00:00:36 <ketas> oh well
00:20:48 <ketas> definitely huge explosion of knowledge for me with internet
01:37:53 <platypus_laser> Is anyone here au fait with buildbot? I'm trying to set it up in a jail but for some reason when I try to start the service I'm getting "error reading '/var/buildbot-worker/buildbot.tac': Permission denied"
01:38:32 <platypus_laser> Running buildbot-worker from inside the directory as the assigned buildbot-worker user works fine (seemingly)
02:52:54 <platypus_laser> Re: the above, I fixed it. Found out what had changed in between when the guide I was reading was written and now
03:11:44 <cpet> wtf is build bot and wtf do we care ?
03:12:29 <rtprio> it... builds things
03:14:31 <cpet> can it build my house ?
03:15:03 <zykotick9> A screenshot of the various "fetch" programs I could find in ports https://ibb.co/gDnTPD2 I like how ufetch and rsfetch report my DE/WM as mame... I understand it's grabing the incorrect value from .xinitrc but it's still funny IMO.  Are there any "fetch" programs anyone uses I'm missing from ports?
03:15:04 <VimDiesel> Title: 2023-01-27-220559-1920x1080-scrot hosted at ImgBB — ImgBB
03:17:04 <cpet> which fetch ?
03:17:09 <cpet> base comes with one
03:17:44 <zykotick9> cpet: different sort of fetch
03:17:58 <cpet> fetch beer ?
03:18:10 <zykotick9> is that is ports?  ;)
03:18:15 <cpet> it can be
03:19:05 <cpet> going to update hiawatha think I still maintain that
03:20:14 <cpet> then do some magic with my yubico card
03:20:50 <zykotick9> s/that is/that in/
03:21:34 <cpet> knew what you meant
10:05:12 <meena> cpet: it took about ten years from the first ideas of VNET until the first release. In that regard, PkgBase is on track for the usual timelines at FreeBSD
14:57:05 <meena> https://klarasystems.com/articles/virtualize-your-network-on-freebsd-with-vnet/ 2003 - 2009 for the first release, and then 2018 it came to GENERIC
14:57:06 <VimDiesel> Title: Virtualize Your Network on FreeBSD with VNET | Klara Inc
16:09:42 <debdrup> vnet is a bit of a special case, because it's a specific implementation of the generalized idea of VIMAGE
16:11:03 <debdrup> VIMAGE would've been something between a NetBSD rump kernel and DragonFlyBSD vKernel.
16:26:23 <meena> debdrup: can you elaborate on that?
16:28:37 <debdrup> meena: elaborate on what?
16:30:22 <meena> "VIMAGE would've been something between a NetBSD rump kernel and DragonFlyBSD vKernel." — i don't know vKernel, and i always thought rump kernel was just a very stripped down NetBSD
16:32:01 <debdrup> meena: well, it's based on my understanding of a part of the VIMAGE paper that Marco Zec did as part of his time at University of Zagreb
16:32:56 <debdrup> There's some details in it that make it seem more than just vnet, at least.
16:35:52 <meena> maybe i should read that paper then. maybe it had some ideas already that i still need
16:36:46 <debdrup> It's on papers.freebsd.org and I think it's from 2003
16:36:48 <meena> tho, to be fair, networking is probably the most difficult part about containerised OS partitioning
16:37:25 <debdrup> meena: which at least goes some way towards explaining why it took a bit longer than one might've hoped, because for the majority of the time since the paper came out, nobody was doing containerized OS' like FreeBSD
16:37:38 <debdrup> almost nobody, anyway
16:38:28 <meena> https://papers.freebsd.org/2003/zec-vimage/
16:38:29 <VimDiesel> Title: Implementing a Clonable Network Stack in the FreeBSD Kernel :: FreeBSD Presentations and Papers
16:39:02 <meena> debdrup: Solaris zones are pretty old
16:39:46 <meena> but most Solaris shops just used them as super lightweight VMs
16:40:20 <meena> "entire distribution" in a zone
16:40:24 <debdrup> Yep.
16:41:12 <meena> I'm extremely excited for dfr's work
16:41:30 <meena> which is funny, cuz he seems quite excited and my work
16:41:31 <debdrup> what part of his work? he's got a lot going?
16:41:46 <debdrup> well i'm excited for both your works
16:41:51 <meena> the podman stuff
16:42:30 <meena> he's using PkgBase.live to build extremely smol images of jails
16:43:05 <dubiousness> Morning, is there a way to see "cpu steal" on FreeBSD? Specifically looking at a VM that I think may be contended.
16:44:49 <debdrup> dubiousness: you could dtrace it
16:45:08 <debdrup> Another way of finding out if that's the issue is to set affinities with cpuset(8).
