00:05:29 yuripv: it might come to that ;) LLVM is being compiled due to mesa-foo and mesa-foo failed during attempt #1. I'm not sure, my "make clean" will resolve the issue. At which point I'll be pulling out pkg and crossing my fingers. 00:20:28 so mesa-libs is "===> Compilation failed unexpectedly." Currently running "pkg upgrade mesa-libs" and it's downloading the llvm15-15.0.6 pkg right now. I'll keep my fingers crossed. 00:24:00 llvm 15.0.6 has been failing to build on memory constrained machines. The problem is flang. You generally don't need it as FORTRAN is usually provided by gcc. 00:39:01 can I lower/free zfs arc cache without rebooting ? 00:45:31 mariuss: ummm, this is only a 16GB machine, not sure that qualifies as "memory contrained" or not. 00:49:28 zykotick9: for the llvm 15 build it does. I have two 12GB machines that fail, while my 32GB machines has no problem. I can build on the 12GB machines if I deselect flang using make config. 00:55:29 mariuss: thanks. It was certainly mesa-libs that is failing on this box. 01:03:09 heh, I'm not sure if the -c recompilling LLVM or the -C configuring what seems like everything, is more time consuming ;) 01:06:40 last1: tried setting vfs.zfs.arc.max? looking at the code, it should affect the ARC without reboot 01:12:34 i thought that was a loader variable 01:14:19 last1: i think you need to reboot with the new value 01:15:56 you don't 01:17:57 huh, that didn't used to be the case 01:21:30 * zykotick9 has a 49G arc currently on the 64G box where irssi is running, but has close to 10T deduped. There is still 2.8G free memory. "Free memory is wasted memory" ;) 01:23:10 rtprio: i am looking at https://cgit.freebsd.org/src/tree/sys/contrib/openzfs/module/os/freebsd/zfs/sysctl_os.c#n167 01:23:11 Title: sysctl_os.c « zfs « freebsd « os « module « openzfs « contrib « sys - src - FreeBSD source tree 01:23:41 and just tested that setting it to 1000000000 in real time did limit arc to ~1GB while i did opengrok reindexing :) 01:23:42 i had to check again: https://docs.freebsd.org/en/books/handbook/zfs/#zfs-advanced-tuning 01:23:43 Title: Chapter 21. The Z File System (ZFS) | FreeBSD Documentation Portal 01:24:08 before the openzfs import it must have been a loader setting only 01:24:55 zykotick9: run some bhyve vms, that will eat it right up. 01:25:56 rtprio: I can believe that. I played around with bhyve a very little bit and that's all so far, I had it working - but not really a _need_ for it yet (that was a while ago). 01:26:52 zykotick9: how big is your pool, and what configuration 01:28:11 rtprio: it's a 21TB pool, only one zfs has dedup turned on. "Friends don't let friends run dedup" <- wise advice, but for my use case - it's perfect... 01:28:49 NAME SIZE ALLOC FREE CKPOINT EXPANDSZ FRAG CAP DEDUP HEALTH ALTROOT 01:28:52 wd 21.8T 21.0T 802G - - 49% 96% 1.33x ONLINE - 01:28:57 yah, i need to build another one :| 01:29:37 pool 21.8T 14.8T 6.99T - - 27% 67% 2.06x ONLINE - 01:30:10 rtprio: I'm relived to see your FRAG is even higher than mine 01:30:54 the first line of this `zpool history` is from Febuary 2013. 01:31:23 it desperately needs rebuilt 01:31:33 rtprio: wow, mine is only 2021 01:41:44 mariuss: ummm, "! devel/llvm15 (llvm15-15.0.6) (unknown build error)" :( maybe 16G isn't enough?! My 64G machine uses pkg instead of port... test may be in it's future. 01:42:20 s/it's/its/ 01:43:03 ^ should I be escaping that ' a la \' regex people would know 01:47:23 No need to escape, unless using: . + * ? () [], & perhaps {} too, & possibly others based on software used 01:54:56 parv: I'm not sure if you included " " in your list ;) 01:55:33 zykotick9, You have not asked for it. Also, not needed 01:56:31 parv: ahhh really? I almost always escape a space. 01:57:32 where it gets really strange, IMO, is scp a remote address and the \\\ start, that's just beyond my comprehension. 01:58:00 zykotick9, Well as I wrote earlier: "possibly others based on software used" 01:58:08 ;) 02:03:45 If I need to escape any character more than once, Perl|Python is I switch to from shell 02:10:11 * zykotick9 can't subnet or program himself out of a paper bag :( 02:11:52 I took a "scripting" class at a local community college, as part of a UNIX program where I got As or A+s in the other 4 of 5 classes. Scripting I got a C, only programers did well in that course. 02:12:18 (Single) Quoting a string goes a long way to not needing to escape characters 02:12:43 it gets complicated 02:12:49 heh 02:13:27 Quoting's relationship status on Facebook = It's Complicated 02:14:39 😏 02:21:49 * zykotick9 is pretty sure, without proof. That he's used single quotes to encapsulate double quotes, as well as double quotes to encapsulate single quotes. No proof + a bad memory = questionable conculsions 02:26:23 yuripv: do you know what the difference is between vfs.zfs.arc_max and vfs.zfs.arc.max ? 