04:13:15 <jb1277976_> Is there a good email client or something that i can use to read the mailing list? and all the archives?
04:14:38 <llua> neomutt
04:18:29 <jb1277976_> llua: guessing only for desktop?
04:42:35 <jb1277976_> Question. I'm reading the handbook right. And I'm reading about building world custom kernels etc.. is the default kernel good or do i need to make a custom kernel or build world?
05:10:40 <jmnbtslsQE> jb1277976_: the normal kernel is  usually fine
06:12:37 <jb1277976_> Thanks jmnbtslsQE
06:13:13 <jb1277976_> This is for anyone, i built my drivers for my printer right. i then installed cups. put the cups path in rc.conf but and i went to print a test page and nothing. i tried it twice. any ideas?
06:13:41 <jb1277976_> Is there a log i can look at?
06:14:06 <jb1277976_> stopped
06:14:06 <jb1277976_> "Filter failed"
06:14:08 <jb1277976_> ^
06:14:44 <angry_vincent> try printing with simple nc
06:14:55 <angry_vincent> ( if printer allows )
06:15:46 <angry_vincent> nc ip-adress-of-printer 9100 < file-to-print
06:15:53 <angry_vincent> 9100 is port
06:16:24 <angry_vincent> i find cups to be an abomination but i digress
08:14:46 <psionic> dsadsadas
08:15:13 <psionic> irc unbroke :D
08:15:25 <psionic> couldn't give a rats ass about the licensing get that Raspberry pi zero w support fully working so I don't have to install linsucks
08:17:28 <psionic> we should rebraind the linsucks logo from the penguin to a big stinking fat black penis and rename it to systemd-INUX
08:18:04 <psionic> ahh i just noticed it even have the word "inu" in it so we should make a shitcoin called linux-inu from it thats pretty much that pile of dogshit operating system is good for
10:07:27 <fragcula> Whats a good way to backup some system dirs? cp -r seems to skip some folders (mainly ~/.ssh and /etc/ssh)
10:07:40 <fragcula> Can't get dump working either :(
11:04:52 <NerdyMcNerdface> fragcula: For a general filesystem I suggest rsync. If the filesystem itself, like zfs, has support for snapshotting and distribution or snapshots, I'd aim for using those if applicable for your use case.
11:05:45 <NerdyMcNerdface> rsync -va <source_dir> <dest_dir> will include basically everything, including .-prefixed files and dirs
11:08:55 <NerdyMcNerdface> The skipping of /etc/ssh sounds a bit strange. I've never spotted anything in there that would be excluded by cp.
12:32:42 <grahamperrin> <koobs> "only time you need a reboot is..." <- If I'm not mistaken, very recently I found it necessary to go beyond `reboot -r` for a network-related change in `rc.conf` to take effect. NOAUTO
12:32:58 <grahamperrin> I had to, like, `shutdown -r now`
12:33:38 <yuripv> what is needed other than restarting netif and routing?
12:33:54 <Reinhilde> foof
12:34:21 <Reinhilde> yuripv, what was this about "one does not set up qmail"
12:35:20 <grahamperrin> yuripv: in retrospect, it might have been dhclient-related.
12:36:02 <grahamperrin> <https://discord.com/channels/727023752348434432/815117353616408577/1035702767748141157>, for anyone who uses Discord.
12:36:04 <VimDiesel> Title: Discord
12:36:36 <yuripv> Reinhilde: see, qmail made you misidentify the person you wanted to ask that question
12:40:30 <Reinhilde> yuripv, beep boop?
12:41:04 <Reinhilde> Ah, for Remilia as well as yourself yuripv.
16:04:32 <angry_vincent> kevans_: any updates on your dragonflybsd synth port to freebsd?
16:26:24 <poisone> щ/
16:44:52 <kevans_> angry_vincent: I haven't had time to get back to it in a while, unfortunately
16:45:07 <angry_vincent> heh :)
16:52:57 <angry_vincent> kevans_: is there any specific dragonfly things?
16:56:57 <kevans_> I don't recall much, beyond the config having dflyisms
16:57:36 <angry_vincent> i see
17:23:53 <poisone> i
17:33:51 <jb1277976_> Anyone here use neomutt?
