00:02:47 <Grell> Hello
00:32:03 <yuripv> kevans: hi, mind a pm?
05:20:51 <tykling> o/ does anyone know the state of the "defer" pfsync option? it is visible in ifconfig pfsync0 and it is present in the code and there is even unit tests, but it is not mentioned in the manpage
07:14:40 <kevans> yuripv: sorry, a bit late- off to bed now, but feel free anytime
08:11:59 <mictty> how to specify flavor with portmaster?
08:32:39 <mictty> is your PST broken on physical BSD machine?
08:34:00 <mictty> I just found out my machine TZ is broken. I thought my crontab was broken
08:36:40 <parv> Nope; time zone setting works for me (with BIOS time set either in UTC or local time zone)
08:42:21 <mictty> time for revisiting handbook!
08:43:08 <mictty> parv: thanks
08:46:28 <mictty> just in case, woudn't my router treat my differently by sudden change of my local time?
08:46:40 <mictty> i am afraid before doing it
08:46:58 <parv> How much is the time difference?
08:47:21 <mictty> 1h10m
08:47:51 <mictty> its 12:47 AM in PST
08:48:12 <mictty> but my bsd machine tells me it is 01:55 PST
08:48:17 <parv> Will not matter
08:48:33 <mictty> thank you
08:51:48 <mictty> parv: didn't you mean bios time by tzsetu no?
08:52:34 <parv> No I did not.
08:53:44 <mictty> hmm
08:54:33 <mictty> it was nice to ask
08:57:16 <parv> adjkerntz(8) will change the CMOS clock
09:02:31 <mictty> parv: i don't see that in handbook...
09:03:10 <parv> See the manual page of "adjkerntz(8)"
10:19:40 <mictty> parv: thank you. is your /etc/localtime a link or a file?
11:27:44 <wikan> hi :)
11:28:48 <wikan> how can I list not active jails?
11:29:02 <wikan> jls shows only running jails
11:32:31 <V_PauAmma_V> jail(8) says "jail -e : w" should do it, although it also includes jail parameters in the output.
11:32:55 <V_PauAmma_V> s/w"/"/
11:33:26 <nimaje> how would you define 'not active jails'? jails are pretty dynamic, you can just start one via jail
11:33:46 <wikan> well, not active I mean not running
11:34:26 <wikan> jail -e looks great
11:34:53 <wikan> not super, but works
11:35:29 <nimaje> so, jails configured via jail.conf, that are not running?
11:35:40 <wikan> exactly
11:36:43 <wikan> because it is my private computer and my own private jails, I can grep jail.conf and I think it is the best solution by now
11:36:44 <meena> I reckon most jail managers would be based on -e
11:36:57 <wikan> like ^[a-z]{1,20}
11:46:50 <wikan> btw
11:47:31 <wikan> it is only me, or there is a lot broken packages in pkg? I mean than, a lot of programs crashes.
11:50:45 <msiism> Which ones specifically?
11:51:10 <wikan> for example netsurf-gtk. It runs correctly but when I click on link it crash
11:51:28 <wikan> segfault
11:52:20 <wikan> or minitube
11:52:34 <msiism> And you're sure it's not, maybe, related to broken RAM on your side?
11:53:27 <wikan> well I guess not because I use for example Firefox or Gimp
11:53:36 <msiism> Netsurf still uses GTK 2, right?
11:53:37 <wikan> both apps use a lot of ram
11:54:38 <wikan> ldd says gtk3
11:54:45 <msiism> I see.
11:55:21 <msiism> It's probably best to test this on another machine as well, or ask someone to do that.
11:55:37 <msiism> Is this amd64?
11:55:39 <wikan> xvkbd = sefgault
11:55:42 <wikan> on all machines
11:56:02 <wikan> nope, all machines are 32bit
11:57:02 <msiism> Like, 32-bit x86?
11:57:30 <wikan> yes x86.
11:58:06 <msiism> Okay, so, if you have already tested this on more than one machine, it's probably a good idea to report that as a bug.