02:26:42 Later is renaming of the former 02:27:48 ah ok 02:28:14 so right now 0 means no limit, then I set a limit of 10Gb, FreeBSD will free up the ram taken by the arc 02:28:25 I'll try it tomorrow, don't feel like testing new stuff @ 9:30PM 02:28:37 last1: I'm just curious, but can you share how large your arc is and what size you are going to limit it too? 02:29:17 last1, Are you on FreeBSD 12? 02:29:22 13.1 02:29:49 sure, I have 128GB of RAm and now the ARC takes up 100Gb... and it put me 46% swap in use 02:30:31 In 13, then, ARC is better behaving for it reduces memory consumption under memory pressure. But with that ^ in mind ... hmm 02:30:39 https://pastebin.com/HYHQ8vDB 02:30:40 Title: last pid: 96773; load averages: 3.25, 3.57, 3.21 - Pastebin.com 02:31:17 last1: ummm. I have a tiny swap, only as an indicator of memory usage, and it's always at 0 usage. If I had to use swap, I'd think I'm memory starved. 128G RAM is x2 mine, and I'm jealous ;) 02:31:57 yours probably isn't a production server 02:32:18 I have others with even more RAM, just bought some yesterday - 512Gb @ 2933 02:32:25 a cool 2gs 02:33:12 last1, In that (see the URL) case, you have ~7.4 GB free with <1 GB used for swap. 02:34:35 last1: lol, ya mine are NOT production anything. pastebin.com really sucks, there are LOTs of alternative you might consider. 02:36:09 parv: true but I see swap usage fluctuating a lot, it was 46% earlier, then 31% 02:36:22 with 7Gb free it shouldn't swap 02:36:34 now it's 17% 02:46:17 last1: if you're interested, my two systems (one has 51% swap usage) https://bsd.to/5faz both are running FreeBSD 13.1-p5 [one ports (mainly, after today) and one pkg] 02:46:18 Title: dpaste/5faz (Plain Text) 03:02:43 non-root inside a jail can't mount fusefs? 03:12:33 i doubt it 03:27:00 I seems like vfs.usermount doesn't make it down to the jail 03:27:02 It* 03:31:05 fatal error: 'mojo/public/cpp/bindings/remote.h' file not found -- Anyone else experiencing this issue with chromium build(s)? 03:57:19 NAME USED AVAIL REFERcompdir 207M 16.7M 24K /compdir 03:57:49 why only 207 megabytes are used on that zfs filesystem? 04:09:02 how many were you expecting? 04:21:28 the volume size is 400M 05:02:16 I don't have the /usr/local/lib32/libGL.so.1 file; it should be in nvidia-driver-470, but it is not there - how comes? 05:56:21 390 was the last release that had 32 bit support. 06:02:04 Or maybe it was 440? 06:08:34 again, it should be in that packages 06:51:02 Operating System: Kubuntu 20.04 06:51:03 KDE Plasma Version: 5.18.5 06:51:03 KDE Frameworks Version: 5.68.0 06:51:04 Qt Version: 5.12.8 06:51:04 Kernel Version: 5.4.0-73-generic 06:51:05 OS Type: 64-bit 06:51:05 Processors: 6 × AMD FX(tm)-6300 Six-Core Processor 06:51:06 Memory: 15.5 GiB of RAM 06:51:39 I understand that is a lot but I don't know how you find freebsd , that might work with that? 07:03:39 tarel2: you must be joking; you find it at freebsd.org 07:04:45 That is my computer now , and I was wondering if I could get some freebsd version that might work. 07:20:21 Hi. I am considering buying a ThinkBook that has an Integrated Intel Iris Xe Graphics. How can I find out if it's compatible with FreeBSD? 07:22:00 tarel2: looks like it would 07:26:19 Like 12.3 or 12.2  or is there a 12.1 ? 07:27:17 With Linux , I would look up the kernel number maybe to find somethign 07:27:29 But freebsd I don't know what to do 07:34:11 perhaps you should read the handbook 07:34:29 https://docs.freebsd.org/en/books/handbook/ 07:34:30 Title: FreeBSD Handbook | FreeBSD Documentation Portal 07:40:45 if you have questions from the reading, please do ask 07:55:00 are there 13.1 root-on-zfs AMIs (in us-east-2)? 07:58:43 or a 07:58:47 FreeBSD 13.1-RELEASE-amd64 AMI Builder in us-east-2 08:06:39 us-east-2 region: ami-079dd76c503e258b6 08:07:00 oh, zfs on root. hrm i doubt it 08:11:05 From jail man page allow.mount "privileged users inside the jail will be able to mount..." is there a different definition of priviledged users than "just root" ? 08:11:35 It worded to sound like that could be somethign other than non-root. 08:12:38 * skered got fusefs to mount with a setuid mount_fuse bin but umounting doesn't work. 08:13:41 I was thinking maybe it could be some group thing? 08:14:41 Would be nice if mount_fuse would handle unmounting like other platforms fusermount. 09:53:32 skered: sometimes a user is made privileged by belonging to specific groups 09:56:16 Hi, I am currently updating a port I maintain but I am currently try to update DISTVERSIONSUFFIX. Does any one know how to retrieve that value from github? 