17:48:58 <meka> jb1277976_: I do
18:51:00 <jb1277976_> meka: I want to use it because of the mailing list but I remember mitt very hard to setup. Hoe is the setup for neomutt?
18:51:19 <jb1277976_> Mutt was*
18:52:03 <meka> jb1277976_: neomutt is mutt with some features and none of them are about setup, so I would say it's the same
19:09:29 <jb1277976_> meka: Thanks
20:01:46 <jb1277976_> anyone ever seen this error when printing "stopped
20:01:46 <jb1277976_> "Filter failed"" ?
20:02:01 <jb1277976_> there are some hits on google but nothing really reated to freebsd
20:03:21 <jb1277976_> im still googleing
20:05:42 <Yukiteru> jb1277976_: error? what app??
20:06:14 <jb1277976_> here is the error log https://termbin.com/mifl
20:06:32 <jb1277976_> Yukiteru: cups main website. i added the printer then hit print test page
20:08:22 <Yukiteru> jb1277976_: ok, in that case, the error is for bad filter/driver for your printer
20:08:32 <Yukiteru> what printer model is??
20:09:46 <jb1277976_> Yukiteru: et-4760 on arch linux its the https://www.freshports.org/print/epson-inkjet-printer-escpr2/
20:09:47 <VimDiesel> Title: FreshPorts -- print/epson-inkjet-printer-escpr2: Epson Inkjet Printer Driver 2 (ESC/P-R) for Linux
20:09:50 <jb1277976_> wonder why its not working
20:10:52 <Yukiteru> jb1277976_: this filter require linuxulator
20:11:07 <jb1277976_> Yukiteru: how did you find that in the log? i need to learn how to read this stuff
20:11:55 <Yukiteru> jb1277976_: in the freshport page is indicated
20:12:00 <jb1277976_> hmm
20:12:11 <Yukiteru> jb1277976_: this package is for linuxulator https://www.freshports.org/print/linux-c7-cups-libs/
20:12:12 <VimDiesel> Title: FreshPorts -- print/linux-c7-cups-libs: Common UNIX Printing System libraries
20:12:52 <Yukiteru> install and configure linuxulator, install all dependencies in runtime, reboot system and test again
20:13:02 <Kalten> Under “Dependencies”
20:13:22 <jb1277976_> Aw
20:13:25 <Yukiteru> Kalten: correct :)
20:13:33 <jb1277976_> Nice attention to detail
20:13:47 <jb1277976_> You can tell this is my first time on a bsd :P
20:14:41 <Yukiteru> jb1277976_: not problem, work in linuxulator config and dependencies and test again
20:15:44 <jb1277976_> Yukiteru: i didn't see the linuxulator where did you get that?
20:16:27 <Kalten> I think, he means the linux emulation: https://www.freshports.org/emulators/linux-c7/
20:16:28 <VimDiesel> Title: FreshPorts -- emulators/linux-c7: Meta-port for all things CentOS 7.9.2009
20:18:38 <Kalten> https://docs.freebsd.org/en/books/handbook/linuxemu/
20:18:39 <VimDiesel> Title: Chapter 10. Linux Binary Compatibility | FreeBSD Documentation Portal
20:19:30 <Kalten> VimDiesel: twice at the same time ;-)
20:20:32 <Kalten> Ah: VimDiesel is a bot…
20:21:03 <jb1277976_> Kalten: so enable linux start it then try to print again? should i reinstall cups? and the driver for the printer?
20:25:15 <Kalten> Reinstallation will not be necessary, I think. I have allways rebooted the system after all these steps (linux_enable="YES"—see 10.2; linproc etc.—see 10.5 there)
20:34:48 <jb1277976_> So my laptop froze and i had to hard restart it by pressing the power button. i deleted printer and re-added it and it's working now
20:34:53 <jb1277976_> so wierd!
20:36:24 <Kalten> jb1277976_: hmmm: interesting. You had only mounted the linproc etc and startet the linux service by hand, and than the system got stock?
20:36:29 <Kalten> stuck?
