00:46:22 Hello! I want to try freebsd as my main desktop soon, but I am wondering about a couple things. I use NetworkManager to deal with my networking. Is there something similar on freebsd? 01:30:19 nah 01:30:24 during install just pick dhcp 01:30:34 audio is simpler too jsut mixer vol 100 01:30:47 and I use iceWM bestest desktop 01:30:51 and irssi for irc 01:30:55 and qbittorrent 01:30:58 and smplayer 01:31:03 BOOM 01:31:12 microsfot obsolete for decade or more same with oracle and ibm 01:31:28 picolisp.com or pharo.org or gnu clog for replacing big tek 01:31:30 and live life 01:31:41 archlinux is painful to setup 01:31:44 just use freebsd 01:31:50 and make sure UFS not zfs 01:31:54 zfs pain in the nads 01:31:56 Why not ZFS? 01:31:59 locks up smaller desktop 01:32:07 zfs avoid liek plague 01:32:16 unix aka bsd is very veyr nice 01:32:17 Absolutly not. You just need > 8gb ram 01:32:22 wrong 01:32:25 use ufs 01:32:33 dont do it! 01:32:36 dont do zfs 01:32:40 yull b sorry 01:32:41 I use ZFS on my server and main root on gentoo, and have done so fine for more than 6 years. 01:32:47 huge mistake 01:32:55 not as big as java oracle or .net 01:32:57 but up there 01:32:58 How? Name the problem you experienced. 01:33:05 slow 01:33:10 locks up smaller desktop 01:33:12 no gain 01:33:15 What was your specs? 01:33:16 without it life grand 01:33:21 4g ram 01:33:23 Do you know about snapshots? 01:33:26 2x1.7ghz 01:33:33 6t usb3 drive 01:33:43 not really 01:33:43 Well there is your problem. I think a minimum of 8gb of ram is needed for a good experience. 01:33:49 well 01:33:54 i said smaller desktop eh 01:33:58 and I think 01:33:58 Greets 01:34:00 even on bigger 01:34:03 whats the gain? 01:34:05 Well, then you don't know about the filesystem. ZFS effectivly can be used like time machine. 01:34:08 what does zfs give ya? 01:34:12 Also, speed redundncy. 01:34:12 vol maangemnt? 01:34:17 Thats another. 01:34:20 then your getting into server class and nas 01:34:21 is there a command line tool shipped with freebsd to turn tabular data into neatly formatted tables 01:34:22 Also snapshots are massive. 01:34:27 I thought we talking desktop eh 01:34:35 FUZxxl Greetings my friend. 01:34:35 I say desktop 8g ram use ufs 01:34:47 concrete_houses I raid 2x2tb nvme ssds with zfs for root. 01:34:48 but hey im for monarchy and free rooms 01:34:55 formattes as in, spaces added in such that the same column begins in the same column each line? 01:36:51 concrete_houses If you ever f up your system, you will be thankful you will have a snapshot. 02:17:07 I love that new versions of freebsd-update(8) make the snapshot for you if you forget to create before updating. 02:19:20 FUZxxl: like column(1)? 02:25:02 Re freebsd-update & default snapshot: Yeah :-| I do not like it (do not hate it either) enough that I set "CreateEnv No" for I create my own snapshot/backup beforehand. I really wish "freebsd-update" would grow a command line switch. 02:26:09 freebsd-update could maybe stand a rewrite in a faster language 02:26:40 s/CreateEnv/CreateBootEnv/ # Whatever 02:29:56 Ha! There is zero occurrence (relevant to ZFS snapshot) of "env|snap" in "freebsd-update" manual page on stable/13. 02:33:17 well /some/ of us always forget to snaphot manually before running updates. (I use zfstools to help w/ my senility) 02:39:51 I did not write for default snapshot not to be done. Am asking for an easier way -- via commad line option -- to disable auto snapshot. Moreover, the manual page is severely lacking any notice of the new state 02:45:44 yeah, man page and 'showconfig' doesn't give any info about it (CreateBootEnv), either. 03:08:15 So, I've got a qcow2 file I'd like to load into bhyve. I've converted it to "raw", but I'm unsure of my next step. I use vm-bhyve for management. Can I just use the tool to create an instance, then replace the raw disk with my converted one? 03:08:46 Or is there some other way to tell `vm` to "make an instance, using this existing raw disk"? 04:25:11 does ufs have snapshots? 