10:30:16 gbe: I think #bsdports on EFnet or #freebsd-ports here on Libera might be better places to ask that. 11:31:16 gbe: until you figure out how to join there: https://docs.freebsd.org/en/books/porters-handbook/book/#makefile-master_sites-github git describe --tags 11:31:19 Title: FreeBSD Porter's Handbook | FreeBSD Documentation Portal 11:33:07 I running Ubuntu 20 amd , My machine I think is old.  How would I find the freebsd version that might run on this hardware? 11:34:16 Define "old"? I'm running a development snapshot of FreeBSD on an 8 or 9 yo laptop. 11:35:21 (Is that 32-bit AMD, or 64-bit?) 11:35:54 64 bit 11:36:24 I ask , I got a newer like 13 and my machine like froze on the asus logo 11:36:37 like it would not boot at all and nor could I get into the bios 11:37:01 I don't know what that means. 11:37:44 Was that when trying to install, or when trying to boot into the installed FreeBSD? 11:39:00 booting the installer 11:39:13 I say booting I never got to see any freebsd 11:39:24 Normally in the bio the installer shows up 11:39:28 and I can chose to boot from it 11:40:06 I got openbsd root img file so I could see faster if it was going to fail or not. 11:40:15 root is like really small 11:40:22 not 4 gb to fail 11:44:12 tarel2: the BSDs are usually pretty good at supporting old hardware for long time 11:44:37 Well 13 did not work 11:44:44 Maybe 12 ? 11:45:20 what hardware are we talking, exactly? 11:45:38 and what exactly didn't work? 11:45:41 AMD FX(tm)-6300 Six-Core Processor 11:46:23 My machine would frezze on asus logo and I could not get into the bio at all and I could not seem to see it go past that at all 11:47:12 if you can;t get into bios that is not freebsd's fault 11:47:15 its not even booted at that point 11:50:11 Oh man the bios 11:50:23 Its not bio but the other one 11:50:39 I want some form of Unix  and BSD something would be nice 11:50:54 UEFI 11:51:33 My goal was once  Linux , Windows , Android x86 , BSD  and Apples BSD , so I could have all the big os out there 11:51:41 What medium did you use for the installer? USB memory stick? CD or DVD? 11:52:31 USB stick 11:52:45 I think maybe it was an iso 11:52:48 tarel2: you do mean UEFI, I think. Is there a nVidia graphics card installed? 11:52:56 I was trying to install 11:53:16 IS the usb like , the whole system or just in the installer? 11:53:38 I have been using  the pi and usb mean a whole working system not an installer 11:54:50 You could write the following image to a USB-stick 11:54:51 https://download.freebsd.org/releases/ISO-IMAGES/13.1/FreeBSD-13.1-RELEASE-amd64-mini-memstick.img 11:55:37 Hi, I have a mini server that I'd like to remotely src update from 13.0 to 13.1, but I'd like to add some sort of failsafe so that the previous system can be booted in case the new one completely falls apart at the bootloader stage. Can the bootloader mount a simple dd image? 12:00:05 ultramage: you can do all kinds of stuff, if you still have some kind of console access 12:00:54 https://people.freebsd.org/~lidl/blog/re-root.html see this as example 12:00:55 Title: Using FreeBSD's re-root capability 12:34:43 nice guide! 12:42:49 that is a nice guide, though a bit over the top for what I need. The only access I would have in case of boot failure is my dad over the phone, with the ability to type in commands and read the screen. 12:44:20 hello 12:44:27 Ideally what I'd want is a bootable usb stick with sshd running and the latest dhclient files copied onto it. That way all I'd need is someone to change the boot device, and I could fix the rest. But that's a pain to set up. 12:44:32 my folks 12:45:47 hmm 12:45:54 parv 12:49:50 hey all with portmaster if I wanted to install perl5.36 and my system presently had 5.34 what flags would I need to use; they are represented as seeprate ports lang/perl5.36 and lang/5.34 12:50:12 I did update make.conf to specify my new default perl as 5.36 12:50:16 I can never remember, so I look into UPDATING for examples, since this is used often. -o is involved 12:51:01 ah seems I just install 5.36 with -o 12:51:15 it's portmaster new -o old, or old -o new 12:52:04 what's the user-level sysroot for giving it to clang? 