01:02:39 Hello. 01:12:33 rwp: I hear ya, but the old-school traditionalist in *me* would have used nslookup and awk, none of this newfangled `dig` stuff. ;) Why would you pick `host` over `dig` at this point, btw? 01:18:16 I just like the simpler format of the bind9 host format as being easier to work with generally. 01:18:38 Unfortunately there is a util-linux host (or something elsewhere) that has a somewhat different host command. Gack. 01:19:16 I have never really liked nslookup's format which I find rather more difficult to work with and so am personally definitely not attached to nsslookup. 01:19:53 But in FreeBSD I thought instead of dig it was "drill baby drill" and I haven't ever yet used drill myself yet. :-) 01:22:27 As long as we are talking about this topic I'll mention "getent" which looks things up like gethostbyname(3) does using nsswitch.conf and all. 01:22:53 Try "getent hosts example.com" for example. 01:24:22 That's not apropos for your task of looking up pure DNS TXT records. But for gethostbyname(3) for host addresses it does lookup through /etc/nsswitch.conf so that is useful for that reason. 01:41:59 check local /etc/, then check nis+ tables on network, then check dns, nsswitch.conf had purpose back in day anyway... files nis+ dns was sweet... 01:42:26 resolv.conf nsswitch.conf combo 01:43:43 i had sweet 500 sun boxes spread over 9 floors 3 buildings, you could log in anywhere get unique desktop..and this was before winnt3.51 01:44:07 nis+ nfs made it all possibe 01:47:18 before freebsd or netbsd or openbsd..old ass tech....solaris 2.x tech..1991 and such 01:48:38 moving /etc onto the network yp/nis nis+ 01:50:22 the network is the computer mantra 03:45:50 rwp: I always like to make things portable if I can, and I believe nslookup is more universally consistent than host. I like FreeBSD's host better too, but I started with nslookup, so it's not uncomfortable. 03:46:17 And yes, getent is great, just not for this task. :) 05:57:23 ghoti, Since I install bind-tools that's the same host command as with bind9-host that I install on Debian/Ubuntu/etc systems. So for me it is actually extremely portable. 05:57:52 And I just went looking and it looks like the other one I mentioned that was different has now departed the scene on Debian. So I guess I don't need to worry about it anymore. 05:58:41 When I worked on legacy Unix systems such as HP-UX they never had dig natively installed. It was only installed if I had installed it myself. 05:59:00 And so I fell into the routine of having host on those systems but no dig. 06:00:39 With nslookup example.com | awk '/^Address:/{print$NF}' one has to strip out the first address line which is the nameserver address line. Annoying! 06:02:43 I know I can | awk '/^Address/ && NR != 2 {print$NF}' to avoid it but I still find it an annoying format. 06:03:20 But I can see the argument that nslookup is pretty much always available. 06:33:43 nslookup isnt a thinkg its either drill or host 06:33:52 or you have bind-tools installed 06:39:49 Only getent and drill are in core. The others are all in ports. 06:48:08 do a which host 06:48:11 and rephrase 07:12:51 Let me phrase it like this https://bsd.to/4ZTS/raw 07:12:52 Title: 4ZTS 08:50:32 drill? 08:51:02 didnt know of that one 08:53:20 rtprio: we've had it since switching to unbound in base 10:30:56 i just wish freebsd had iproute2 10:31:07 its the one thing i think linux got right 10:31:40 what's wrong with ifconfig? 10:33:39 its a very weird interface by comparison. soon as i knew about `ip` i switched and havent regretted it, but now on bsd it feels like going back to the dark ages 10:34:33 i havent tried firewalling on freebsd yet so cant speak for how that compares to nftables, but https://lartc.vger.kernel.narkive.com/IdY05qwn/iproute2-in-freebsd 10:34:34 Title: Iproute2 in FreebSD 10:39:09 "21 years ago" 10:41:14 ah, no wonder it references iptables :D 10:42:09 "Ipfw has less bugs and more documentation as IPROUTE2." I think by now, iproute2 is well documented, and I'm sure it didn't take 21 years 10:45:21 ixmpp: a BSD ifconfig can do everything that ip addr, and ip link can do. it also can be