04:25:17 is that why I lose so much space? 04:25:31 790g used 4.1t avail 5.3t total 04:25:34 somethign is missing 04:25:38 deosnt add up 04:53:14 concrete_houses: yes, ufs has snapshots, but unless you took some, you don't have any 04:53:43 ghoti: create an instance, copy your converted disk over disk0.img 04:54:09 concrete_houses: and you know that there's more on the filesystem than just the files, right 04:54:53 FUZxxl: col or awk; depends on your data 05:27:37 like what 05:36:34 Such as inodes and other file system infrastructure. Such as directories holding the pointers to the files. 05:37:00 Also there is the minfree that I mentioned earlier. That won't be reported since it can't be used by non-root. 05:42:51 Some useful background information here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unix_File_System 05:42:52 Title: Unix File System - Wikipedia 05:43:50 concrete_houses: that's normal for most file systems 05:44:19 Looks like the default minfree is 8% of the total. https://bsd.to/St6q/raw 05:44:20 Title: St6q 09:15:44 rtprio: col is for filtering out reverse line feeds of nroff output. You sure this is the right one? 11:54:32 My NAS rebooted unexpectedly during a ZFS resilver, should I worry? resilver in progress since Sun Dec 4 17:01:42 2022 5.80T scanned at 532/s, 5.40T issued at 266/s, 9.39T total 1.31T resilvered, 57.48% done, no estimated completion time 12:06:33 Does resilvering looks like it's still making progress after the reboot? 12:06:46 s/looks/look/ 12:07:11 moviuro: the only thing that can affect a resilver is in the case of an URE or catastrophic hardware failure preventing mirror, raidz or ditto blocks from being used to restore the relevant data availability. 12:09:19 URE = unrecoverable error? 12:10:20 Unrecoverable Read Error, specifically. 12:10:51 *nod* 12:12:29 V_PauAmma_V: no, but all drives are new. That disk currently resilvering is the last one 12:12:41 smart data looks solid 12:15:55 <_xor> What's the current status on the freebsd.org DNS issues? 12:19:34 ISTR someone fixed them at least temporarily 3ish days ago, with an eye to a permanent solution. Do you still have problems? 12:43:32 <_xor> Seems like it, but I'll double-check. 12:43:52 * _xor just noticed his currently running poudriere build failed on a few ports @ the fetch phase 12:45:24 * V_PauAmma_V nods. 12:45:35 <_xor> Just checked the logs for a few of those ports and it seems like it might be the case (though there could be a number of factors for it, so I don't want to assume it's a freebsd.org DNS just yet) 12:46:08 <_xor> Once this build finishes I'll re-run it to try those ports again. If they succeed, then it's more likely to be a DNS issue there. 12:46:31 <_xor> rtprio: Are you using an orchestrator? 12:47:59 Ports with freebsd.org-hosted distfiles or patches, you mean? 12:49:17 <_xor> distfiles, it looks like. 12:52:00 <_xor> I'll clear up internal recursor cache here in a few and run some queries against it, see if that fixes it. 13:00:57 59.95% done, no estimated completion time # this is going to be fun 13:01:50 2.5%/hour, 40% left -> 16 hours left?... 13:07:18 guys, who use vm-bhyve, is there a way to find out which tap is assigned to vm and vice versa ? 13:48:46 anyone running a busy website without sql db on frebsd here? 13:56:14 concrete_houses, it may be better to ask your question directly instead of asking someone to self-select as competent to answer it. 14:33:31 or it may be my question hoe nicly its workin 15:26:19 that is the correct place to store the private key for a certificate on a FreeBSD host, on a Redhat based box it's notmrally /etc/pki/tls/private, what's the freeBSD mirror 15:44:10 xrdp has a pulseaudio module that creates a sink. chrome uses stdiod. I see there's a pulseaudio-module-sndio port. That port is for having pulseaudio applications talk out to a stdio attache device not the other way around? chrome talking to stdio that would go to a pulseaudio sink? 15:48:36 I'm guessing the only way to get chrome to work with xrdp audio (pulseaudio) on FreeBSD is to rebuild? 