12:52:20 -o 12:54:00 wonder if this will-recompile everything that depended on it as well 12:56:16 no it does not hmm 12:56:27 so how do I need tell portmaster to recompile everything that depended on 5.34 12:59:19 or does o fix the dependency linking as well 12:59:42 yes it does :0 12:59:45 perfect :) 13:00:18 i should live next to a bsd admin for a week 13:00:35 im in doubt of configuration 13:00:42 I think it only recompiles those things that have pending updates along the path. With -f I think it'll recompile everything on the path, down to pkg 13:01:19 ultramage, nah I did a pkg remove perl5.36, just to see what it would deinstall; and it had everything from postgres-server to nginx to a bunch of perl modules 13:01:28 so it does change what everyone else depends on 13:01:47 ill still do a portmaster -R lang/perl5.36 just as a matter of course; of course 13:02:39 ah you mean -o will 13:02:55 I updated all my tree last night, which is why I probably never seen that part 13:07:10 portmaster -R -r perl 13:07:15 seems to do just that 13:33:56 yeeeee 13:34:14 we gotta have fun 13:40:46 Hmm, one alternative to my failsafe issue would be, if i could temporarily get an usb stick plugged in, I could just format it and dump&restore the live OS onto it (hopefully there's an exclusion mechanism since user and application data makes it bigger than it needs to be) 14:21:27 was mysql made of boost? 14:21:32 didn i know 15:20:03 is there any way to completely disable the video console in place of serial console only? 15:41:47 BarnabasDK: i don't. in my case, hot plug isn't working so as long as i don't start with video, it is disabled 15:44:10 BarnabasDK: using `comconsole` in loader.conf(5)? 15:50:45 ultramage: is your system zfs or ufs? 15:54:00 system is dangerously dedicated freebsd-ufs 15:55:32 right now I'm looking into an even simpler alternative. the thing has a secondary storage disk, I could just make it bootable and put a copy of the OS on it. Right now I'm trying to figure out how to do that. It was created with 'gpart create', then 'gpart add', then 'newfs'. No freebsd-boot slice, so the standard method of deploying gptboot doesn't apply. 15:58:43 is there something to give you disquiet about the bootloader specifically for this upgrade? 16:01:57 because it sounds like you're making this way more complicated than it needs to be 16:02:23 rtprio: why yes, when I transitioned from 11.x to 12.0, my system became unbootable due to problematic changes/cleanups in the bootloader. it took a year to resolve. https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=234031 16:02:26 Title: 234031 – loader can't traverse filesystem, LUA ERROR: cannot open /boot/lua/loader.lua 16:04:27 but the more probable case is that the new kernel will panic during boot due to some stupid oversight, and the old kernel will not work with the new userland. So as a precaution, I would like to prepare a bootable backup of the old OS. 16:05:04 having a backup is always a great idea. 16:05:36 iirc the kosher way is to first update the kernel (with backwards compat), reboot, then do the userland. I don't remember why I switched to doing both at the same time. 16:06:19 to save a reboot. 16:07:00 that's not an issue in my case, this thing's a homebrew router and storage appliance pc, nothing will care 16:07:42 then have the usb stick handy for the live image, you don't want to start hacking your own live distro just for this task. (or do you?) 16:07:59 if you're really worried, practice the upgrade in a vm 16:08:08 I honestly can't remember. I know that at the start, I followed that method... either I ran into some negative aspect of that method, or it was something build-related (like having to build bootstrap twice or something), or I simply got lazy 16:09:23 I am not present and am unable to come to repair it. If it breaks, I'll have to talk somebody through over the phone. And since it's the router, they won't have internet, so I have to prepare any bootable partitions or live media beforehand 16:11:01 I am practicing on a VM right now in fact. Right now I'm trying to figure out how to make ada1p1 bootable. 16:13:18 gpart bootcode -p /boot/gptboot -i 1 ada1 but you'll probably want to verify that 16:13:33 btw, regarding that booting issue report, I discovered that ada0's sector 0 (containing boot1) doesn't match /boot/boot1. Are the boot phases independent? Or could the older boot code + new bootloader have caused it. hmm. 16:14:25 there are 2 stages, 16:14:49 discussions regarding that command say that gptboot is meant to go into a freebsd-boot flagged partition, since it's a 60k file and all. And that it'll corrupt the filesystem if you write it anywhere else. I wonder. 16:15:38 oh you said this was 'dedicated', not gpt.... but if that's the case shouldn't the partition be ada1a not ada1p1 ? 16:17:17 the system is just ada0 (no mbr, just straight-up a single freebsd-ufs slice). the storage disk is gpt with 1 geom partition. no bsdlabel. 