16:47:23 <dubiousness> debdrup: for the latter, do you mean on the HV?
16:47:41 <dubiousness> Also, any examples of dtrace'ing that? I'm not familiar with dtrace (beyond knowing what it is)
16:47:48 <debdrup> dubiousness: you run cpuset on the bhyve process, yes
16:48:18 <debdrup> dubiousness: sysutils/dtrace-toolkit should contain some examples, and there's a fair bit of documentation on dtrace to be found online
16:48:42 <dubiousness> Sorry, should have contextualised better, this VM is actually in a cloud provider :tm: and not under my direct control :)
16:48:52 <dubiousness> I'll have a read over the docs and see if I can spot anything
16:48:54 <dubiousness> thank you
16:50:32 <debdrup> Go yell at your butt provider then, or find one that doesn't oversubscribe their hardware (good luck, it's the only way it's possible to make money in the butt business)
16:51:30 <dubiousness> Could do, I just wanted to prove things out before I jumped to that assumption.
16:52:01 <meena> (I thought for a second Marko's name was missing letters, but it just means 🐰)
16:52:42 <meena> most cloud providers provide VMs that aren't oversubscribed, at a premium
16:53:45 <debdrup> meena: it's priced the same way bare metal is, so at that point there's no reason not to have bare metal.
16:54:58 <meena> if you don't have time and skill to manage metal, all you'll do is cut yourself
16:55:27 <meena> it's a good way to learn, or lose fingers / customers
16:55:35 <debdrup> How's that different from putting your fingers in the butt?
16:55:39 <daemon> you could argue the time it would take t oget the basics down would be less painful than the cost over time of dealing with anything with 'cloud' related to it
16:56:56 <daemon> are cloud providers now known as 'butts' lol
17:00:48 <V_PauAmma_V> There's a browser plugin that does s/the cloud/your butt/g. I think debdrup is referring to that.
17:01:00 <debdrup> Yup.
17:01:21 <meena> I think debdrup *is* that plugin
17:01:28 <debdrup> That's entirely possible.
17:02:15 <V_PauAmma_V> examine debdrup
17:02:27 <debdrup> Beep, boop.
17:04:04 <V_PauAmma_V> Go wash your speakers with soap!
17:05:10 <daemon> ah :)
17:37:26 <ngortheone> good morning
17:38:12 <xtile> mornin', ngortheone
19:49:46 <Kit_Leopold> Hello! Please tell me the correct way to use Windows 10 systems and
19:49:46 <Kit_Leopold> freebsd on one machine. Windows 10 is installed in UEFI GPT mode. For double
19:49:46 <Kit_Leopold> Boot two systems will need to install GRUB?
19:57:31 <meena> Kit_Leopold: apparently, loader(8) can chain boot windows
19:58:51 <ketas> eh
20:00:28 <Kit_Leopold> meena: apparently, loader(8) can chain boot windows  [00:57]
20:00:28 <Kit_Leopold> <ketas> eh  [00:58]
20:00:29 <Kit_Leopold> ERC> meena: apparently, loader(8) can chain boot windows  [00:57]
20:00:29 <Kit_Leopold> <ketas> eh  [00:58]
20:00:38 <Kit_Leopold> ERC> meena: Thanks for the reply, I'll read more about it.
22:10:47 <meena> i keep forgetting that the FreeBSD VM images come with UFS and not ZFS…
22:23:55 <harpia> to keep a stable/13 installation up-to-date you really have to build from source every time? I'm following this (https://docs.freebsd.org/en/books/handbook/cutting-edge/#makeworld) but the building process is taking forever on this cheap laptop.
22:23:57 <VimDiesel> Title: Chapter 25. Updating and Upgrading FreeBSD | FreeBSD Documentation Portal
22:27:28 <souji> harpia: To update your system: yes
22:28:18 <souji> building the Kernel does not take that much time
22:29:50 <souji> And I think someone mentioned once that you can build world using ccache, which would speed up the building process.
22:54:21 <rwp> meena, Convert it from UFS to ZFS in place! https://people.freebsd.org/~lidl/blog/re-root.html
22:54:22 <VimDiesel> Title: Using FreeBSD's re-root capability
23:11:20 <meena> rwp: i could just setup another VM…
23:21:44 <harpia> My "uname -r" went from 13.1-STABLE to 13.2-PRERELEASE after the "make installkernel". I'm updating from branch stable/13. To remain on 13.1 I should have picked the branch releng/13.1, right? The name, releng, what does it stand for? Release engineering?
23:46:00 <meena> rwp: horrific. terrible. i love it.