20:37:13 <jb1277976_> something got stuck. i did su - then it said password and it froze
20:38:14 <Kalten> Interesting. Well: I hope, it will work now like a charm :-)
20:38:33 <jb1277976_> yea
20:38:44 <jb1277976_> i'm loving freebsd. been on it for a solid day
20:39:39 <Kalten> I can not even remember my beginnigs on freeBSD: it was at my university, that I do know, and IRC was part of it right in the beginning :-}
20:39:41 <jb1277976_> coming from a windows / debian / gentoo / arch background
20:40:24 <Kalten> (I am old:) DOS, Win3.* Win95, SuSE-Linux, FreeBSD
20:40:48 <jb1277976_> Kalten: remember dosshell?
20:40:49 <jb1277976_> :P
20:41:20 <Kalten> hmmmm… you mean command.com?
20:41:51 <jb1277976_> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DOS_Shell
20:41:53 <VimDiesel> Title: DOS Shell - Wikipedia
20:42:26 <Kalten> COMSPEC=command.com (Blasphemy in #freebsd)
20:42:41 <jb1277976_> lol
20:43:59 <Kalten> no, I did use nc (Northon Commander), and in Win95++ TotalCommander? in Linux/freeBSD mc (https://www.freshports.org/misc/mc/)
20:44:24 <jb1277976_> Wow you been on unix/linux like system for a long time
20:45:20 <Kalten> since 1995 using FreeBSD (in the beginningh at the university only)
20:45:28 <jb1277976_> Mate is so ugly lol
20:48:03 <Kalten> !man date
20:48:04 <VimDiesel> date(1) - display or set date and time https://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?query=date
20:50:30 <jb1277976_> Kalten: mate the desktop, im looking for a good window manager or desktop env. somethign that my wife can come to and just use. of course i have virtualbox running windows for her. need something for my self cinnamon is out of the question
20:51:10 <Kalten> https://www.freshports.org/x11-wm/fvwm3/ ;-)
20:51:11 <VimDiesel> Title: FreshPorts -- x11-wm/fvwm3: F? Virtual Window Manager
20:52:03 <Kalten> Well to configure, but not easy to configure. I like fvwm, but many do not.
20:52:13 <Kalten> KDE maybe?
20:53:15 <jb1277976_> haven't given kde a second thought since the 90's when it sucked hard  0_o
20:53:30 <jb1277976_> or early 20's
20:53:45 <vkarlsen> There've been some changes since then
20:54:35 <jb1277976_> yea the youtube videos of kde look really nice
20:54:40 <Kalten> https://www.freshports.org/x11/kde5/
20:54:41 <VimDiesel> Title: FreshPorts -- x11/kde5: KDE Plasma Desktop and Applications (current)
20:54:57 <jb1277976_> i'll give it  a shot
20:55:03 <Kalten> I think, that one could be the latest?
21:03:49 <jb1277976_> looks complicated lol
21:06:02 <jb1277976_> The process will require 4 GiB more space. 2 GiB to be downloaded
21:06:33 <Kalten> KDE allways was and allways will be huge!
21:06:56 <Kalten> But fvwm is not to everyones taste :-)
21:09:40 <V_PauAmma_V> There are solutions in-between those. Just sayin. :-)
21:10:22 <Kalten> ;-)
21:11:16 <Kalten> https://www.freshports.org/x11-wm/
21:11:17 <VimDiesel> Title: FreshPorts -- x11-wm
21:18:31 <Kalten> I think, some people liked
21:18:32 <Kalten>  https://www.freshports.org/x11-wm/afterstep/
21:18:33 <Kalten>  https://www.freshports.org/x11-wm/enlightenment/
21:18:33 <VimDiesel> Title: FreshPorts -- x11-wm/afterstep: Window manager originally based on the Bowman NeXTstep clone
21:18:33 <Kalten> https://www.freshports.org/x11-wm/fluxbox/
21:18:34 <Kalten> https://www.freshports.org/x11-wm/fvwm3/
21:18:34 <Kalten> https://www.freshports.org/x11-wm/windowmaker/
21:18:34 <VimDiesel> Title: FreshPorts -- x11-wm/enlightenment: Artistic and fast X window manager
21:18:35 <Kalten> https://www.freshports.org/x11-wm/xfce4/
21:18:36 <VimDiesel> Title: FreshPorts -- x11-wm/fluxbox: Small and fast window manager based on BlackBox
21:18:37 <VimDiesel> Title: FreshPorts -- x11-wm/fvwm3: F? Virtual Window Manager
21:18:38 <VimDiesel> Title: FreshPorts -- x11-wm/windowmaker: GNUstep-compliant NeXTstep window manager clone
21:18:39 <VimDiesel> Title: FreshPorts -- x11-wm/xfce4: Meta-port for the Xfce Desktop Environment
21:20:00 <jb1277976_> Thanks  Kalten
21:28:49 <debdrup> Use a pastebin.