used to configure WiFi. and it can be used to read almost the entire state of a network device. something that on Linux people read Kernel virtual files in /sys/class/net//* 10:46:40 it can, but ifconfig (while still being around on linux) is just not used on linux, because `ip` is just unarguably a better interface 10:47:02 not saying it's got more features, i just wish freebsd would adopt the interface 10:47:35 yes, but: Linux ifconfig and BSD's ifconfig are just named the same. they're not even close in category of tool 10:48:58 BSD's ifconfig is much closer in interface to Linux ip link and ip addr. the only difference is that ip route is a separate beast 10:49:46 huh, it has been a while but it seems to behave similar, at least 10:50:08 but yeah i noted having to go back to `arp` and friends, too 10:50:34 first off: the output is completely different, and always has been 10:51:35 * meena should know, she wrote a parser for it: https://github.com/canonical/cloud-init/blob/main/cloudinit/distros/parsers/ifconfig.py 10:54:54 undoubtedly, but when i run ifconfig in both, looks pretty similar to me, and pretty different to the `ip a` output 10:56:04 ifconfig, by default, is ip a + ip link 10:56:11 https://upload.xa0.uk:5281/upload/6UUJLG5LqhRX0uSR2Bxl-SVO/zb2rhoAZD6vum7tyYEZaEdLghgESz2DmguGQ3PhCcRe7vMHQt.jpg 10:56:12 https://upload.xa0.uk:5281/upload/CMuiatOVHNTOgJwwro-GU7M1/zb2rhbU1Vn7zvpDqjGbwtdZuvWxNCdi1Z424KGYCzBWStB8Dr.jpg 10:56:12 https://upload.xa0.uk:5281/upload/wFOOSxDWgOgJecGMYWPJNMuD/zb2rhodEn584JMVv7Czr7wjhcsfJBRCbbaYh8cweynxHZwCR7.jpg 10:59:18 the manpages do reveal more of the differences though 11:00:46 i wonder if i'll ever like this over iproute2... 11:04:35 🤷🏻‍♀️ 11:05:37 it's a solid interface that's been kept backwards compatible for decades. 11:06:53 that emoji is "decomposed" for me :) 11:07:02 It'd be pretty difficult port iproute2, because it's bound to be highly Linux specific. And while we have a lot of APIs (or KPIs) implemented from Linux, i don't if it's the right ones to just port iproute2 11:07:56 and regarding nftables.. what's the status? last time I checked it it was still in development 11:08:14 otoh, it would make more sense to do a clean room reimplementation for FreeBSD's native APIs, since the code is probably GPL, so we couldn't bundle it in base 11:08:55 yuripv: https://emojipedia.org/woman-shrugging-light-skin-tone/ 11:08:57 Title: 🤷🏻‍♀️ Woman Shrugging: Light Skin Tone Emoji 11:08:57 and regarding firewalls pf on FreeBSD is vastly superior to iptables 11:09:11 mage: should be fairly usable 11:10:32 mage: well… except for: https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=268717 11:10:34 Title: 268717 – [pf] rdr rules don't work for traffic originating at localhost 11:11:50 Yay for peepee games 11:14:51 mage: nftables is "done" :) been using it some tim now, it's such a breath of fresh air over iptables, and there are compatibility layers, for stubborn programs 11:15:24 mage: what about ipfw? 11:17:00 I haven't used ipfw so can't comment 11:18:00 and pf on openbsd is vasely better than the one in FreeBSD 11:18:09 who cares just use the one thats suites you 11:18:12 true 11:19:23 hard to judge without having used both for a while 11:19:32 but i assume pf is closer to nft 11:19:43 meena: yeah, I see a "man-shrugging", light rectangle, and "woman" sign; wonder if it's irssi not built with utf8proc 11:19:52 except when you need it to use more than one CPU: https://www.openbsd.org/faq/pf/perf.html 11:19:53 Title: OpenBSD PF: Performance 11:20:14 yuripv: I thought it's person-shrugging 11:20:19 openbsd isnt meant for speed 11:20:28 should of been your first read rather that one 11:20:36 meena: ipfw fan i take it 11:20:36 yuripv: which terminal are you using it in? 11:20:45 windows terminal 11:20:47 * yuripv runs 11:20:52 😱 11:20:59 ixmpp: on the contrary :D 11:21:10 jesus christ these OS wars are stupid 11:21:40 ixmpp: it seems whichever thing you start with in FreeBSD, you just stick with, forever. I started with pf 11:22:05 huh 11:22:07 ok 11:22:35 i like how you can have a relatively decetn fw using 6 options in rc.conf 11:22:36 yuripv: weird, but might be because of mismatch between UTF-8 and Windows UTF-16 11:24:10 I wonder if you can tell Windows terminal to expect UTF-8, or irssi to translate to UTF-16 11:26:06 and then, it might just be that you need fonts which can display the full range 11:27:17 meena: nah, i'm using ssh to freebsd box from windows terminal, so essentially it should be "xterm-256color", and likely has to do with FreeBSD's ctype data 11:27:39 so, does anyone know if IPFW can do this: https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=268717 ? 