24 <la_mettrie> emacs is the most customizable program ever
21:38:07 <Demosthenex> emacs isn't a text editor. it's a LISP machine
21:38:12 <Demosthenex> that can edit text
21:56:24 <Letiute> fantastic
21:56:49 <Letiute> https://youtu.be/VaBdlcYaZLQ?t=1537
21:56:50 <VimDiesel> Title: Vim Versus Emacs. Which Is Better? - YouTube
22:42:30 <meena> it's one of those things where the best thing is the one your hands remember best (without giving you arthritis or similar)