01:02:07 <yuripv> ghoti: why 32bit though? are those mac mini that old?
01:07:13 <spork_css> ghoti: I'd be curious about the model/year as well - some can even run a more recent os-x with rEFInd (https://www.rodsbooks.com/refind/)
01:26:02 <torbo> I have FreeBSD 13.1-RELEASE-p7 installed on both my local and server, both amd64.  Ran `pkg update` and `pkg upgrade`, all packages are latest.  On my local, max available Erlang version is 24, and on the server it's 25.  Anyone know why?
01:26:55 <torbo> The packages aren't locked and neither were built from ports.
01:30:13 <vishwin> quarterly versus latest repositories
01:30:24 <vishwin> -RELEASE is set to quarterly by default
01:31:47 <torbo> Both appear to be set to quarterly.
01:32:27 <torbo> Thanks, vishwin.
01:32:35 <torbo> Any other reason why they may be different?
01:42:52 <spork_css> Perhaps another port or package that depends on that version of erlang?
01:44:14 <spork_css> Although really looks like latest vs. quarterly, as these are the two versions: FreeBSD:13:amd64 	25.2.3,4 (latest) 	24.3.4.6_1,4 (quarterly)
01:46:21 <vishwin> could also be mirror lag
01:47:59 <torbo> Interesting, thank you both.  I am looking at /etc/pkg/FreeBSD.conf on both local and server and they are identical.
01:48:48 <torbo> On both `url` is set to pkg+http://pkg.FreeBSD.org/${ABI}/quarterly and `mirror_type` is set to `srv`.
01:50:43 <debdrup> Does /usr/local/etc/pkg/repos/ exist and have a file in it?
01:51:38 <debdrup> https://wiki.freebsd.org/Ports/QuarterlyBranch#How_to_switch_from_Quarterly_to_Latest describes how to override it without changing /etc/pkg/FreeBSD.conf
01:51:39 <VimDiesel> Title: Ports/QuarterlyBranch - FreeBSD Wiki
01:59:14 <torbo> dedrup: That's it!  On the server the directory does exist and contains FreeBSD.conf which points to latest.  Thank you so much!  All of you!
02:02:10 <torbo> debdrup: Dang, I misspelled your username, sorry about that.  Also, thanks VimDiesel.
03:00:19 <drobban> morning you all!
04:11:22 <ngortheone> how can I assign a bug in bugzilla to me and change it's status?
04:23:26 <vishwin> have to be a project or triage member for that i think
04:24:17 <drobban> ngortheone: https://www.freebsd.org/support/bugreports/
04:24:18 <VimDiesel> Title: Bug Reports | The FreeBSD Project
04:34:19 <ngortheone> drobban: not very helpful, there is no info on how to reassign the bug
04:34:29 <ngortheone> https://docs.freebsd.org/en/articles/pr-guidelines/ says
04:34:31 <VimDiesel> Title: Problem Report Handling Guidelines | FreeBSD Documentation Portal
04:34:43 <ngortheone> "Certain PRs may be reassigned away from these generic assignees by anyone."
04:35:11 <ngortheone> but I can't do it despite the bug I am looking at is assigned to generic freebsd-bugs
04:35:37 <vishwin> normal bugzilla users don't have the permissions to reassign i don't think
04:36:01 <ngortheone> :(
04:36:12 <vishwin> and even then, the assignee is usually an individual committer or team
04:37:13 <ngortheone> oh, well, I will need to become a comitter first. I left comments in those bugs that I am working on them
04:38:36 <drobban> well work on it, if it gets done, it gets done... What are you worried about, I dont understand.
04:39:29 <drobban> is there any project out there that allows random users to reassign issue owners?
04:41:46 <vishwin> not the point
04:42:15 <vishwin> rather, there's not a really good way to signal that something is being worked on or offered up for review or commit, despite the tooling available
04:42:54 <vishwin> unfortunately some committers like to swoop in on stuff without looking
04:44:41 <vishwin> or throw hissy fits for whatever reason...
04:45:13 <drobban> whats the mailing list like? would look there and then announce the intention to work on a certain bug.
04:48:27 <vishwin> easily buried if no replies
08:35:36 <megaTherion> moin
08:36:08 <megaTherion> Someone knows what it mean's if a SAS drive responds as "Write Protected"?
08:40:37 <vkarlsen> megaTherion: Is it formatted with type 2 protection?