11:27:41 Title: 268717 – [pf] rdr rules don't work for traffic originating at localhost 11:29:06 so this is something that iptables and nftables can do, and is frequently used in container setups 11:31:08 (just from the name, i would expect: no) 11:31:57 (speaking of names: NFTables has to be retroactively the worst name ever) 11:54:27 hindsight 20/20 12:02:14 why? 12:04:43 NFTs 12:45:12 * ixmpp ipfw set up 👍 12:54:06 ok, so every few days when my laptop is idle (screensaver + monitors on standby), xorg will delete all the input devices. i can't recover w/o restarting xdm/X11. https://termbin.com/fh1k any ideas? 13:08:03 meena: even with a single core, openbsd's pf out performs freebsd's. 13:16:04 so why r ppl still using fbsd? 13:19:42 because they can and want? 13:31:48 R cause are is too hard 13:32:02 Always thought evinput adds and removes on the fly 13:46:46 imhaveto get go gone now 13:47:03 dont forget! 13:47:06 www.freebsddiary.org 13:54:46 ... 14:13:01 Old as hell haven’t heard that site in a long time it’s just like defcon1 14:39:04 zfs question: is there any benefit in scrubbing SSDs? 14:39:21 14:45:43 4 4 2 1 1 1 0 14:49:08 * meena imagines jbo actually scrubbing SSDs 15:05:27 No ssd don’t need that 15:07:26 alright, thanks 16:04:22 I was thinking... is there any chance of 802.11ax working on freebsd? 16:07:17 Someone is working on adding WiFi features, but I don't know the specifics or the timeline. 16:09:37 Adrian as far as I know is our only Wi-Fi guy so 16:09:45 https://www.freebsd.org/status/report-2022-10-2022-12/#_wireless_updates says 11ac. 16:09:47 Title: FreeBSD Status Report Fourth Quarter 2022 | The FreeBSD Project 16:10:30 yeah... i need 11ax 16:10:40 i think im gonna wait some time haha 16:17:23 In the bsd world good luck with wanting what you want without taking the initiative to help out 16:17:51 So factors will make wifi degrade regard 16:18:22 Less 16:20:53 Since the FreeBSD Foundation is sponsoring work in a related area, maybe get in touch with them and ask whether/how you can help make 11ax happen? 16:28:54 V_PauAmma_V: yeah, ill do that 16:29:11 jbo: scrubbing is the only way to check every single block (mirror, stripes with distributed parity, or ditto). 16:33:59 debdrup, sounds like scrubbing an ssd pool makes sense then 16:34:10 jbo: all pools should be scrubbed. 16:34:54 debdrup, I know this is an open question but to get a bit of a reference/feeling: how often would one want to scrup a pool? 16:35:01 like once per day? once per week? once per month? ...? 16:35:52 jbo: the default in FreeBSD is a threshold of 30 days; meaning once 30 days has passed since the last scrub, another will be triggered automatically. This is handled by periodic(8). 16:38:37 llua: I'm gonna ask you to prove that. 16:44:40 debdrup, thank you 16:47:50 Question for anyone here: Have you ever deployed Web servers (with PHP) on FreeBSD and if so, do you find they perform any better or worse than Linux? The security benefits from jails are good to consider, but in terms of performance, has anyone done something like this? 16:48:57 I'm sure you can find benchmarks that're immediately invalidated by having no mean, median and average values, along with data confidence intervals and student t's. 16:49:22 pertho: why php tho 16:49:24 why python tho 16:49:41 why all that shit yo 16:49:57 myappie: because some people run PHP web apps (not my personal choice, but required by $DAY_JOB) 16:50:06 FreeBSD is said to have better latency, which can result in better performance, depending on usage of the webserver, how many php script are run and such 16:50:06 for sho 16:50:08 pertho: what issue are you trying to solve? 