15:49:12 Apps that use/expect /dev/dsp there's padsp. 16:02:46 <_xor> ikonia: Depends on what is using it. For nginx, I generally store it either in /var/db/APP_NAME/tls.d/... or possibly in /usr/local/www/APP_NAME/tls.d/... (with webroot being something like /usr/local/www/APP_NAME/pubwww). 16:03:51 <_xor> skered: Don't know at the moment what the current chrome port supports, but depending on your output device(s), you can use virtual_oss and/or sndiod (or pulseaudio if you want). 16:05:32 <_xor> skered: Also, look at sysctl variables: hw.snd.basename_clone, hw.snd.default_auto, hw.snd_default_unit. 16:06:51 * _xor is using a USB headset with chrome+firefox without issues (no pulseaudio, sndio configured but disabled unless I need it). 16:07:21 _xor: thanks, so not really a set system path, more use case by use case 16:07:23 <_xor> If you need bluetooth, you can use virtual_oss to let it manage /dev/dsp* devices for it. 16:07:53 <_xor> Though there's blued on the way to replace some of the wonky bluetooth stack stuff. 16:08:55 <_xor> skered: Depending on your device(s), you might need to tweak some rules in /etc/devd.conf, though I've yet to run into the need for it. 16:12:18 Freebsd 13, reading https://docs.freebsd.org/en/articles/rc-scripting/ - the init system appears to be systemV based, 16:12:19 Title: Practical rc.d scripting in BSD | FreeBSD Documentation Portal 16:12:41 is it actually systemV compatible, or is it propritary and just written in the system of a sysv 16:14:02 <_xor> ikonia: https://danielmiessler.com/blog/the-differences-between-bsd-and-system-v-unix/ 16:14:03 Title: The Differences Between BSD and System V Unix - Daniel Miessler 16:14:10 thanks 16:14:14 <_xor> Point #8 specifically. 16:15:30 that's a really nice simple to read and to the point page, thank you 16:15:43 _xor: The issue is I don't have devices. It's all virtual. 16:16:04 annoyingly it looks like I'll now have to write a pretty big update to a puppet module 16:16:26 thought I'd get away with a minor mod to systemv support that was already built in, nice doc though, thank you 16:17:24 <_xor> ikonia: `man 8 rc.subr` to use as a quick reference on functions that are available with `. /etc/rc.subr` in your rc script. 16:17:57 <_xor> ikonia: `man 8 rc` as the root page of the documentation. 16:18:30 <_xor> ikonia: https://docs.freebsd.org/en/articles/rc-scripting/ (which you already know about) as a primer. 16:18:31 Title: Practical rc.d scripting in BSD | FreeBSD Documentation Portal 16:18:40 <_xor> skered: What do you mean specifically? 16:23:40 _xor: I don't have audio devices on the host machine or at least ones that I want to output to. xrdp creates a pulse sink via it's module. so pulse apps will output to that sink. 16:24:19 Apps that use dsp I can run them via padsp to redirect those calls to the sink. 16:24:51 So with sndiod apps (chrome) I don't have any options to get it's audio to pulse. 16:25:51 Outside of rebuild chrome that is. I see there's pulseaudio-module-sndio but it seem that's one direction from pulseaudio to sndio devices (can't find any docs on it). 16:25:55 rebuilding* 16:27:34 I was trying to confirm if that was the case with that port. The project seems to be apperas to be MIA. 16:27:49 Which package provides Xlib header files? 16:28:33 iio7: libX11 16:29:01 _xor: It seems that package is a FreeBSD only thing. 16:29:37 skered, thanks. 16:32:09 oh yeah... archive.org. 16:32:34 That has the old github page for that project...yeah it's for play to stdiod. blah. 16:33:31 So I guess maybe someone needs to create the same for sndio. 16:58:45 _xor: i use puppet 16:59:08 concrete_houses: yes, i've had a busy website on frebsd 17:00:11 nerozero: ifconfig tap shows the pid that opened it; which is the bhyve process 17:09:29 rtprio, thank you so much ! 17:09:30 ls 17:09:32 oops 17:10:09 Opened by PID 16322 !!!! THANKS !!!!!! 