08:41:30 * meena doesn't even know what a SAS drive is, really
08:42:43 <vkarlsen> meena: Hint: it's not the Special Air Service's drive
08:43:10 <megaTherion> vkarlsen: I don't know, I got this drive used, Im trying to find more info about this issue
08:43:39 <megaTherion> it's an Seagate Exos which reports as Netapp X380 drive
08:45:53 <vkarlsen> megaTherion: Maybe this might be helpful -- http://talesinit.blogspot.com/2015/11/formatted-with-type-2-protection-huh.html
08:45:54 <VimDiesel> Title: tales in IT from the help desk.: Formatted with Type 2 Protection, huh?
08:52:16 <megaTherion> vkarlsen: I see, well I guess then I'll just return the drive to the seller *shrugs*
08:53:26 <vkarlsen> megaTherion: Which brand is the drive?
08:54:37 <megaTherion> on the label it is an Seagate Exos X10
08:54:52 <megaTherion> but controller says "da4: <NETAPP X380_STATE10TA07 NA00> "
08:55:26 <vkarlsen> Does smartctl report that it has type 2 protection?
08:56:37 <megaTherion> no
08:57:39 <vkarlsen> Then I don't know what it could be
08:58:41 <megaTherion> me neither :D
08:58:49 <megaTherion> I've 7 other Exos' which don't have this particular problem
09:12:54 <Lovis_IX> vkarlsen: not concerned by the issue, but the link is verry usefull. Thanks for sharing.
09:14:01 <vkarlsen> Lovis_IX: Happy to help!
09:37:47 <megaTherion> vkarlsen: it probably is "type 2 protected" as it reports with 520b sectors, however I'll return this drive anyways
10:19:57 <dch> whats a super-lightweight image editor? I need to blank out some PII from a bug report
10:22:16 <ridcully_> dch: not an editor, but gives common features like that for taking screenshots: flameshot
10:25:58 <dch> thanks, good tip!
10:53:11 <dumbbell> angry_vincent: I understand your frustration about never resolved i915 GPU hangs. If it works fine on a recent Linux kernel, then it's a problem in linuxkpi. One common culprit is our I2C implementation, or more exactly the compatibility layer in linuxkpi on top of FreeBSD's own implementation (iic). It might now reproduce the behavior of Linux' i2c correctly. Unfortunately, this part is difficult
10:53:14 <dumbbell> to debug...
10:57:29 <antranigv> If anyone has time, please test Jailer, our Jail Automation tool :) https://weblog.antranigv.am/posts/2023/03/jailer-v0-1-1/
10:57:31 <VimDiesel> Title: Call For Testing: Jailer v0.1.1 | Freedom Be With All
10:59:37 <yuripv> jailer and freedom in the same line
11:00:14 <antranigv> yuripv :D
11:03:37 <angry_vincent> dumbbell: my frustration is not that long lasting, though it really strong :) its good this laptop also has nvidia card, so if i go mad again, i will switch to X.org and nvidia driver. but prefer to wun wayland and intel card
12:06:24 <drobban> antranigv: will try to find some time later today. =)
12:06:32 <antranigv> drobban thank you <3
12:18:06 <anddam> howdy, odd question, are there FBSD logo/mascotte rubber toys available?
12:18:26 <anddam> specifically I am looking for a "RL UNIX-y rubber duck"
12:42:39 <antranigv> anddam there used to be a FreeBSD stress ball
12:47:36 <xtile> The FreeBSD orb logo is honestly very aesthetic.
13:51:05 <dch> <3 the orb
13:51:39 <dch> is there any interest in an invidious port?
13:51:50 <dch> and also, are there any users who know how to admin invidious?
13:52:02 <dch> I've got a local setup here, and it seems easy enough to compile now
13:52:04 <last1> how can I gather if my nfs server is busy or not ? I have this info about the threads: https://pastebin.com/63uiEdJT
13:52:06 <VimDiesel> Title: root 65133 0.0 0.0 17240 984 - Is 5Sep22 0:00.01 nfsd: master (n - Pastebin.com
13:52:09 <dch> but I have no idea how one should use it
14:51:27 <antranigv> dch is that the YouTube thing?
14:51:32 <debdrup> antranigv: https://www.flickr.com/photos/f-andrey/8112124178/in/pool-bsd/ ?
14:52:00 <antranigv> debdrup yup that! never seen one IRL tho
14:52:04 <debdrup> I think FreeBSDMall/iXsystems sold them at one point.
14:52:09 <antranigv> I should check
14:52:13 <debdrup> https://nitter.nl/iXsystems/status/1042841206969884672
14:52:14 <VimDiesel> Title: iX (@iXsystems): "Items: 3 FreeBSD Notepads 1 FreeBSD Stress Ball 1 FreeBSD Hat 2 Daemon horns 5 sets of #FreeNAS Stickers 5 Retro FreeNAS wristbands 2 iX Screwdrivers 2 Retro FreeNAS T-Shirts (Size Small) 1 FreeNAS T-Shirt (your size)"|nitter
14:52:57 <antranigv> All I have is too many FreeBSD stickers and a FreeBSD cap.