16:50:21 but you could still put in some effort to convincing your boss to rewrite from scratch 16:50:31 if u want, i can help u do it in ruby on rails right now 16:50:37 it's fucking *perfect* 16:50:39 *kiss kiss* 16:50:41 myappie: XY problem. 16:50:45 debdrup: PHP under heavy load/contention.. if you have multiple forked php-fpm children contending for resource.. does FreeBSD do better in that aspect? 16:50:47 shit im late for an appointment 16:50:49 brb 16:51:38 pertho: I don't imagine the difference is big enough to matter. 16:51:39 Linux is horrible under heavy load.. almost unresponsive 16:52:15 FWIW, I've never had a FreeBSD system buckle under load, despite having load averages of +500 on occation when I've done something incredibly ill-advised. 16:52:22 just wondering if anyone else has had experience setting up "FAMP" stacks (instead of "LAMP") and if they've done lots of sysctl tweaking, etc 16:53:18 pertho: I'd suggest setting it up, and if you run into issues, rootcause and address them one by one, instead of trying to out-guess it. 16:54:35 If the website contains a lot of dynamic elements, you can always put varnish in front of it. 16:55:01 yeah varnish does save a lot of messing around 16:55:13 It depends on the site. 16:55:25 If you've got an entirely static site, varnish won't do anything for you. 16:55:38 Well, no more than a regular http cache will. 16:56:01 yeah I know that 16:56:41 the best sites are those done without any PHP or Database.. static site generation for the win :D 16:57:06 Somme of the biggest sites in the world are built on php with varnish in front of them, though. 16:57:06 but, apparently people are stuck in a 10 years ago paradigm 17:02:21 I don’t scrub my zfs pools I do scrub the pool that’s backed by old school drives though 17:03:35 Pretty much causing premature ware when the sad is more than capable of doing that with its firmware 17:07:29 Read endurance isn't really a thing on modern SSDs, though. 17:07:40 Write endurance is, but scrubs don't involve writing. 17:08:24 And if you want good write endurance, you're already paying for drives with DWPD ratings - which most consummer disks don't have. 17:12:29 plasma: that oft-repeated claim doesn't really mean anything - because it never mentions what latency is being measured. It can be disk latency, network latency, application latency - and all of those are affected more by delta and in particular long tail latency than people often think, especially if you're dealing with something that ends up being transported over TCP. 17:14:56 scrub is write op? 17:14:59 It's conceivable that disk latency might be lower because FreeBSD doesn't have block devices - but that's a dubious distinction, because block device are fundementally the wrong way to go about disk I/O. 17:15:16 ketas: what about what I said gave you that idea? 17:15:31 cpet had it 17:15:37 Well, it isn't. 17:16:01 i've always assumed zfs scrub is read 17:16:19 Thought I had this fool on ignore 17:16:32 There we go 17:16:50 Scrub checks the drives for issues 17:17:02 Which in theory is not good for ssd 17:17:12 reading from ssd causes slight loss of cell charge iirc 17:17:18 but that's all 17:17:48 Well it’s my opinion and it’s what I do so bleh 17:18:01 yo what is varnish yo? 17:18:08 ketas: can I had some of that 181GB ? 17:18:12 i would still scrub the ssd 17:18:18 i know setupz like openbsd's relayd 17:18:27 and like this new thing, falcon 17:18:34 instant http/2 17:18:34 Wrong channel then 17:18:39 is varnish something like that? 17:18:45 But varnish is a cache system 17:18:46 cpet: oh no we all one fam, fam 17:18:48 and write is kind of... 17:18:50 aaaah i see 17:18:54 that makes sense 17:19:20 Varnish isn’t a proxy it’s more of a cache 17:19:51 But you can set it to use back ups and fed to x if y is down 17:19:56 i don't have myself 17:20:01 So yeah I guess it’s a proxy as well 17:20:08 so i can't give it to you 17:20:19 Ok 17:20:26 SCSI? 17:20:33 Varnish is a dynamic HTTP accelerator, meaning it helps speed up elements of a webpage that change often. 