16:19:13 I think maybe I was supposed to bsdlabel ada1p1 into ada1p1s1 (freebsd-boot) and s2(freebsd-ufs), then it would have been straightforward. I didn't really understand this stuff and the disk was meant for just storage. 16:21:42 what about a clean install after backing up ada0 onto ada1; once the connection and ssh are set up you can restore the router remotely 16:23:35 just an idea 16:24:19 clean install as in install from media, then painstakinly reinsert all the configuration files and ports? that sounds rough. plus I build the thing from source (not sure if it adds any value tbh, it's just habit) 16:26:25 not really; you can quickly reinstall all ports and most of config should be in /usr/local/etc and a few files in /etc 16:27:10 well, 'quickly' dependant on the connection; export a list and reinstall from the list 16:28:22 there's a lot going on in /etc, a bit in /boot too. bunch in /var. most in /usr. It would take a while to put it all back. Not that hard though. My main issue is that someone would have to put in the ssh keys, and the dhclient leases, before this thing went online for the first time. 16:29:32 okay 16:31:07 probably 95% chance that nothing bad will happen. it's just that unrecoverable failure is completely unacceptable, since it would require skilled physical access to recover from. 16:31:38 and this isn't a site you visit often? 16:33:04 I've had multiple fatal upgrade issues in the past, ranging from missing kernel modules, to that boot loader issue, to misbuilt world. Back then I was in the same room with a bootable live stick to fix it. Now I'm remote. 16:34:36 so I feel it's time I added some sort of failsafe that requires only a few keystrokes to activate 16:35:33 i don't think any failsafe would be that simple in this case 16:35:54 which is why some folks use zfs and just roll back the snapshot if an upgrade goes awry 16:36:22 and embedded systems have two boot devices so they can always rollback to the last functioning one 16:46:48 <_xor> Hmm, I wonder what's causing libtree to show libQt5Core.so.5 as not being found, but ldd shows it fine. Confirmed that it works since it launches fine. 16:46:59 <_xor> Guessing maybe libtree has some preset paths that it only searches or something? 16:47:46 _xor: maybe you want `ldconfig -r` 16:49:08 <_xor> Yup, that's what I was just grepping. 16:49:39 <_xor> libQt5Core.so.5 is in /usr/local/lib/qt5/..., which I'm guessing ldd does search but libtree does not. 16:50:37 <_xor> Just did libtree --help and noticed it takes an optional path to an ldconfig file, and it looks like it searches by default in /etc/ld-elf.so.conf, which doesn't exist by default. 16:50:47 i'm not familar with libtree 16:50:51 <_xor> Is there a BSD-equivalent I can point it to? 16:51:17 <_xor> Just a slightly fancier ldd that shows the output as a tree of dependencies (recursively). 16:53:16 ah 16:55:15 <_xor> Ah, `echo "/usr/local/lib/qt5" >> /etc/ld-elf.so.conf` fixed the issue with libtree. 16:56:06 <_xor> I wonder what's making ldd pick it up though? Does it search the entire tree by default or is there another file somewhere that's adding it to the search path? 16:56:57 I pondered it a bit, and I think I'll split the problem into two steps. I'll upgrade the kernel first. If its loader fails, I'll prepare a 13.0 and a 13.1 bootonly image + imaging tool to bootstrap the machine. If the new kernel fails, the old one will be there in the backup subdirectory. If the userland fails horribly, the loader can be pointed to the second drive with the copy of the OS (and a 16:57:03 slightly tweaked fstab). 16:57:31 ports add paths using ldconfig -m, file is /var/run/ld-elf.so.hints (as shown by `ldconfig -r`) 16:59:24 <_xor> yuripv: I was reading the man page and noticed /var/run/ld-elf.so.hints. 16:59:36 <_xor> yuripv: Ran file on it and saw that it's a binary file. 16:59:50 <_xor> yuripv: So ldconfig -m is the main/only way to manipulate that, I take it? 17:00:10 _xor: https://man.freebsd.org/ld.so#FILES 17:00:12 Title: ld.so 17:01:40 * meena didn't read to the end 17:04:26 i ususally just let /etc/rc.d/ldconfig take care of it, but whatever 17:05:32 doesn't pkg rerun ldconfig every time you install a package which needs it? 17:05:57 i thought so 17:07:46 _xor: actually, https://github.com/freebsd/freebsd-ports/blob/1106ed56bbaf2c5a3f2f7043f279d06fc0d5dd1f/Mk/bsd.port.mk#L860 17:07:48 Title: freebsd-ports/bsd.port.mk at 1106ed56bbaf2c5a3f2f7043f279d06fc0d5dd1f · freebsd/freebsd-ports · GitHub 17:08:42 <_xor> Yeah, not a big mystery, just curious. libtree doesn't read the hints file. 17:08:54 <_xor> ldd does, and it's manipulated with ldconfig. 