17:10:45 vm info host will also tell you what tap it's using 17:11:33 <_xor> skered: Oh, didn't realize this is for xrdp. 17:11:40 oh ... didn't knew that 17:11:42 thank you ! 17:11:53 nerozero: 👍 17:12:39 that is really helpful ! 17:12:48 exactly what I need 17:19:23 <_xor> skered: I took notes on my previous PulseAudio setup a few years ago, but I can't seem to find them right now. 17:20:25 <_xor> skered: I'm pretty sure I remember configuring it to sink output to sndio. 17:20:40 <_xor> skered: Though I try to avoid pulseaudio best I can, it's a pita. 18:14:07 Good afternoon friends. Just installed FreeBSD 13.1 and registered my nick. I last used linux almost 12 years ago. Coming back to a more proper *nix OS now. Im here to listen, watch and learn more about this great OS 18:14:47 Well good. 18:15:15 I'm very out of date with all of this but it's slowly coming back 18:17:20 Welcome! 18:18:00 Thanks 18:18:35 i let my vm-bhyve config sit too long, now none of my vlans work 18:21:40 maybe they just collected a little dust. 18:32:13 i'm trying to remember what changed, all of the config (other virtual switches) were still there 18:32:19 just can't communicate on that vlan 18:32:28 appears to be an arp problem 18:54:08 <_xor> rtprio: I haven't used puppet in years, didn't realize it does orchestration now. 18:54:39 it might not cover all the orchestration bases 18:55:40 <_xor> I was just taking a quick look at the docs and yeah it does seem like it's mostly focused on configuration management and its being extended for orchestration. 18:56:10 <_xor> I was considering using salt alongside my consul+nomad cluster, but so far nomad templating does everything I need, so haven't had to yet. 18:57:45 <_xor> Oh, and also, I just noticed these two ports were recently introduced: https://www.freshports.org/sysutils/podman-suite & https://www.freshports.org/sysutils/ocijail 18:57:46 Title: FreshPorts -- sysutils/podman-suite: Metaport of podman and buildah toolkit 18:58:13 <_xor> :| looks like I may not need to implement my task driver after all. 19:30:39 Im using ircII for now..... it's so awful, it's beautiful 19:48:16 tail 19:51:29 RoyalYork: try weechat and/or irssi ? 19:51:36 (I prefer irssi fwiw) 19:52:37 thanks nacelle, i'll look to those. in the meantime im here 39 years in the past :) 19:56:22 irssi is from the 90s, as is ircII 20:12:45 i'll give a tri 20:13:40 *try 20:13:41 brb 20:15:43 nacelle: as is mIRC 20:21:05 nacelle: Much better, thanks 20:29:47 Do many of use cli irc clients or gui? 20:32:07 most here i suspcet cli 20:32:30 I telnet directly to the ircd and vomit RFC1459 commands. 20:32:58 amigan: that sounds like your on the bleeding edge of technology 20:33:00 :) 20:33:48 I actually used to do that back in the day, visiting grandma's with only a 33.6k. The RFC was smaller than mirc. 20:35:29 Call me old, but there is something about cli and text that keeps bringing me back. I started with Commodore 64 BBSes in the late 80s. Played MUDs in the 90s and now my kids think TikTok is the greatest thing since sliced bread 20:35:51 I miss MUDs 20:36:05 X for me is just a way to run a browser and have a ton of terminals. And occasionally use gimp. 20:36:58 Funny enough, muds are what brought me back to *nix. I have a very basic level of programming knowldge (and more time than usual now). I figured I wanted to challange myself to create a simple text based program similar to MUDs, Zork etc 20:37:52 Its funny because I'll put in a metric ton worth of effort, have this crappy game and everyone except me will be unimpressed :-D 20:37:52 That was my school project in HS. Wrote a Interactive Text Adventure in Pascal 20:38:07 Yeah, but that's how you learn 20:38:11 Exactly 20:39:10 Im teacing my kid (basic) python - adding, subtracting, intro to variables and shes sort of impressed. Shes like "wheres the pictures" 20:39:30 Hooray, us-east-2 connectivity problems and I'm dead in the water. Time to go home. 20:40:17 Ya I got work to do to.... I;ll be idling for a bit 20:45:46 amigan: Good thing most of my stuff is in Ohio ;-) 20:46:25 (AWS I assume) 20:53:01 I run "gitup ports -w 0b68a105030c4790ae0dd04d25ac764e14b70a3e" to get the latest ports collection before PHP 7.2 is removed. When I do "cd /usr/ports/php72-extensions && make install clean" I get this: "Unknown extension bcmath for PHP 72." and build doesn't start. Any idea what is the issue? I did the same for PHP 5.6 and 7.3 without issue. 