11:58:36 <wikan> i will report some bugs anyway
11:59:07 <msiism> Maybe start with the package where it bothers you the most and see how that goes. That might already reveal a few things.
11:59:37 <wikan> to report crashes I wanna find good debugger and traser
11:59:46 <wikan> I can't find strace for example
12:01:28 <wikan> for sure i will report geli bug on boot. When geli asks for password, system still prints messages to tty and it is imposible to type password becuase (I think) geli tages those messages as part of password
12:02:00 <wikan> so I wait until system stop printing, I type enter to clear buffer and then typepassword
12:02:25 <wikan> which package contain strace tool?
12:02:32 <wikan> or something similar?
12:03:08 <V_PauAmma_V> truss is in base.
12:03:49 <wikan> I noticed that sometimes pkg not install important libraries needed as dependencies. Not very often, it is rare, but happened.
12:04:24 <wikan> thanks - didn't know truss
12:04:48 <V_PauAmma_V> That's usually because that dependency is missing in the port Makefile.
12:05:50 <wikan> probably
12:06:14 <wikan> ok, I will debug apps and report issues ;)
12:08:38 <wikan> thanks for help
12:42:45 <debdrup> wikan: what CPUs do you have that are still 32bit, or are you one of the people who mistakenly think 32bit mode is better than 64bit mode?
12:51:26 <wikan> debdrup, I use old computers
12:52:05 <wikan> my "new" machine broke, so I took old laptop and noticed it is good enough for me
12:52:33 <wikan> so I didn't buy new mashine and start use old collected machines instead
12:52:47 <debdrup> wikan: my Intel Core2Duo E6550 from 2007 has 64bit mode.
12:55:20 <wikan> well, I noticed that some 64 apps use much more RAM than 32 versions
12:55:28 <wikan> old machines have limited amount of ram
12:56:50 <wikan> i learnt to use small apps, but still i need some large
12:57:36 <debdrup> Just because they use more ram, doesn't mean it's a bad thing. In general, unused ram is just wasting resources (both in terms of CPUtime and also in terms of electricity).
12:58:04 <wikan> true, but we speak about 80% of ram usage on 32bit
12:58:29 <debdrup> 64bit uses 80% more memory than 32bit?
12:58:48 <debdrup> And you're sure this was _exactly_ the same workload with cold caches et al?
12:58:56 <wikan> no, I ment that sometimes 80% of ram is in use on my machine
12:59:31 <debdrup> Yes, that's not a bad thing.
12:59:32 <wikan> mostly it is 20%, but when I use large apps it is near swap
12:59:50 <debdrup> Memory consumes the same amount of electricity whether it's used or not.
13:00:15 <debdrup> FreeBSD isn't other Unix-likes, it can handle swapping.
13:01:08 <debdrup> I've got 16GB memory and 16GB swap, with ~500MB memory free and 2GB swap used, and the system doesn't run slower because of it because everything that's swapped out is stuff that isn't being used.
13:01:14 <debdrup> That's what swap is for, afterall.
13:02:58 <wikan> what is a point of this discussion?
13:05:51 <debdrup> That if you want FreeBSD to run as well as it can, you shouldn't be using 32bit mode.
13:07:14 <debdrup> And, although it's a fair few years away, 32bit mode is eventually going to go away.
13:10:11 <wikan> there is no reason to not use 32bit if freebsd has 32bit version
13:10:44 <debdrup> Sure, if your CPU doesn't have 64bit mode, that's fine.
13:10:45 <wikan> and it is my own, private choise
13:11:04 <debdrup> 64bit is faster, though.
13:11:38 <debdrup> Certain types of cryptography work up to 50% faster on 64bit compared to 32bit.
13:12:58 <megaTherion> because SIMD?
13:13:01 <wikan> sorry, I will not discuss about this. It is non sens. It is like "be vegan, don't eat meat"
13:13:30 <wikan> as i said. This is my choise and I have no idea, why you think I do not know what i am doing
13:13:44 <wikan> it is actually rude in some way
13:15:23 <wikan> i don't tell anybody to use or not use hardware, sofware of 32/64bit versions of software. Your machine is owned by you, it is your land and I will not tell you how you should use your own computers.