17:09:42 tell it to read /usr/local/libdata/ldconfig/* 17:11:54 <_xor> Hmm, I wonder if it takes a dir or glob pattern heh. 17:13:34 <_xor> That would be a resounding no. --ldconf /usr/local/libdata/ldconfig/qt5-core worked though. 17:52:41 _xor: it makes me wonder if this is libtree's failing, not being platform independent enough 18:03:04 plausable 19:06:51 I can't do rsync from iphone to freebsd but can login fine over ssh from another freebsd box.... what is the trick? 19:07:07 I can ssh into freebsd from iphone using shelly 19:07:21 but lol I cant get shelly to give me command line to scp 19:08:39 going to try blink shell 19:10:56 without a kbd this will be a dreadful experience anyways 19:16:39 ACTION  19:47:02 concrete_houses, The iPhone rsync+ssh clients I would imagine are the problem. Look at the server's /var/log/auth.log file for information. 20:08:41 Is using Git the only method to update the ports collection on a system? 20:09:12 I did install ports during system installation. 20:09:33 No. But using git is the best way. 20:11:18 Okay, so I'll have to do the inital checkout on top of my already installed ports collection then? 20:12:24 There also "got" & "gitup" -- have not used any 20:13:38 I mean, if the Git method is the best method, then there doesn't seem to be much sense in installing ports during system installation. 20:14:30 Indeed 20:15:49 There was a FreeBSD Journal article on ports and git relatively recently. Let me dig out a link to it. 20:15:58 https://freebsdfoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/mingrone_revised.pdf 20:16:02 Thanks. 20:16:59 As with most things... I don't agree with everything the author writes there but it's good information regardless. 20:17:59 I'll give a shout-out to the journal articles here https://freebsdfoundation.org/our-work/journal/browser-based-edition/ 20:18:03 Title: Browser-Based Edition | FreeBSD Foundation 20:18:30 I have been trying to up my skills by spending a little time reading through them. Good stuff there! 20:23:11 miism, Oh, I missed seeing this article before. Also relevant. https://freebsdfoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/Mini-Git.pdf 20:23:47 msiism ^^ because I typo'd there. 20:27:50 No, I wonder whether I should actually remove all that is in /usr/ports before cloning the git repository to that location. 20:28:11 s/No/Now/ 20:31:34 If you have the space then don't do anything immediately and then walk through one of the tutorials with the files located elsewhere. 20:31:38 Is there a ".git" directory in "/usr/ports" or does "git -C /usr/ports log -n 2" show anything? 20:33:04 No, it's "not a git repository", says Git. But there's a `.gitignore` file in there. 20:34:43 Ok. As rwp said you could rename existing /usr/ports before cloning 20:35:23 /usr/ports is usually a dataset of its own though. 20:35:33 Lack of ".git" repository means that one cannot just do "git -C /usr/ports pull" 20:36:21 The Handbook suggests cloning to /usr/ports if ports haven't been installed previously. 20:36:30 zfs rename parent/usr/ports parent/usr/ports.old && zfs create zfs rename parent/usr/ports🤷‍♂️ 20:37:03 s/zfs create zfs rename/zfs create/ 20:37:12 Uhhm… can't I just use `mv`? 20:37:43 Depends if /usr/ports is mounted as dataset or not. 20:37:50 Oh, I see. 20:37:51 A dataset is very similar to a hard disk partition so can't be moved like a file. 20:38:29 "zfs list /usr/ports" and see if it is its own dataset. 20:38:55 zfs-list does not work with the directory path 20:39:28 Well, it seems to work here. 20:39:35 Huh? https://bsd.to/gw0K/raw 20:39:36 Title: gw0K 20:40:11 The Joseph Mingrone article suggest creating a dataset in your $HOME directory. A full dataset is not required but it is useful for snapshot purposes and such. 20:40:20 So, if the NAME column says "zroot/usr/port" then it's a dataset, isn't it? 20:40:28 yes. 20:40:40 Well, that does. Hmm 20:40:40 I don't like compiling things as root either. So setting things up to build as non-root is an advantage IMNHO too. 20:40:49 True. 20:41:52 Ok, "." need to be slashed 20:42:53 Hmm... That is interesting. "rwp@madness:/usr/ports$ zfs list ." "cannot open '.': self reference, '.' is found in name" I had never tried it that way before. 20:43:21 But you are right that ./ works there. Interesting. I had always just used /usr/ports type of paths. 20:45:21 * msiism reads up on ZFS 20:52:00 meena: That's what I was thinking but I'm already in wheel 20:55:39 So, I could just run `zfs create zroot/freebsd-ports` and then mount that to ~/ports, right? 20:56:19 rwp: not an uncommon thought, but what's the attack surface of "compiling a port" ? 