20:54:47 CyberCr33p: I'm here however Im not able to assist. Maybe someone else will be available shortly 21:19:05 Erhard, yep, AWS. Looks like things are coming back. 21:19:31 rtprio: mirc is for windows "ewwww" - but i'm also guessing its old enough it could be run with wine... so whatever floats someones boat I guess. gui irc would harsh my mellow though :-) 21:24:00 * yuripv slaps nacelle around a bit with a large trout 22:11:21 Greetings! 22:11:31 I've created a disklabel with glabel(8) 22:11:35 how can I rename the disk? 22:13:06 glabel label -v mynewlabel /dev/ ? 22:16:37 rtprio: I've already done this 22:16:42 but the label I created is wrong 22:16:55 how can I change it from /dev/label/foo /dev/label/bar? 22:17:06 if I overwrite the label with a new one, will this hurt? 22:17:26 i thought it would overwrite 22:17:33 do you think or do you know? 22:17:43 I have data on the disk, don't want to find out the hard way 22:19:33 it's not something i can recall doing. try it on a test label and see 22:20:40 it looks like I can just hexedit it 22:23:31 CyberCr33p: security support for php 7.2 ended nov 2020 22:25:22 <_xor> FUZxxl: Is it zfs? 22:26:33 <_xor> Oh good lord: https://old.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/zdhtx3/lets_start/ 22:26:37 Title: Let’s start! : gaming 22:30:35 _xor: yeah 22:30:42 rtprio: that worked ... whewh 22:30:54 FUZxxl: 👍 22:30:54 <_xor> Hexediting it? 22:31:22 <_xor> I remember something about being careful with glabel on a gpt+zfs disk. 22:31:22 nah didn't find a suitable hexeditor 22:31:35 just destroyed and recreated the disk label 22:32:01 <_xor> It rebooted successfully? 22:47:10 rtprio I know but I run it inside a jail and I use backports from newer versions 22:48:58 FUZxxl: you shouldn't need a hexeditor. geom can set labels 23:11:06 meena: glabel(8) does not have a feature to change a label 23:11:27 Maybe I should file a feature request 23:12:01 there is a way to do that 23:12:06 might be via gpart or something odd 23:12:15 I asked a couple of years ago 23:12:22 it was not really clear or obvious but there is a way 23:12:26 FUZxxl: weird 23:12:44 daemon: for gpart labels, sure why not 23:12:52 but I don't think there is one for glabel(8) labels 23:13:57 'create' and 'label' in the man page look to be useful 23:14:00 more 'label' 23:14:07 daemon: which of these change an existing label? 23:14:27 looking at this command 23:14:32 it looks like you would want to do a 'clear' 23:14:34 then a 'label' 23:15:31 daemon: it is not documented that this won't destroy any data on the device 23:15:53 nope so a backup would be a good idea 23:16:01 also that destroys and recreates the device, meaning it cannot be done when there are active consumers of the label 23:16:09 so tl;dr there is no functionality to rename a label 23:16:25 did you try calling label when a label is already set 23:16:41 no 23:19:44 I believe it would fail 23:20:22 also glabel label is for ephemeral labels which I am not interested in 23:20:35 I don't like doing undocumented commands to disks containing precious data 23:27:42 FUZxxl: I feel like that is a question for hackers@ 23:28:01 hm hm 23:28:47 not sure if there's a more appropriate list 23:29:19 I'll start by writing directly to the subsystem author. 23:29:55 maybe cc fs: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-fs/2022-December/subject.html 23:29:56 Title: freebsd-fs⊙Fo 23:30:06 ok 23:30:40 who is the author 23:30:47 see glabel(8) 23:31:33 it's pjd@ 23:32:10 * meena doesn't know that guy 23:50:40 rtprio: re vm-bhyve, thanks for the advice, that's what I'll do.