13:15:40 <wikan> so, I have no idea why you want tell this to me
13:16:55 <debdrup> I just wanted to help you get the most out of FreeBSD, but you do you.
13:18:02 <wikan> understand, thank you, but your way is not nessesary the only way :)
13:19:10 <megaTherion> I think Core 2 has a quirk where it cannot op certain µop in 32bit mode
13:19:29 <megaTherion> its quite some time ago, but I remember there was something with it
13:19:32 <wikan> i am fine and happy with my freebsd anyway :)
13:19:49 <debdrup> megaTherion: that does ring a vague bell.
13:23:43 <wikan> btw, does pkg repository keep old versions of packages?
13:24:12 <wikan> i wonder if it is possible to easy install older version
13:25:55 <wikan> for example the newest Firefox works very bad on older machines
13:27:05 <msiism> You could try firefox-esr.
13:27:13 <msiism> I think that's what I'm using.
13:27:35 <wikan> i meant firefox and firefox-esr
13:28:25 <wikan> i now firefox is slow on all bsds
13:28:53 <msiism> In my experience, Firefox is generally slow and consuming loads of resources.
13:29:10 <msiism> I'm also using it on Linux.
13:29:19 <wikan> true, but on old machines only firefox works
13:29:34 <wikan> chrome-based browser do not work
13:29:47 <wikan> on all my machines
13:30:07 <wikan> not work or are extremely laggy
13:30:54 <wikan> so firefox is still the best browser for me
13:30:55 <msiism> I use Falkon on an old Laptop. But it's an amd64.
13:31:48 <wikan> is it better in your opionion?
13:32:24 <msiism> As long as you don't need Javascript.
13:32:42 <msiism> I mean, it can do Javascript, but you cannot really control it. It's either on or off.
13:32:53 <msiism> That does work for some trusted sites, though.
13:32:54 <wikan> well this is why i tried netsurf but it crashes :)
13:33:26 <wikan> mostly i can use links from tty. But for example youtube...
13:33:58 <wikan> still i can watch youtube from links -> vlc, but it is much harder to search for videos
13:35:12 <msiism> On Linux, I use yt-dlp for that kind of stuff. Haven't tried it on FreeBSD yet.
13:50:45 <Helper> they have the package yt-dlp available to download videos from various platforms.
13:55:59 <msiism> Okay, nice.
19:35:51 <meena> I got my reply, https://github.com/rosorio/pkg-provides/issues/7 "I can give you feed back around June." - I love this
19:35:52 <VimDiesel> Title: How to provide a provides DB for a PkgBase repo · Issue #7 · rosorio/pkg-provides · GitHub
20:07:48 <yuripv> they are being honest, at least
20:17:55 <meena> it's not like I'm in a hurry
20:18:52 <meena> yuripv: I guess, on the Internet, or rather, in text, I have to say: I unironically love this
20:31:05 <debdrup> Uses 32bit software, complains that processes with extreme memory bloat somehow don't run well.
22:35:43 <wikan> how can I use *.core files? The application crashes and I want to find out why. I have *.core file
22:37:55 <parv> Inspect those via a debugger -- lldb, gdb; usage vary on how to include the file ("command", "binary", etc synonyms) to get line numbers
22:38:05 <parv> etc
22:38:23 <wikan> i don't have sources
22:38:56 <wikan> falkon installed from pkg crashes and i have no idea why
22:39:13 <wikan> some apps crash too and Idon't know why
22:39:42 <wikan> truss and gdb aren't helpful here :|
22:39:51 <parv> You could get "symbols" (truncated function, variable names) if the "binary" has not been stripped
22:42:46 <parv> My usage has been limited to getting a backtrace to pass on, & to pass on the information that another person investigating asks for via whichever commands
22:43:52 <wikan> i think I need change something via sysctl
22:44:17 <wikan> too many apps crash
22:44:33 <wikan> sysctl or intel drivers :|
22:45:23 <wikan> but cant find anything. Only "interrupted system call"