17:20:51 It won't do anything for static elements that a normal HTTP cache doesn't do. 17:23:16 pertho: you can tweak zfs to run on a gig of ram 17:23:32 Nice! https://reviews.freebsd.org/D38193 17:23:33 Title: ⚙ D38193 rescue: Add fetch(1) 17:23:41 Despite my system having 32 gigs of ram I still teak it 17:23:45 meena: ooo. 17:24:02 And I blame ketas for that 17:25:02 kewl 17:25:02 well 17:25:17 https://socketry.github.io/falcon/ is a little bit ahead of its time 17:25:19 Title: Falcon 17:25:34 giving up trying to make it work on my setup 17:25:42 prolly have to wait 1-2 years for things to mature 17:26:08 its concurrency model is supposedly radically different from anything else such as www.puma.io or unicorn or whatnot 17:26:27 Doesn't really have anything to do with FreeBSD. 17:27:19 fuck yeah 17:27:24 its for freebsd servers mayne! 17:27:39 any kinda server really 17:27:42 but 17:27:47 runs best on freebsd and we all know it :) 17:28:36 falcon is a lil bitspecial tho from what i gather, its the kinda tech we'll be seeing in a couple of years from now 17:28:47 that will be commonplace 17:28:56 like bye bye gz compression 17:29:29 hello broccoli! 17:31:34 i mean brotli 17:31:56 https://www.freebsd.org/status/report-2022-10-2022-12/#_console_screen_reader_infrastructure This is the first I'm hearing of this, and it seems super neat. 17:31:58 Title: FreeBSD Status Report Fourth Quarter 2022 | The FreeBSD Project 17:35:07 It definitely is. Earwitness here. :-) 17:35:23 :) 17:50:49 VimDiesel: yo whens the next vin dieselmovie 17:51:31 riddick in particular, man that first riddick movie was like the first alienmovie-- timeless! 17:57:58 cpet tweaks because me 19:28:42 Hi, is there an official freebsd image for docker? I want to run an freebsd container on top of Linux 19:31:19 No 19:32:29 https://wiki.freebsd.org/Docker#:~:text=Docker%20is%20a%20popular%20application%20containment%20environment%20on,and%20retrieves%20containers%20from%20the%20official%20docker.io%20repository. 19:32:30 Title: Docker - FreeBSD Wiki 19:32:39 Ugly but enjoy 19:34:52 cpet: seems like trouble 19:39:24 docker? install freebsd, set up a jail instead 19:39:25 done 19:39:57 drg99: Running it in a virtual machine is pretty viable. 19:42:38 any guess as to why my system inits a shutdown when i remove ac power? i've disabled any and all suspend crap that i can find 19:43:17 idwer: I already have a Linux machine 19:43:28 reppard: That's a puzzling notion. You pull the power cord and it stays up long enough for a graceful shutdown, or the start of one? 19:44:06 it looks like its a graceful shut down as far as i can tell 19:44:18 reppard: sounds like an ACPI trigger 19:44:42 this is on a laptop-style machine, I presume 19:45:40 idwer: it is 19:45:59 i was fishing through sysctl -A | grep acpi but nothing stood out 19:47:30 reppard: https://docs.freebsd.org/doc/6.2-RELEASE/usr/share/doc/handbook/acpi-debug.html 19:47:32 Title: Using and Debugging FreeBSD ACPI 19:49:34 ASL afaik has fallthrough cases in its switch construction, so when an OS is advertised as non-windows (or non-linux) firmware can't instruct the OS to switch to battery mode 19:49:46 (something like that) 19:50:22 ty i'll give that a read 19:52:58 it almost seems like removing AC triggers an S5 suspend state event 19:57:38 ... what does "ASL" mean in that context? 19:57:49 ACPI Source Language 19:58:03 Thanks. 19:58:42 * V_PauAmma_V was spinning in a tight loop trying to make it make sense with "American Sign Language". 19:59:56 it just made me think of irc circa 1994 (a/s/l) 20:00:27 ah there, https://docs.freebsd.org/en/books/handbook/config/#acpi-overview 20:00:29 Title: Chapter 13. Configuration and Tuning | FreeBSD Documentation Portal 20:01:20 "Old enough to know better/Not lately/At my computer" :-) 20:29:38 drg99: FreeBSD has its own kernel and userland, it's not meant to be peacemeal on top of another kernel. 20:29:48 Oh, and its own libraries. 20:34:42 cccccbedrknjveneiiklbgdvkelfcnjitbdtickjttcb 20:34:51 excellent 20:35:04 Hi, kitty! 