20:59:40 msiism, You would have to set the mountpoint during or after the dataset creation. zfs create -o /mount/point dataset # or # zfs set mountpoint=/mount/point dataset 21:00:03 msiism, Then you can mount the dataset: zfs mount dataset 21:00:13 rtprio, Accidental mistakes. I am sure it is not malicious intent there. But accidents do still happen. 21:00:39 an accident... when compiling? accident in the software you're compiling's makefile? 21:00:43 msiism, Correction: s{zfs create -o /mount/point dataset}{zfs create -o mountpoint=/mount/point dataset} 21:01:25 msiism, I know this is counter to the normal /etc/fstab way but ZFS is normally used to do its own mounting of zfs datasets. It's actually nice. 21:02:22 "zfs list -o name,canmount,mounted,mountpoint" will show the two fields canmount and mounted which configure zfs to mount or not mount a dataset. 21:03:16 Most of the "working datasets" are always canmount=on and mounted=yes. The "infrastructure datasets" (terms I just made up on the spot) are often not mounted. 21:04:19 The boot environment snapshots are pretty obvious and are not mounted unless they are in use. 21:04:48 The /usr and /var though are subtle. They are not mounted so that on the file system they are part of the / dataset. 21:05:08 But they exist to hold configuration options so that the other child datasets inherit from them. 21:05:37 Hm… so, how would I create a dataset that would give me "freebsd-ports" in my home directory then? 21:06:07 I'ven trying to run `zfs create zroot/usr/home/msiism/freebsd-ports`. 21:06:14 I do not see the point of keeping /var things in / in default install. All of /var ought to be shoved in /var, where they belong 21:06:27 zfs create zroot/usr/home/msiism/freebsd-ports 21:06:31 msiism: that would work assuming that all the parent directories/datasets exist 21:06:50 Though I would really locate that under ~/src for my tastes. That's just an example. 21:06:51 or zfs create -p zroot/usr/home/msiism/freebsd-ports 21:07:25 Okay, but this would then lead to all the missing datasets being created? 21:07:39 msiism: correct 21:07:40 Missing datasets? Which are missing? 21:07:54 Perhaps it would be useful to paste in "zfs list"? 21:07:56 i didn't see your `zfs list`, msiism 21:08:03 Or you could just create "zroot/freebsd-ports" with the mountpoint set where ever you want 21:09:20 Well, my user directory under /home is not a dataset, for example. 21:09:44 pastebin your `xfs list` 21:10:03 By default /home is a symlink to /usr/home and the reason for that is so that $HOME exists under the /usr tree and inherits config from it. 21:10:19 Ha ha!👈 21:10:20 It's a little odd for people coming from the Debian side of the family tree though. 21:10:22 i hate /usr/home 21:11:02 It's definitely got an odd feel to it if one is used to the GNU/Linux distros. 21:11:28 Here comes my zfs list: http://paste.debian.net/plainh/f900691e 21:11:33 But remember that back in the old, old days people's home directories were located directly under /usr. :-) 21:11:52 Yeah, I've heard about that, actually. 21:12:32 I just let the installer decide on the partitioning scheme because I was a bit clueless. 21:12:57 Note that I am just an archeologist on some of these things. I only moved into the house a bit ago. Been finding interesting things left by the owners all of this time. :-) 21:13:29 msiism, Your zfs list looks to be normal and like the default install. Good. 21:13:56 Which means that I am sure you will find that /home is a symlink to /usr/home and therefore your home directory is actually /usr/home/msiism there. 21:14:09 Right. 21:14:10 Unless one use the shell (see https://wiki.freebsd.org/MasonLoringBliss/ZFSandGELIbyHAND ) , the installer does not offer a choice on datasets 21:14:11 Title: MasonLoringBliss/ZFSandGELIbyHAND - FreeBSD Wiki 21:14:42 Right. One can create a full custom installation. And that is good too. But then if they have customized it I would expect they would know they had done it. 21:15:16 I was gonna use UFS, but people here talked me into ZFS. ;) 21:15:45 BTW... It's not required to create a dataset for the ports. It's just convenient for snapshots. You could just git clone in your $HOME and then go from there. 21:16:09 Yeah, I was already asking myself what's wrong with a good old directory. 21:16:11 And really it is only disk space of files on disk. Meaning you can always start there and then do something else later. 21:16:19 msiism, Gift those people chocolate 21:16:21 also it's not bad to go into single user mode and create some more datasets as you get to know things 21:16:29 So... Maybe just clone the ports source and just start there? 21:16:38 Sounds like an idea. 21:16:52 I'll have to get used to ZFS over time. 21:17:28 My Linux systems generally have 4 ext4 partitions that don't change. So, this is way different. 