14:53:17 <antranigv> Altho I'm thinking of doing a tattoo
14:53:31 <antranigv> would go nice next to my glider tattoo :P
14:53:35 <debdrup> https://www.ixsystems.com/blog/upcoming-fall-tradeshows/ also mentions them and that publishing date lines up with the photo.
14:53:37 <VimDiesel> Title: Upcoming Fall Tradeshows - iXsystems, Inc. - Enterprise Storage & Servers
14:53:54 <debdrup> So it seems likely they were manufactured a decade ago.
14:54:22 <antranigv> yeah, 2012 according to the blog post
14:55:01 <debdrup> I think the user who took that picture might be kami@
15:18:55 <psionic> is ZFS protects you against bitrot in case of cold storage? Like u buy a drive do ZFS on it put it in a safe for 10 years, is that any better than doing the same with XFS or EXT4?
15:19:17 <psionic> or it only works if the shit keeps running and it does its scrubbing thingy all day
15:19:23 <debdrup> Any RAID needs regular patrol scrubs to work, not just ZFS.
15:19:48 <debdrup> ZFS happens to do a better job than any other filesystem, but it's not immune to needing patrol scrubs.
15:20:44 <debdrup> Even media that's intended to be cold storage, such as floppies or optical media, only promise to last for a few decades at most - and that's if you store it in optimal conditions.
15:21:22 <debdrup> XFS doesn't have full checksumming, and EXT4 doesn't have any checksumming at all - so there's no point in even comparing them.
15:32:46 <psionic> so how about I take it out once a year and do a full scrubbing on it is that helps?
15:33:46 <psionic> or maybe I should consider ultrium DAT tapes for long term storage
15:33:48 <psionic> Laughs Out Loud
15:37:19 <debdrup> sequential access medium is still offline storage, as is "plug it in occationally"
15:37:52 <psionic> so these things can do 45TB these days ... amazing still not a big fan of slow tapes
15:38:42 <debdrup> they can do 45TB if your data compresses well, and they're EXCEPTIONALLY slow to operate and require a fair bit of infrastructure (both in terms of software, but also tapes plus the actual robot in a chassis) to get set up properly
15:38:56 <debdrup> if you have binary data or multimedia, it doesn't compress well.
15:39:11 <debdrup> multimedia especially, because it's already compressed
15:40:23 <debdrup> a good backup solution is: 3 copies of the data, 2 types of media (meaning not the same filesystem), and 1 offline offsite backup
15:41:14 <debdrup> if you want to improve things you add one to each of those categories and look into RPO and RTO
15:42:12 <psionic> I store everything encrypted so it surely doesnt compress well :X
15:48:02 <sozuba> 1st freebsd (any bsd) install in my life. Excited and playing around
17:11:13 <debdrup> sozuba: neat! Remember that the handbook is your friend, and that if you get into trouble, you're welcome to ask questions in this channel (though I'll get on my soapbox for a bit to mention that it's best not to ask specific people; if someone knows and has time, they'll help ;))
18:05:55 <antranigv> drobban how's your Linux join going?
18:06:02 <antranigv> drobban s/join/jail
18:14:54 <ghoti> yuripv, spork_css: sorry for the delay. The mac in front of me identifies as "Macmini1,1". It is 1.66GHz, 2GB DDR2 RAM, 60GB disk. I think it's from 2011.
18:16:15 <ghoti> antranigv: I don't recall if I asked you... What are you using for jail.conf updates? Is there a library to abstract edits, or did you write something from scratch to interpret and change it?
18:31:55 <psionic> my linsux is jailed by systemd :*
18:33:34 <antranigv> ghoti I didn't understand the question very well.
19:22:39 <ghoti> antranigv: I meant, when your tool edits /etc/jail.conf, how does it do it? Is there a standard library that abstracts the jail config and can apply changes, or did you write code yourself to edit jail.conf?
20:06:45 <mns> how do I get pkg to not upgrade a package that was installed via ports using 'make install' ?
20:11:41 <Lovis_IX> mns: the opposite exist (lock a installed package to avoid update or upgrade) pkg-lock(8), but I have to other anwser for you, sorry.
20:35:27 <CrtxReavr> mns, I think what Lovis_IX described, is exactly what you're looking for.