21:39:21 <koobs> morning
21:40:04 <koobs> grahamperrin: re network related change, try service netif restart next time
21:40:20 <koobs> it 'should' be addressing all network related changes (modulo loader changes)
21:40:38 <koobs> ive seen it bork in certain states with respect to dhcp leases/etc
21:40:45 <koobs> but, it should work the majority of the time
21:40:55 <koobs> and if not, and its possible (at runtime), its a bug
21:41:21 <grahamperrin> `service netif restart` rarely works for me. I usually find myself using some weird combination that involves deprecated /etc/netstart
21:42:31 <grahamperrin> I don't doubt that networking is great for Netflix and many other use cases, but for me it's probably the worst aspect of FreeBSD.
21:43:11 * grahamperrin used Macs for decades prior to anything FreeBSD-based. 
21:49:38 <jb1277976_> Sup  koobs
21:50:34 <koobs> jb1277976_: how are you
21:50:49 <koobs> grahamperrin: would be good know how/when/where/why it doesnt work
21:51:29 <koobs> 'raw' networking is fine, its our level of integration/polish/qol/ux for networking that isnt fantastic
22:01:39 <yuripv> OTOH, if you'll even try to suggest some kind of persistence and "better" UI, you'll get beaten on the mailing lists, so it stays the way it is :)
22:13:17 <jb1277976_> koobs: we talked about this but didn't get it. If I'm on current and I see something get fixed via bug website and they pushed it to the repos I can download or pull from gif or pkg install it and I will have that fix right?
22:13:41 <jb1277976_> Are pkg and ports updated together or separate?
22:25:26 <yooey> I'm relatively new to FreeBSD. How do I set up paths for my shell?
22:26:22 <yooey> I'm having trouble getting pip to work correctly
22:35:51 <koobs> jb1277976_: you would update current (src), and build kernel and/or world
22:35:57 <koobs> depending on where the change was localized to
22:36:11 <koobs> you can often just rebuild/reinstall isolated components only
22:36:21 <koobs> jb1277976_: packages are build *from* ports
22:36:44 <koobs> ports get changes, packages are rebuilt on a certain cadence
22:37:02 <koobs> for latest branch, its usually an increment every couple of days (building only port updates since last build)
22:37:09 <koobs> quarterly is less frequent i believe
22:37:14 <koobs> quarterly (packages)
22:37:28 <koobs> yooey: heya, going to need more info to help :)
22:38:11 <koobs> yooey: nothing special for PATH setup for your user/profile/shells
22:38:15 <koobs> whats the issue?
22:39:44 <yooey> I want to add a directory to my path but I don't know how the shell in freebsd works or what file to edit to do this
22:39:59 <yooey> I just know its not bash so I assume it doesnt work like bash
22:40:19 <koobs> broadly speaking, there's nothing freebsd specific (beyond posix'ey stuff), so .profile files, shell startup files (.zshrc for example) which are shell dependent
22:40:40 <Kalten> whos schell? root? the system itself? your own?
22:40:49 <yooey> my user
22:41:08 <rwp> yooey, What does this say?  echo $0
22:41:33 <yooey> sh
22:41:39 <yooey> im using the default shell
22:41:40 <Kalten> there are multiple shells. which one is yours? You could use “chsh” to see it
22:42:08 <rwp> If using sh then put PATH=$PATH:/whateveryouwanttoadd into the .profile file.
22:42:21 <skered> Can you do nfsv4 with zfs-share/zfsprops sharenfs?
22:42:22 <Kalten> you can find it /etc/passwd too
22:42:33 <rwp> PATH is always an exported variable and does not need to be explicitly exported.