20:36:30 Hello, cat. 20:41:45 that cat looks suspiciously like a Yubi key 20:43:19 Yubi cat? 20:44:17 What a maroon pastes his key on irc 20:44:29 Baha 20:51:23 Must be coconuts to do that. 20:52:13 cpet: it's a one time key that's valid for 90 seconds, and gets triggered if you touch it, whether you mean it or not 20:52:49 meena, I have no idea what you're talking about ;-) 20:53:26 meena, trying to setup a yubikey under FreeBSD for the first time. the CLI seems to work but the GUI seems to have some problems. does anybody use the yubikey-manager-qt package successfully? 20:54:06 cpet, I'd be that moron. I do feel like the stupid touch interface shares some blame tho :p 20:54:13 I think i did, but it's been a while, and I've bricked that laptop since 20:54:19 lol 20:54:45 well, not really bricked, just completely busted with an upgrade 20:55:07 although I would blame PkgBase 20:55:09 just boot from your previous BE ;-) 20:55:17 bectl <3 20:55:40 yes, see, that's exactly how i busted it, by not creating one, before running the upgrade 20:56:13 well, then I don't know what to say anymore (at least nothing that wouldn't sound like a snarky sarcastic comment) 20:56:45 afaik -RELEASE automatically creates a BE on freebsd-update tho. 20:57:44 nope, you need to uncomment the last line 20:58:31 also, PkgBase doesn't incorporate bectl yet, which, honestly, it should, but i don't know how to make it do that 20:58:56 hmm, I could swear that I have some hosts running 13.1-RELEASE which do create the BE automatically (these have been freshly installed from the 13.1-RELEASE image tho, not upgraded from previous major versions) 20:59:41 not sure what PkgBase is, need to read up on it. 21:00:28 https://alpha.pkgbase.live/ 21:00:29 Title: Unofficial FreeBSD pkgbase repository 21:01:22 uhm... so it's just another binary repo? 21:07:16 One that unifies base updates and packages. 21:07:55 (And maybe base initial installs in the future, if I read it right.) 21:10:14 bsdinstall needs to be extended to support it 21:16:12 hi, I need to connect to a RealVNC server (running on Windows), from a FreeBSD 13.1 workstation 21:16:29 I 21:16:54 I'm using tigervnc viewer and get "CConnection: No matching security types" 21:17:14 Does anyone know a VNC viewer capable of connecting to RealVNC?, from freebsd? 21:17:44 Tiger should 21:19:27 cpet: I've been reading about this and it looks like RealVNC uses "VINO" encryption, that's not supported by tigervnc. 21:20:00 Realvnc should be in ports 21:20:39 I just run my vnc with no security 21:20:47 are you sure?, I couldn't find it 21:21:27 cpet: yes, I also run VNC without security, but this time I don't control the server. 21:21:45 Oh that’s the legit one not the open source one 21:22:10 Run it through wine should be simple enough to run fine 21:22:23 cpet: I did try, but doesn't work 21:22:38 Tried what ? 21:22:52 cpet: realvnc client through wine 21:23:17 cpet: it opens, but when I double click on the connection it does nothing. 21:23:23 Get a azure free client install real and have fun 21:23:45 Cancel when done 21:24:14 This is when I laugh when I see ms haters 21:24:32 cpet: yes a could do that. 21:25:21 They offer free accounts to try but only the cheapest tier but you don’t need a main frame to run realvnc client 21:27:56 Or you can tell the dewd to run tiger 21:28:34 Hello sir can you run this program for me 22:25:15 i thought realvnc was in ports 22:25:27 but you can back off the security of the vnc server 22:25:53 you can download the linux realvnc and try that 22:26:18 i guess they don't have the java viewer anymore 23:03:42 I'm doing some searching right now and coming up with ipfw only options, is there a pf-based approach which would allow for bandwidth limiting on a particular port or interview? 23:03:45 er, interface* 23:06:10 man pf.conf and read the part about queueing. 23:06:26 (If you haven't already.) 23:24:55 rtyler: dummynet works with both ipfw and pf in -CURRENT 23:25:54 debdrup: how's bout 13.1-RELEASE 23:26:50 V_PauAmma_V: I sees it, thanks 23:26:50 rtyler: see previous message for answer. 23:28:47 Package queueing is more for ensuring a specific type of traffic is always guarented to have the bandwidth it needs (the best example is as VoIP, which uses small packets and doesn't generate a lot of bandwidth, but needs it to always be available).