20:37:43 <Lovis_IX> CrtxReavr: not sure, pkg-lock(8) lock pkg installed packages, not the make install one (or I miss something which is a high possibility).
20:39:24 <mns> pkg lock will lock it in pkg, as far as I can tell from the man pages.  so this goes back to not mixing pkg and ports it seems.
20:39:43 <daemon> been a rule since it was pkg_add and cvsup
20:40:27 <daemon> for what its worth I like the minimal freebsd install then portmaster, then ports via git
20:40:28 <daemon> but eh ~
20:40:42 <daemon> well 'git lite'
20:40:48 <CrtxReavr> packages and ports are the same system. . . they're interchangeable.
20:40:59 <daemon> CrtxReavr, they theoretically are
20:41:05 <daemon> but it never works out that way over time
20:41:13 <daemon> and never has
20:41:32 <CrtxReavr> Been doing this since v3.0.
20:41:33 <mns> yeah and I've usually used pkg.  for this one thing, I dont want to install www/rt50 with apach24 and mysql support,  I want mariadb and lighttpd.  hence the use of ports.
20:41:39 <daemon> when your pkg update overrides your custom optioned openvpn, nginx or ... w/e
20:41:41 <CrtxReavr> Had very minimal issues.
20:42:41 <daemon> I guess it depends on how many options you change in 'make config' on your ports
20:42:52 <daemon> for me it usually ends up absolutely incompatible within a few hours
20:43:31 <daemon> that being said you could always use something like poundriere (sp?) to build your own custom pkg set
20:43:44 <daemon> but at that point unless you are deploying to a fleet of machines its easier to just use normal ports
20:45:39 <mns> its not worth it in my case.  I very rarely have options to update.  This is one of those very rare cases.
20:45:41 <CrtxReavr> hahah
20:45:52 <CrtxReavr> Hours, really?
20:45:54 <CrtxReavr> Do go on.
20:46:10 <daemon> CrtxReavr, the moment I do not want X :)
20:47:16 <daemon> well that and docs
20:53:55 <CrtxReavr> If there's a problematic port. . . or something you maintain by hand, or build by hand, you could always create a sparate prefix from /usr/local/.
20:54:04 <CrtxReavr> Anything like that I put in /usr/opt/
20:54:40 <CrtxReavr> That way ports/packages won't knock heads with it.
20:54:57 <CrtxReavr> YOu can just temporarily set a PREFIX var while building/installing it.
20:55:21 <CrtxReavr> Or via the configure script, if it's a standard-ish tar-ball.
20:56:06 <CrtxReavr> Multiple settings for rc.conf to support that sorta thing.
20:56:43 <CrtxReavr> local_startup="/usr/local/etc/rc.d" # startup script dirs.
20:56:54 <CrtxReavr> YOU can add /usr/opt/etc/rc.d to that.
20:57:13 <CrtxReavr> If you're running daemons out of there.
21:21:59 <debdrup> CrtxReavr: you can intermix packages and ports if you know what you're doing, but it's not something to recommend to everyone or even anyone because it increases the changes of breakages and it's usually not the first thing people think to mention whenever they're describing a problem they have so it often leads to XY issues.
21:33:42 <spork_css> I really fell in love with pkg, but there's always that handful of common ports that skip options to I guess keep the number of dependencies down.
21:34:54 <spork_css> So I'll build those locally and "pkg lock" helps me remember I've done that - for example, postfix/dovecot with an SQL backend, if I "pkg upgrade" and one of those requires an upgrade when mysql gets bumped up a version, the lock prevents the upgrade from happening.
21:35:19 <spork_css> nginx always needs a local build to turn on the proxy IP forwarding thing.
21:36:14 <spork_css> Meanwhile some other ports have bizarre deps that seem very niche, but I guess this all stems from having such a wide range of maintainers with different ideas about keeping deps in check.
21:37:01 <debdrup> I'd recommend using poudriere to build packages, nginx to host your own packages, and then using pkg to set up multiple repositories with different priorities so that the things you want to have custom options get installed from your repo, whereas everything gets installed from FreeBSDs repo.
21:37:32 <debdrup> This can work especially well if you use thin repos, which downloads dependencies from FreeBSDs repo.
21:53:54 <antranigv> ghoti I just generate a jail.conf but I put it into /etc/jail.conf.d/jailname.conf :) and when we do `jail edit` we just edit that specific file.
22:07:52 <p4x639> just installed freebsd today on a 2nd nvme drive with auto zfs, it doens't even boot even when i chose the 2nd disk to boot from and falls back to windows immediately don't know what's wrong
22:08:20 <daemon> disable secure boot
22:08:28 <p4x639> already disabled
22:08:43 <p4x639> i'll try again, maybe with mbr+gpt this time
22:08:47 <daemon> got a spare usb pen?