22:42:51 <rwp> After doing this source the file to load the new value.  . ./.profile
22:43:02 <rwp> The next time you log out and log back in again it will take effect.
22:43:19 <rwp> yooey, Are you running X? Or is this on the text vt console?
22:43:20 <koobs> yooey: whats the issue with pip, and are you using ports/packages pip, or pip from pypi in --user or virtualenv?
22:43:40 <yooey> I'm running X and using xterm
22:43:56 <yooey> its installing packages in a folder thats not in path, this should fix the problem
22:44:03 <rwp> What window manager?  Something like XFCE?
22:44:10 <yooey> WindowMaker
22:44:33 <rwp> How do you start X?  "exec xinit"?  Or do you log into an X Display Manager?
22:44:38 <koobs> yooey: with venvs/virtualenvwrapper PATH/PYTHONPATH is handled transprently, which motivates my questions
22:44:43 <yooey> just with startx
22:45:09 <rwp> Then what I said about .profile will be okay.  If logging in with an xdm then that PATH setting also needs to go into ~/.xsessionrc file too.
22:45:15 <yooey> I am using pip from packages
22:45:26 <koobs> yooey: and your pip command, as --user or #/root ?
22:45:36 <yooey> ill remember that last part for whever i stop being too lazy to configure xdm
22:45:46 <koobs> yooey: whats the thing thats not 'seeing' the things at the path you want, and whats the path you want it to see ?
22:46:40 <yooey> ~/.local/bin
22:47:25 <koobs> are you installing stuff there with pip --user (or venv/venvwrapper), or is that path 'custom' / manually setup ?
22:47:45 <koobs> yooey: and what/where is the python thing not seeing the thing in ~/.local/bin ?
22:48:38 <yooey> im just using pip install packagename
22:49:05 <koobs> yooey:  as root or user?
22:49:08 <yooey> as my local user
22:49:13 <koobs> gotcha
22:49:17 <yooey> not root cuz thats bad
22:49:21 <koobs> quite :)
22:49:35 <koobs> So what youll want to do is venv/virtualenvwrapper to create venvs that inherit from system site packages
22:49:42 <koobs> so that the venvs inherit (see) system packages
22:49:46 <yooey> I added what i needed to my path, do i need to log out ad log i again
22:49:47 <koobs> and you dont need to do the PATH hacks
22:49:59 <koobs> you can either resource the profile/shell startup, or login again
22:54:24 <jb1277976_> koobs: I got ports set to the latest out pkg one of them
22:55:27 <yooey> It worked
22:55:49 <yooey> Yeah that was as straightforward as I expected it to be but I wasn't sure if there were any gotchas
22:56:00 <koobs> yooey: https://virtualenvwrapper.readthedocs.io/en/latest/ -> installed via: https://www.freshports.org/devel/py-virtualenvwrapper/
22:56:01 <VimDiesel> Title: virtualenvwrapper 4.8.5.dev15 — virtualenvwrapper 4.8.5.dev15 documentation
22:56:05 <koobs> there's lots of gotchas
22:56:12 <koobs> and pain :)
22:56:23 <yooey> there are worse things
22:56:31 <yooey> I've had much much much more pain on NetBSD
22:56:32 <koobs> and its not a freebsd thing, its a PATH/python/import thing
22:56:40 <yooey> no offese to NetBSD
22:57:14 <koobs> If/when youre ready or have questions or need help setting up standard ways (to ebenfit from system packaging, whilst also doing what python ecosystem wants you to do for good UX/DX), hit us up in #freebsd-python
22:57:23 <koobs> <-- freebsd/python team, so hit us up anytime
22:58:54 <yooey> I appreciate the informatio
23:03:32 <yooey> I appreciate the help
23:05:28 <rwp> I find it annoying that python now simply assumes that PATH contains ~/.local/bin as a standard by fete accompli.
23:19:50 <jb1277976_> So I do need to build world once in a while or when new things get implemented
23:29:21 <koobs> jb1277976_: operating systems dont update themselves, but youre not required to update
23:29:49 <koobs> but generally, one wants to (at some cadence suitable to you), falling too far behind (~months+) can make upgrades harder