21:18:19 I myself am a convert. But after getting comfortable with the flexibility provided by zfs I really hate to go back to not having it. 21:19:11 Anyway... Head over to https://docs.freebsd.org/en/books/handbook/ports/#ports-using and read 4.5.1 for git cloning. 21:19:12 Title: Chapter 4. Installing Applications: Packages and Ports | FreeBSD Documentation Portal 21:19:28 Where it says /usr/ports there change that to your current directory. 21:20:00 So for example: mkdir -p ~/src/freebsd-ports && cd ~/src/freebsd-ports && git clone https://git.FreeBSD.org/ports.git 21:20:01 Title: ports - FreeBSD ports tree 21:20:18 Assuming I didn't typo something while I just typed that in off the top of my head and some simple copy-pasting. 21:21:45 BBIAB... 21:31:43 rwp: you just missed the '.' at the end of clone command, to not create additional ports directory :) 21:32:09 Jordan H on /etc/rc: https://youtu.be/Mri66Uz6-8Y?t=1642 21:32:10 Title: Jordan Hubbard - FreeBSD: The Next 10 Years - YouTube 21:34:36 Okay, cloning the 2022Q4 branch. 21:35:40 heh, "and, as of April 2020, is currently Sr. Director for GPU Compute SW at NVidia" 22:21:52 * parv cries over Raritan LXii DLX2-108 (hardware based KVM over IP, sans Java) being horribly expensive (~US$957 at CDW) for personal use (need at most 2-4 connections) 22:24:51 * parv ... but StarTech "Crash Cart Adapter" requiring Windows client with HDMI & DisplayPort adaptors for ~US440 puts that in perspective 22:27:01 * parv would be up for a *portable* version of the above Raritan model with single connection for ~US500 22:29:06 do you really need a kvm-over-ip 22:29:22 or a raspberry pi with a usb-db9 connector 22:29:52 That is most flexible in terms of video output from other machines 22:30:43 ...also reduces the number of cables needed 22:32:38 Raritan KXiii has adaptors HDMI|DisplayPort|VGA adaptors into which ethernet cable plugs in. 22:35:04 I would be happy if I could find a completely hardware based KVM thing similar to StarTech "Crash Cart Adapter" that would be OS agnostic (even if I would need to use various/different video cables) 22:40:09 ... need to connect to a laptop to receive video of other machine & send keyboard|mouse events (from laptop) 22:41:37 ... or alternatively, a small screen & keybord+mouse housed in a laptop-like (portable) chassis could also work 22:42:02 I do not have the facilities to do that myself 22:44:21 i was a fan of the ipmi 22:44:41 "was"? 22:47:16 i don't have a functioning one on my servers at home; had them at work 22:47:33 but our datacenter was only a couple of blocks away so the walk was nice 22:47:50 Ok. 22:48:11 also the datacenter technicians were more than eager to help... and seemed kind of lonely 22:48:36 Could you direct me to somewhere where I can read on IPMI? 22:51:54 wouldn't help you much unless the chassis have it; ipmitool is the opensource client; drac is the dell version, which happens to support ipmi 22:53:04 At work there are several machines which I visit in person (for not having set up IPMI) 23:05:59 In the mean time I should really set up a Linux & Windows VMs on my FreeBSD laptop ... 23:18:05 i have a freebsd vm on my windows laptop 23:23:35 Same here. Do you use VirtualBox or Hyper-V? 23:23:42 hyper-v 23:24:54 How is the set up (& FreeBSD updates) including adding space via extra "disk" (as files) like? 23:28:14 If I switch to Hyper-V, then I would be able to use WSL 2 too ("use" in the sense that VM would not be lose hardware support) 23:32:43 setup was fine, i gave it 100g; i haven't added anymore disk to it 23:33:13 Hi! Newbie question - I am in the pfsense bootloader (don't know how different is from freebsd one): how do I boot from an USB efi drive? I can see it's maped to disk1 (disk1s1 and disk1s2 being partitions) 23:35:44 wouldn't you do that from the bios? 23:38:34 rtprio: I can't see the bios screen and I have only a console, so was hoping the bootloader could help out 23:39:05 the "lsdev" command gave me some hope 23:40:20 can you pastebin your lsdev ? 23:44:31 http://dpaste.com//9T93QACYZ 23:44:32 Title: dpaste: 9T93QACYZ 23:45:29 this is an efi system - and I would ideally like to boot the usb stick in efi mode, but booting the installation from it would be just fine :D 23:46:08 ... i don't think you'll be able to boot linux with the freebsd loader 23:46:45 well, may I boot an efi executable? 23:47:15 i thought, and i'm not a pro at this area, is that the efi already booted into the freebsd loader 23:48:18 I think yes, but... totally no expert 23:51:44 but ok - guess I'll do another way, let see if i amlucky enough