22:08:52 <p4x639> yeah
22:09:06 <daemon> boot the installer however you like, target the spare usb pen as the install media with UFS
22:09:14 <p4x639> also couldn't connect to wifi, i've an ax 201 from intel
22:09:16 <daemon> target the pen from boot from the bios boot menu
22:09:28 <daemon> just as a proof it canboot
22:09:42 <p4x639> you mean to install on an usb drive? not really happy with not that fast
22:09:59 <p4x639> it can boot as i installed it with ufs manual partitioning once hmm
22:10:04 <daemon> its not a permenant solution more a proof of concept
22:10:14 <p4x639> know what you mean hmm
22:10:58 <daemon> to be honest I always stick a couple sata's or small ssd's in GEOM_MIRROR on UFS and enable legacy boot on new systems
22:11:07 <daemon> then mount ZFS late with all my real drives
22:11:08 <daemon> it just works
22:11:28 <p4x639> why that?
22:11:49 <daemon> well unless the raid1 mirror fails you always have a working system
22:12:00 <daemon> everything else like the zpools is loaded secondarily
22:12:04 <p4x639> oh hmm don't have raid1 but i see your point there
22:12:12 <p4x639> is ufs faster?
22:12:13 <daemon> two usb pens would work too
22:12:20 <daemon> afterall its not like its high IO
22:12:24 <daemon> its just the boot point
22:12:32 <daemon> faster in what respect
22:13:20 <daemon> general use? hell no
22:13:24 <daemon> ZFS is miles faster
22:13:33 <daemon> but stability wise, simplicity is god
22:13:57 <daemon> I do the same stratergy with linux, ext mirrored on standard raid for the base system
22:14:01 <daemon> drag ZFS in later
22:14:22 <daemon> its my own personal opinion I just find that the older stuff seems far more stable
22:15:05 <p4x639> not a fan of raid
22:15:29 <p4x639> just wanted zfs to play with it nd jails :)
22:15:51 <daemon> the way I look at it; be it BSD, windows, linux or ???OS; the first priority is it boots stable - just the kernel and userland, not even the daemons
22:16:08 <daemon> if you have that, then you can use reiserfs via nfs mount via a zpool if you wish
22:16:17 <daemon> start with a strong foundation
22:17:06 <daemon> I think that is why in some servers they have the ability to boot off microsd cards, the point being the core OS boots, everything else is external
22:18:02 <p4x639> not very reliable
22:18:22 <daemon> very reliable if read only
22:18:45 <daemon> remember you can always mount swap, usr etc.. late
22:19:40 <p4x639> just want to have it simple
22:19:46 <p4x639> just go with the defaults
22:20:04 <daemon> then install to a cheap usb pen and try boot it
22:20:12 <daemon> if it boots your bios is happy
22:20:20 <p4x639> dont like :P
22:20:21 <daemon> then you can figure out the drive stuff
22:20:27 <daemon> problem solving
22:20:39 <daemon> do you know what is wrong right now
22:20:45 <daemon> is it the bios? is it the bsd install?
22:20:50 <daemon> isolate which it is
22:20:52 <p4x639> i just try it again :D
22:20:58 <daemon> :-)
22:21:03 <p4x639> ty for your help daemon :)
22:21:40 <daemon> np and good luck; and if you get really stuck try slapping a cheap SATA/SSD disk in and installing to that (I assume you are targettign an nvme atm) ;)
22:22:15 <p4x639> ತಎತ
22:22:24 <p4x639> •_•)
22:22:26 <p4x639> :)
22:31:56 <rtyler> O_O
22:33:41 <p4x639> (✖╭╮✖)
22:34:33 <rtyler> antranigv: what are you and dexter thinking about discussing in a weekly call about jails?
22:38:42 <CrtxReavr> H̉e͑y͗, n̙o̡ f̘͂uͪ̕n̯̿n͉̣y̧̼ c̪̖h̲ͧă̝r̺̅a̲̋c̡̙t̄͞e͓̅rͤ͐s͔̤!
22:38:57 <p4x639> holy
22:40:14 <vext01> is it me, or does `persist` not work in doas on freebsd?
22:41:16 <vext01> oh, i see
22:41:22 <vext01> pfft, that's annoying
23:18:43 <antranigv> rtyler well... about Jails :D Q&A with users, understanding what common issues everyone has, how can we fix them, etc et.
23:40:53 <meena> antranigv: one of the most common issues I'm seeing on here is: oh no, iocage is out of support?! what do i use now?